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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:10:52 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

Awmslave, what has that got to do with helping the less fortunate.

Willbeurdaddy, what gets me is I never see anyone who moans about paying mandatory taxes for a health system for all, moan about mandatory taxes for unused star war systems ect. Whats more important ?


US spends about twice (per capita) on health care compared to other industrial nations. There are more than enough funds spent in the system today to provide quality care to everybody. The question is where the resources go? Single payer system for basic care would make it possible to control prices.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:17:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

Awmslave, what has that got to do with helping the less fortunate.

Willbeurdaddy, what gets me is I never see anyone who moans about paying mandatory taxes for a health system for all, moan about mandatory taxes for unused star war systems ect. Whats more important ?


US spends about twice (per capita) on health care compared to other industrial nations. There are more than enough funds spent in the system today to provide quality care to everybody. The question is where the resources go? Single payer system for basic care would make it possible to control prices.



There are two questions...where the resources go, and who provides the resources. In any other commodity it is the person who provides the resources that determines where the resources go . Health care shouldnt be any different.

Single payer does not make it possible to control prices without either rationing or decrease in overall quality. Laws don't repeal the laws of economics. Only the market can efficiently allocate resources.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:19:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		we have a single payer system already in effect

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:24:28 PM   
MzMia


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Status: offline 		Then a lot of this is coming down to pure profit.
I guess we dare not disturb anyone's "profit margin", or
try to lower some of the sky rocketing prices involved in health care.

Health care is just another business right?
We don't want to rock anyone's bottom line {cut their profits}.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/29/2009 5:29:04 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:25:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

we have a single payer system already in effect


If you're referring to Medicare, it isnt truly single payer, and it only supports my point on inefficiencies in the payment process, since Medicare has higher per claim processing costs than the private sector.

If you're referring to something else, please clarify.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 5:48:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		TRICARE, formerly known as the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Uniformed Services (CHAMPUS), is a health care program of the United States Department of Defense Military Health System.[1] TRICARE provides civilian health benefits for military personnel, military retirees, and their dependents, including some members of the Reserve Component. The TRICARE program is managed by TRICARE Management Activity (TMA) under the authority of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs). TRICARE is the civilian care component of the Military Health System, although historically it also included health care delivered in the military medical treatment facilities. TRICARE operates as a single-payer health care system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRICARE

a system i am very familiar with, though, when i was under it, it was known as Champus

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:12:28 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Id like to interject a question here.... why are there such a large number of people in the US not paying any taxes? 45%? thats bloody enormous 

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:19:21 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

TRICARE, formerly known as the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Uniformed Services (CHAMPUS), is a health care program of the United States Department of Defense Military Health System.[1] TRICARE provides civilian health benefits for military personnel, military retirees, and their dependents, including some members of the Reserve Component. The TRICARE program is managed by TRICARE Management Activity (TMA) under the authority of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs). TRICARE is the civilian care component of the Military Health System, although historically it also included health care delivered in the military medical treatment facilities. TRICARE operates as a single-payer health care system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRICARE

a system i am very familiar with, though, when i was under it, it was known as Champus


Actually, I am as well (though it was also CHAMPUS when I was using it as well). 13 years (and three children) as a military dependent, and the system worked great for us. I even had my knee replacement surgery (shattered in an accident) done by an outstanding private orthopedic surgeon when the ortho clinic on post couldn't schedule me due to having -way- too many active-duty service members to see. I'd forgotten about this.

Dame Calla

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:29:51 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Its not perfect, sometimes some services can be limited. but, for emergent care, its wonderful. no, they dont pay for plastic surgery, boob jobs, ect. but they do pay for health care. there is a deductible. there are also allowable costs, the insured doesnt pay above these. now, if i could get on it, i would, even if i had to pay.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:30:35 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Id like to interject a question here.... why are there such a large number of people in the US not paying any taxes? 45%? thats bloody enormous 


Primarily because their income levels are too low (below the income tax threshold).


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:31:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Id like to interject a question here.... why are there such a large number of people in the US not paying any taxes? 45%? thats bloody enormous 


i believe he said they dont pay federal taxes. im going to say he meant income taxes. that many are at or below the poverty level. taxes here are confusing... and im gonna upset a few by saying... i would love to see what a flat tax could do for this country.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:38:29 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia


You hit the nail on the head Dame Calla.
I really feel the Obama Administration does not want to take on big money pharma, the insurance companies, and the for profits, for a variety of reasons.
That is one reason the health care policies that are on the table, don't fully add up to many of us.
 
Until and unless we DO take them on, I don't think we will ever get real Universal Health Care in America.



No, he DOES want to take them on....they are the very reason health care has progressed so rapidly in the last 120 years and he wants to stifle it.


Yes, health care has been blazing along with amazing speed. Why it was just recently, back in 1953 when we saw the last cure for a catastrophic disease... polio.

I wonder if another medical cash cow will ever be allowed to be killed again in my lifetime.




< Message edited by subfever -- 7/29/2009 6:40:24 PM >

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 6:44:16 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		Come on, people, stop behaving exactly the way the elite want you to behave. Let's stop looking to treat symptoms with bigger and better band-aids, and start focusing on the source of the problem.


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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:00:38 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are two questions...where the resources go, and who provides the resources. In any other commodity it is the person who provides the resources that determines where the resources go . Health care shouldnt be any different.


Which is where the problem lies.

Do we want to define health care as a commodity?

Something traded and sold for profit?

Do we want to decide who lives and who dies based on their profitability?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:03:46 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		You're still not addressing the source of the problem.

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:05:47 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Thank you Subfever and Tazzy, 

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RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:07:46 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are two questions...where the resources go, and who provides the resources. In any other commodity it is the person who provides the resources that determines where the resources go . Health care shouldnt be any different.


Which is where the problem lies.

Do we want to define health care as a commodity?

Something traded and sold for profit?

Do we want to decide who lives and who dies based on their profitability?



This is at the heart of this whole health care debate.
The main issue's appear to be:
*WHO is going to pay for it and
*WILL/CAN we dare take away profits from big Pharm, the insurance companies, non-profit,
and anyone that makes money/profits from the health care industry.


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:10:20 PM   
subfever


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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

This is at the heart of this whole health care debate.
The main issue's appear to be:
*WHO is going to pay for it and
*WILL/CAN we dare take away profits from big Pharm, the insurance companies, non-profit,
and anyone that makes money/profits from the health care industry.


No, it's not the heart.

Millions of people cannot pay for their own health care. Millions of others don't want the burden on their backs.

Come on now... what's the source of the problem?

< Message edited by subfever -- 7/29/2009 7:14:41 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:10:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

You're still not addressing the source of the problem.


humor me. what do you see as the source of the problem. and what are your solutions.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Why not get the Single Payer Health Care System? - 7/29/2009 7:14:19 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I really feel the Obama Administration does not want to take on big money pharma, the insurance companies, and the for profits, for a variety of reasons.
That is one reason the health care policies that are on the table, don't fully add up to many of us.



Unfortunately, one of those reasons is the health care industry employs a lot of people and is an important revenue -generating segment of the economy.

Any change has to be gradual or it will hit the economy like the mortgage crisis.


(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 40
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