quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

tazzy, it is funny, when my mom had me a tad over 40 years ago, they kept her
in the hospital at least 10 days.

Wait a minute.... your profile says your 96. You been puttin' us on?

Anyway, your example doesn't prove anything. They probably kept your mother as long as possible because they knew she'd probably want to take you with her when she went home, and they couldn't stand to let such an adorable baby leave. That's how that happened.

quote:

dont you think its time we stopped playing "blame the party", grew a set of balls as a nation and get this thing fixed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

dont you think its time we stopped playing "blame the party", grew a set of balls as a nation and get this thing fixed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Perhaps if the Democratic Party could grow some balls and find some unity...

quote:

Like George bush answered anybody's questions. Even when he did they only put him in front of friendly Republican crowds.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

"what are the details of this health plan you want us to support?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I didnt ask you to acknowledge that Cost/QALY is used, I asked you to contribute something meaningful to the discussion about their ethics/efficacy/implementation. If youve got nothing to say, say nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Nope. And since it doesnt happen, shouldnt be a concern. And if you really believe that insurance companies have "incentives to deny legitimate payments", then you don't understand the insurance business...or any other business for that matter.

OK, then why have some states felt it necessary to pass laws prohibiting the practice? I suppose we are expected to take your word over all those below?

http://www.statesurge.com/bills/462492-sb09-103-colorado
http://www.abourezklaw.com/bfl-13.html
http://www.housedems.com/videos/simpson-wrongful-denial-pc
http://www.atlanet.org/resources/InsuranceTactics.pdf
http://law-wi.blogspot.com/search?q=farmers
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0071.htm
http://www.kentuckyinjuryattorneyblog.com/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?search=employee+incentive&IncludeBlogs=29&search=
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/blog/2008/01/farmers-insurance-urged-employees-to.html

I think that should establish that such practices exist, despite your pronouncement from on high to the contrary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Again, overpayments are far more frequent then underpayments in the hundreds of claim audits as the office of my former employer I worked out of showed.

Convenient, proof positive that cannot actually be cross-checked. Sorry willbuer, but I may accept such an assertion from some posters, not from you, you have a habit of stating "facts" without providing any back-up. And when those "facts" are checked they turn out to be incorrect most of the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

And therefore I take it that you believe the government should not have that power also.

It doesn't have to, even under a universal government run single=payer system. You keep saying that it will happen, but you ignore the various examples around the world where it doesn't happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

What is Steven Hawkings' QALY? I think he would tell you that as long as he can think, then his personal assessment of his QALY is 1, but under QALY or Euroquol it sure as hell isn't. So at 67, and a low QALY score, should he be denied a more expensive ALS drug?

Interesting choice of example. Hawking lives in England, and his health care is through the dreaded NHS, which according to you doesn't treat people like him.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I didnt ask you to acknowledge that Cost/QALY is used, I asked you to contribute something meaningful to the discussion about their ethics/efficacy/implementation. If youve got nothing to say, say nothing.

Ive told you what they are used for once. Ive explained your example was bogus, and why. Just to humour you though, I feel the use of cost analysis/qaly to determine what drugs/treatments are cost effective is reasonable. Age, despite your claim, isnt a barrier to treatment, as shown by the following NHS Standard. Please note is says "On clinical need ALONE"  If you have proof saying otherwise I would like to see it.


"NHS services will be provided, regardless of age, on the basis of clinical need alone. Social care services will not use age in their eligibility criteria or policies, to restrict access to available services."

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I didnt ask you to acknowledge that Cost/QALY is used, I asked you to contribute something meaningful to the discussion about their ethics/efficacy/implementation. If youve got nothing to say, say nothing.

Ive told you what they are used for once. Ive explained your example was bogus, and why. Just to humour you though, I feel the use of cost analysis/qaly to determine what drugs/treatments are cost effective is reasonable. Age, despite your claim, isnt a barrier to treatment, as shown by the following NHS Standard. Please note is says "On clinical need ALONE"  If you have proof saying otherwise I would like to see it.


"NHS services will be provided, regardless of age, on the basis of clinical need alone. Social care services will not use age in their eligibility criteria or policies, to restrict access to available services."

LMAO. You do understand that cost/QALY, without directly referencing age, incorporates it? When you use QALY you dont need to use age.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I didnt ask you to acknowledge that Cost/QALY is used, I asked you to contribute something meaningful to the discussion about their ethics/efficacy/implementation. If youve got nothing to say, say nothing.

Ive told you what they are used for once. Ive explained your example was bogus, and why. Just to humour you though, I feel the use of cost analysis/qaly to determine what drugs/treatments are cost effective is reasonable. Age, despite your claim, isnt a barrier to treatment, as shown by the following NHS Standard. Please note is says "On clinical need ALONE"  If you have proof saying otherwise I would like to see it.


"NHS services will be provided, regardless of age, on the basis of clinical need alone. Social care services will not use age in their eligibility criteria or policies, to restrict access to available services."

LMAO. You do understand that cost/QALY, without directly referencing age, incorporates it? When you use QALY you dont need to use age.

You used age in your example, forgive me for following your lead. I dont suppose you could stop lmao at me and actually back up your claims ? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Nowhere in my example did I use age, so you can apologize for yet another lie about what I said.

However that is irrelevant to your "NHS policy post". The point is that once you have cost/QALY as a criterion, you no longer need to mention age as a criterion. The extension of years of life available from a procedure is obviously highly dependent on age.

US non-discrimination law recognizes that you don't have to directly reference someones age in a policy for that to be the result of a policy, thus requiring demonstration that a criterion is not simply a proxy for age. For the policy you posted to have any teeth whatsover with regard to age it would need to specify "age or any other criterion which directly or indirectly incorporates age". Goodbye cost/QALY.

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Yours.
If youre expected to live 40 more years, no problem, if youre expected to live 5 more years, problem.