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Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:21:26 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I had a long talk with a friend about how to pay for health care in the U.S.
This friend has friends in Canada, that LOVE the single payer system, and she knows
quite a bit about the single payer system.
She feels that Universal Health Care will not be worth it or even worthwhile, UNLESS we
adopt the Single Payer Health Care System.  

I have read about the single payer system and it seems to be a very, viable and many the only logical option for health care in the U.S.

I wanted to start this thread to get thoughts on what you think the advantages/disadvantages are of a Single Payer Option.
If you want to debate whether you are for or against health care we already have a thread on that.

I think the Single Payer option would be great for the U.S., and I would like to see this on the table, because for now, it does not appear to be an option.
Why not put the Single Payer option on the table?

What is Single Payer? | Physicians for a National Health Program

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/29/2009 2:37:48 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:25:12 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		What do you perceive as problems with the current system, and how does single payer resolve them?

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:27:17 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Just the name 'single payer' is basically a fraud. 45% of Americans pay NO federal taxes. Those folks will not be paying a dime for their insurance. Small businesses and the rest of us will be picking up the tab. When everyone starts paying something, or anything, I might go along with you. I am tired of free loaders in this country thinking health care is free.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:32:56 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What do you perceive as problems with the current system, and how does single payer resolve them?


LOL, I see a lot of problems with the current system.
 
A few immediate benefits of using the Single Payer Option are:
 
Universal Health Care for all Americans!!!! Imagine that!
All health care agencies would bill the same agency for their services.
More fixed care costs, and the ability to keep health care costs down.
Less administrative costs, less endless paperwork, and a more stream lined system. 
Most people would pay less for their health care than they do now.

These are 5 reasons, I am sure there are at least 20 more.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/29/2009 2:34:30 PM >

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To Each His/Her Own
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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:39:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What do you perceive as problems with the current system, and how does single payer resolve them?


LOL, I see a lot of problems with the current system.
 
A few immediate benefits of using the Single Payer Option are:
 
Universal Health Care for all Americans!!!! Imagine that!
All health care agencies would bill the same agency for their services.
More fixed care costs, and the ability to keep health care costs down.
Less administrative costs, less endless paperwork, and a more stream lined system. 
Most people would pay less for their health care than they do now.

These are 5 reasons, I am sure there are at least 20 more.


You dont need a single payer to have universal health care.

What if the "single payer" isn't capable of handling the payments efficiently?

Keeping costs for actual services down has nothing to do with single payer, unless there are wage and price controls. That guarantees a trade off between keeping costs down and quality.

The last two points are redundant with prior points that were already invalid.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:44:52 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
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Status: offline 		Many of the current problems with the current health care system, are redundant.
 
I really did not expect YOU to be in favor of the Single Payer System, but I prefer
it over what is currently being suggested.

Thanks for keeping an open mind!

_____________________________

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:46:44 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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We could make the fat pay for it, even levy exhorbitant taxes against anything and everything thats at all risky... such as riding bicycles or scooters... or jogging, or mountain climbing, or swimming anywhere theres isn't a licensed lifeguard. Or owning private swimming pools. Make everything perfectly safe, and have enforcers tazering anyones private parts who fails to comply with all the new government health-safety rules and regulations.

Because after all, everyones health would affect the public budget (and therefore well being) under such a single payer system.

Right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just the name 'single payer' is basically a fraud. 45% of Americans pay NO federal taxes. Those folks will not be paying a dime for their insurance. Small businesses and the rest of us will be picking up the tab. When everyone starts paying something, or anything, I might go along with you. I am tired of free loaders in this country thinking health care is free.


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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 2:54:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Many of the current problems with the current health care system, are redundant.
 
I really did not expect YOU to be in favor of the Single Payer System, but I prefer
it over what is currently being suggested.

Thanks for keeping an open mind!


The point is that single payer doesnt address any of the issues you cite as being a problem.

Come up with something new and my mind is totally open, such as my post about a clinic model for covering the un/under insured (due to need). There is nothing about single payer that is new or unique.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 3:07:50 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		I'm with you, Mia. Even Obama admitted it in his speech last week when he made the comment about how the health care plan on the table wouldn't cover every American, because the only way to do that was with a Single-Payer plan.

The only reason -not- to consider a single-payer plan is because the poor insurance companies, big-money pharma, and the for-profit sickness centers won't be raking in the big bucks any more. Every other civilized nation on the planet has figured this out. You tell -me- what that means about Americans.

How do we pay for it? Add a 4% flat, pre-deduction tax on every single American bringing in an income to the existing Medicare tax -- it will STILL be less than what most of us are paying in premiums, co-pays, cost-shares, and non-covered or under-covered costs. Heck, a 10% tax a year would still be cheaper than what I've paid in out-of-pocket/premiums/co-pays for the past 3 years!

Completely disgusted with the whole mess...
Dame Calla

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 3:40:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I'm with you, Mia. Even Obama admitted it in his speech last week when he made the comment about how the health care plan on the table wouldn't cover every American, because the only way to do that was with a Single-Payer plan.

The only reason -not- to consider a single-payer plan is because the poor insurance companies, big-money pharma, and the for-profit sickness centers won't be raking in the big bucks any more. Every other civilized nation on the planet has figured this out. You tell -me- what that means about Americans.

How do we pay for it? Add a 4% flat, pre-deduction tax on every single American bringing in an income to the existing Medicare tax -- it will STILL be less than what most of us are paying in premiums, co-pays, cost-shares, and non-covered or under-covered costs. Heck, a 10% tax a year would still be cheaper than what I've paid in out-of-pocket/premiums/co-pays for the past 3 years!

Completely disgusted with the whole mess...
Dame Calla


At least you are honest and admitting that what you really want is a handout.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 3:49:43 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

At least you are honest and admitting that what you really want is a handout.


So whats wrong with helping those less well off with health care ?

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:16:29 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

At least you are honest and admitting that what you really want is a handout.


So whats wrong with helping those less well off with health care ?


Nothing if its on a voluntary basis. On a mandatory taxation basis or deficit spending bases, no matter how much the Keynesians want to stamp their feet, it will have a deleterious effect on the economy or on the level of health care provided.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/29/2009 4:17:07 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:20:29 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
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Status: offline 		Executive compensation compared to average (weighted to a company size):

CEOs in the computer and software industry receive 39% more total compensation

CEOs in the pharmaceutical/biotech industry also receive 39% more total compensation
 
CEOs in the diversified finance industry (mainly, Wall Street firms) receive 61 % more total compensation

And now for our big winner.........CEOs in the HMO/Healthcare-industry-receive-66%- more total compensation

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:25:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Awmslave, what has that got to do with helping the less fortunate.

Willbeurdaddy, what gets me is I never see anyone who moans about paying mandatory taxes for a health system for all, moan about mandatory taxes for unused star war systems ect. Whats more important ?

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:29:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Awmslave, what has that got to do with helping the less fortunate.

Willbeurdaddy, what gets me is I never see anyone who moans about paying mandatory taxes for a health system for all, moan about mandatory taxes for unused star war systems ect. Whats more important ?



Right now, neither one. Long term...advancement of defense systems. National defense is the role of the Federal government, health care isn't.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:36:25 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Your answer is subjective, many think health care is the reponsibility of the government. Why should those that are against spending on military projects, not be afforded the same right not pay for them, as you suggest about health funding.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 4:53:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Your answer is subjective, many think health care is the reponsibility of the government. Why should those that are against spending on military projects, not be afforded the same right not pay for them, as you suggest about health funding.


I didnt suggest any such thing. No one should be afforded the right to not pay for national defense, and no one should be forced to pay for health care. National defense is in the Constitution, paying for or providing for health care isn't. That isn't subjective, thats the plain language of the Constitution. What is subjective is the interpretations that funding a fucking miniature golf course and other bastardizations of what is clear except to activists who want the Constitution to say whatever pleases them.


http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/newsextra/2009/July/Health-Care-and-the-Constitution/



"And so, Madison here clarifies that the “general welfare” clause holds no power outside of the specific items government is given power, in the Constitution, to control and regulate. Thomas Jefferson likewise agreed:

[O]ur tenet ever was, and, indeed, it is almost the only landmark which now divides the federalists from the republicans, that Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. (Thomas Jefferson, via Quoty)

The government, then, is not authorized to collect taxes nor enforce the redistribution of wealth (when applied to the modern definition of “welfare”) unless the object of their desire is found in the powers enumerated unto them. Such limited powers is a hallmark of a Republican government, as Madison stated


< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/29/2009 5:06:00 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:05:12 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I'm with you, Mia. Even Obama admitted it in his speech last week when he made the comment about how the health care plan on the table wouldn't cover every American, because the only way to do that was with a Single-Payer plan.

The only reason -not- to consider a single-payer plan is because the poor insurance companies, big-money pharma, and the for-profit sickness centers won't be raking in the big bucks any more. Every other civilized nation on the planet has figured this out. You tell -me- what that means about Americans.

How do we pay for it? Add a 4% flat, pre-deduction tax on every single American bringing in an income to the existing Medicare tax -- it will STILL be less than what most of us are paying in premiums, co-pays, cost-shares, and non-covered or under-covered costs. Heck, a 10% tax a year would still be cheaper than what I've paid in out-of-pocket/premiums/co-pays for the past 3 years!

Completely disgusted with the whole mess...
Dame Calla


You hit the nail on the head Dame Calla.
I really feel the Obama Administration does not want to take on big money pharma, the insurance companies, and the for profits, for a variety of reasons.
That is one reason the health care policies that are on the table, don't fully add up to many of us.
 
Until and unless we DO take them on, I don't think we will ever get real Universal Health Care in America.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:07:07 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just the name 'single payer' is basically a fraud. 45% of Americans pay NO federal taxes. Those folks will not be paying a dime for their insurance. Small businesses and the rest of us will be picking up the tab. When everyone starts paying something, or anything, I might go along with you. I am tired of free loaders in this country thinking health care is free.
Servant who do you think is picking up the tab now...these people,under the current system are using the for profit, fee for service system..the cost is being passed onto us as it is,E R visits and unpaid bills are simply figured into your costs..Remove the profit motive and all would recieve better service .I am tired of the Insurance company treating the health of Americans as just another opportunity to make a buck.Somethings shouldn't be for sale.....basic health care is one of them.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 7/29/2009 5:09:08 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:08:37 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia


You hit the nail on the head Dame Calla.
I really feel the Obama Administration does not want to take on big money pharma, the insurance companies, and the for profits, for a variety of reasons.
That is one reason the health care policies that are on the table, don't fully add up to many of us.
 
Until and unless we DO take them on, I don't think we will ever get real Universal Health Care in America.



No, he DOES want to take them on....they are the very reason health care has progressed so rapidly in the last 120 years and he wants to stifle it.

(in reply to MzMia)
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