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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/9/2009 8:28:52 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

Yeah, no shit. Still, I have to wonder if your ass is chapped on behalf of those poor newbs for being isolated by predator Doms.... or if it is the fact that "under protection" in a profile might just mean that some D is cock blocking you from putting your own moves on said newbs. Given your posts in this thread, I suspect the latter. Hardly a noble motive in my book, but that's just me.


WydHrt,

Though I doubt that you would or could put any effort into it, you would find yourself disappointed in finding any sub here on CM, Bondage, Alt, of Fetlife who could say they were hunted, pursued etc by this dominant.
It simply chaps my ass because I have been on the path long enought to recal and understand that aa effective dominant does not need to hunt. Not to dosparage those that do, for it is simply in their genes to do so.

So next time you take a bead on someone.....................................

CP

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/9/2009 8:32:39 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

LOL... CP, I doubt much confuses you and you know that I was just using a TOS example rather than refer to an actual person or profile.


eyes,

Laughs, Well thast used to be true but as one reaches Dominant Emeritus things can get fuzzy.

CP

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/9/2009 8:58:28 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


Now who's the one that's not "reading"???  Here's what I wrote:

I find it incredible that you can't understand the difference between "a Dom deciding what's best for THEIR sub" versus "a Dom deciding what's best for A sub". 

So your reply of, "NEVER in my post did I ever imply that I would decide what's best for someone else's sub" makes no sense.  This thread is NOT about "Protecting" one that's owned by someone else, but about one that's unattached. 



Actually, you conveniently neglected to include the sentence AFTER.  Let me give it for you.

"The difference is between one that's owned by another versus one that's not."

You clearly stated that I could not differentiate between an unowned sub and one owned by someone else.  I consider that to be a personal attack on me and have no idea why you shose to make it.

So far, MSLA, in this one thread, you have accused me of using collars of protection to fuck subs, of making decisions for unowned subs without their consent, and for making decisions for others' subs without their or their owners' consent.  You have accomplished this by taking my quotes clearly out of consequence, or reading your own words into mine. 

And you've tried to weasel out of your accusations by misquoting, as above, and implied that I am sole arbiter of who they will have relationships with. 

I'm done with this thread.  I'm tired of being accused of random stuff from you.




_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/9/2009 9:58:52 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

"The difference is between one that's owned by another versus one that's not."



It's in line with my example... of "THEIR sub" (i.e., they are owned by another/someone... hence the "THEIR" part) versus "A sub" (not owned).  Read what I'd written again. You misunderstood.


< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 8/9/2009 9:59:30 PM >


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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/11/2009 7:04:47 PM   
kallisto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

To be concise, this just chaps my ass!

What does it mean to you?

CP


I know there are many replies to this.   And in fact, it was a discussion piece last night with a Dom and then again in conversation with a sub friend tonight.   Although my opinion didn't change with either discussion.    I feel "under protection" is simply a line of BS.   It's just my opinion, but I do feel that it's just a way of a Dom keeping a sub to himself without much committment.     I often wonder "protection" from what.   I don't see it as a right or wrong thing, just simply one that I don't understand.    I feel it is a way to keep her isolated from others and possibly from others' ways of thinking or gaining experience or knowledge - maybe as a way of keeping her "under his thumb".  

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/17/2009 4:56:52 AM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I know there are many replies to this. And in fact, it was a discussion piece last night with a Dom and then again in conversation with a sub friend tonight. Although my opinion didn't change with either discussion. I feel "under protection" is simply a line of BS. It's just my opinion, but I do feel that it's just a way of a Dom keeping a sub to himself without much committment. I often wonder "protection" from what. I don't see it as a right or wrong thing, just simply one that I don't understand. I feel it is a way to keep her isolated from others and possibly from others' ways of thinking or gaining experience or knowledge - maybe as a way of keeping her "under his thumb".

(in reply to CelticPrince)


kallisto,

For my part you have hit two nails on the head with one swing.......... protection from what and just keeping them in reserve I think is the main effort there.

CP

(in reply to kallisto)
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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/17/2009 5:02:23 AM   
plushiecat


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Frankly, we are all supposed to be adults here.  If a sub feels she needs to be 'protected', is this really the right life for her?  I would think a dom would want a sub that could take care of herself as well, rather than constantly having to rely on another.  There is a difference between looking to someone for help and advice versus being helpless and unable to fend for oneself.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/17/2009 5:45:55 PM   
kallisto


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quote:

kallisto,

For my part you have hit two nails on the head with one swing..........

CP


That's a feat in itself.   I usually hit my thumb and miss the one nail      

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. 

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/17/2009 6:24:32 PM   
CaringandReal


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I don't disagree with the priciple of the protection idea, but the way it is actually played out in some situations bothers me. I mentioned one or maybe two in an earlier post. Here are a couple of other possible scenarios I have observed more than once that concern me:

(1) The sub knows what sort of relationship this is but nevertheless falls in love with the protector and wants to become his slave/submissive or even his "one" slave/submissive. This is a very, very common situation. Giving up power is kind of addictive (understatement of the year). When you give up a little, such as that given up by the protectee, it can open the emotional floodgates. And guess who the emotion gets projected onto? Given that such protectors usually already have a slave(s) or reasons not to own this particular submissive, this eventually causes messes and if it doesn't leave the protectee in worse shape than she was before she met you, it may very well leave the protector in a horrible place when she decides to get revenge on him for not falling in love with her. (Yes, people who need or could really use protection are often rather irrational in that disasterous way and in many others. Handle. With. Care.)

(2) This one is more ambiguious and kind of hard to resolve. I've observed over the years that many submissives seem emotionally...young. There are a lot of personality features that go into this impression but the ones that lead them to seek out (or attract) a protector who helps them find a good mate are naievity and a difficulty in learning from certain experiences (not all experiences, but certain emotional lessons seem never to be grasped by some people, as if, like Peter Pan, they can never leave a certain stage of growth). The areas in which certain submissives don't learn are very narrow--I'm not making a sweeping generalization about all growth. Just growth about certain things, and those things do vary from submissive to submissive. But, in my experience, growth and change can and do occur if the submissive is left alone in life to cope, and learns from hard experience: Sometimes, the protector tries too hard to protect and that learning does not occur. That is Ok if the protector manages to find the submissive a good situation (suitable controlling mate who will take over for the protector) before things blow up. But if the submissive is immature and impatient and things do blow up, she's back at square one, having learned nothing. At least in the school of hard knocks, one eventually learns that if you hit B, B hits back, be it the first time or the hundreth time you get KO'd.

(3) There is a sham version of this that goes on. I did mention this in my other post but want to expand upon it. It's the thing that Celtic Prince mentioned: the brazen annoucement to all who come across a profile that this woman is UNDER SO AND SO'S PROTECTION! If you are helping someone vet responses to their personal ad, if you are sincerely helping them find a dominant partner or coaching them in how to make good decisions about this on their own, then the last thing you want the sub to do is put this fact up on a huge marquee board above her head. It immediately turns honest or potentially good dominants off (dominants want to control, and who wants to attempt to wrest control, not from a submissive but from another dominant who is "protecting" her, regarding you with suspicion, and, by implication of the protection, already controlling her in certain ways?) So you alienate the best prospects right off the bat. What are you left with? The stupid doms... and the doms who will try to beat you two at your own game by writing things they know the dominant part of the audience wants to hear rather than being themselves. A person who writes a submissve's profile who doesn't know that she is being helped and advised, will be a lot more open and give you both a much better idea of his personality than one who has been forewarned. (Of course for honesty's sake, if the person is clearly sincere, you will need to tell them sooner rather than later what is going on, but for the first few exchanges, you can learn a lot if he thinks he's just talking to some gullible or dumb submissive.)

Once in a very rare while you'll come across a dominant who doesn't mind going through another dominant to get to this particular submissive, but in my experience, the submissive has to be pretty damn special and the dominant also extrememly unusual (patient and forebearing) for this to happen. This sort of person comes around about once every year if you're lucky, every two-five years if you are not. Can your protectee wait that long for someone close to perfect or could she be happier with someone maybe not saintly enough to put up with the whole protection business but certainly good enough to treat her well and control her in the ways that she needs?

I'm just another submissive, and despite all I know I sometimes feel in need of protection myself because my knowledge doesn't protect me very well from my nature. But boy, those PDPs (public displays of protection) really annoy the crap out of me. If someone like me with zero stake in the matter is thinking, "God, what a stupid game!" when they see a sub profile with that on it, imagine what the dominants are thinking!

(in reply to WyldHrt)
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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/17/2009 7:04:58 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

Frankly, we are all supposed to be adults here. If a sub feels she needs to be 'protected', is this really the right life for her? I would think a dom would want a sub that could take care of herself as well, rather than constantly having to rely on another. There is a difference between looking to someone for help and advice versus being helpless and unable to fend for oneself.


plushie,

Well said, now if only the newcomers could be made to understand that.

CP

(in reply to plushiecat)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 12:17:09 AM   
WyldHrt


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Sorry, been ignoring this thread, as it has become quite the pissing match.
quote:

WydHrt,

Though I doubt that you would or could put any effort into it, you would find yourself disappointed in finding any sub here on CM, Bondage, Alt, of Fetlife who could say they were hunted, pursued etc by this dominant.
It simply chaps my ass because I have been on the path long enought to recal and understand that aa effective dominant does not need to hunt. Not to dosparage those that do, for it is simply in their genes to do so.

So next time you take a bead on someone....................................

Not taking a bead; if I do so, it is with intention to pull the trigger. As I said, that is how your posts in this thread came across to me. The question then remains- if you have no self interest in the matter, why does someone else's choice chap your ass?

Many here have stated that a female submissive must be able to make her own relationship choices. Fine. Some choose to to be under the protection of a Dom they trust (BTW, for some, it happens to be part of their kink). Now all hell breaks loose, and that choice comes under scrutiny by those who don't even know what said dynamic happens to involve for that particular sub and Dom. The same sub who made her own choice is now judged as "stupid", "weak", and "helpless"; the Dom seen as one who is taking advantage and keeping said sub "isolated" and "in reserve". Wow, that's a whole lot of judgment going on.




_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
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Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
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(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 12:46:06 AM   
ResidentSadist


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It means the guy who put the collar on her has to ask permission before fucks her.
It also means I have to beat his ass before I fuck her so he won’t make any protests.
-LMAO-

Seriously though, I suppose “protection” was intended to be like a club patch or colors. Somehow it just never comes off that way to me. To others it often means they think someone hung around AOL & Castle Realm too long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
What does it mean to you?


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I give good thread.


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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 1:00:59 AM   
seababy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

It means the guy who put the collar on her has to ask permission before fucks her.
It also means I have to beat his ass before I fuck her so he won’t make any protests.
-LMAO-

Seriously though, I suppose “protection” was intended to be like a club patch or colors. Somehow it just never comes off that way to me. To others it often means they think someone hung around AOL & Castle Realm too long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
What does it mean to you?



Ahh Castle realm. Land of unicorns, rainbows and submissives called things like  "fluffybunnylittlegirlkins".
Wish there was some way to be able to read old posts from that site.
I would love to be able to set up some threads in the humour section quoting from there.


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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 1:16:05 AM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

To be concise, this just chaps my ass!

What does it mean to you?

CP


Hi CP.... I have been thinking on this for a long time and 5 pages went by me!

Well lets see...   it means your ass has some sort of rash
and you are asking us what it might mean. 
The space between your chaps and ass are too close, ie chaps too tight.
The space betwee ass and chaps are too loose, so losts of friction.

Do you want a solution too?
baby powder?
desitin?
baby balm?
bath soak in epson salts?
nakie is better than chaps?
maybe wear long johns under chaps?

Am I helping? 

BTW...I am trying/attempting to PROTECT your ass from a bad case of "chaps."   Hope its not catchy over the world wide wow! 

< Message edited by RealSub58 -- 8/18/2009 1:36:33 AM >

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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 1:24:37 AM   
ranja


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it might have been mentioned as this thread is so long i have to admit not reading all, but i thought it ment as much as hookers being under the protection of their pimps...

personally i do feel under protection of my Husband as he does indeed protect me and would defend me if needed... when i feel dramatic and weirdly romantic i might get all mushy and very submissive about a subject like this.

I wonder why some people who are putting such value on wearing a thing like a collar, living the lifestyle, leather or lace have such problems with other people who like to think they are- or have someone under protection... it is just another link in the kinky chain... sometimes it might be BS sometimes it is BDSM... play nice

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 1:36:25 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

To be concise, this just chaps my ass!

What does it mean to you?

CP


I know there are many replies to this.   And in fact, it was a discussion piece last night with a Dom and then again in conversation with a sub friend tonight.   Although my opinion didn't change with either discussion.    I feel "under protection" is simply a line of BS.   It's just my opinion, but I do feel that it's just a way of a Dom keeping a sub to himself without much committment.     I often wonder "protection" from what.   I don't see it as a right or wrong thing, just simply one that I don't understand.    I feel it is a way to keep her isolated from others and possibly from others' ways of thinking or gaining experience or knowledge - maybe as a way of keeping her "under his thumb".  


I can think of a very limited number of circumstances where "protection" could be genuine.

For the most part though yes, I agree; it's generally either a way for a dom to keep a sub hanging about, or a way for a sub without any genuine desire to become involved in actual activities to just keep other people hanging on.


(in reply to kallisto)
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RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 2:35:22 AM   
TurboJugend


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

What does it mean to you?

CP


It means as much as "Master reads all my mail"

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 10:14:51 AM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

That's a feat in itself. I usually hit my thumb and miss the one nail

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.


kallisto,

roars; well they do have those new "soft" hammers for delicate jobs.

CP

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/18/2009 10:31:50 AM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

if you have no self interest in the matter, why does someone else's choice chap your ass?


WH,

Simply because I feel I have a vested interest in the overall form of the path and how it is presented / perceived by casual "others"

CP

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Under Protection???????? - 8/19/2009 9:25:24 PM   
Rhodes85


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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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'It's an assurance that they won't be bothered much'

In what way exactly Steven? No offense intended or anything, i'm just curious what you mean. As in if someone walks up to said sub and starts a conversation or whathaveyou, the person 'protecting' them comes up and watches the other guy like hawk the whole time? Seriously, that wouldn't go over well around here.

Seems like a subtle form of exploitation to me. Promising to 'protect' her while working on her to do things the way he wants. Which to me seems like exactly what the the girl in question should be trying to avoid by having said 'protection' in the first place. It also shows that said sub is too immature and too incapable of taking care of themself to be involved in a D/s relationship to begin with. Its been my experience that if a person is incapable of protecting themselves or capable of telling abusers from non abusers then they are not ready for this kind of relationship to begin with.

That being said....how is it exactly someone is suppose to 'protect' someone online exactly?

'Protection from WHO... those that YOU deem they need to be "protected" from; i.e., those who hold YOUR view of this dynamic.'

I agree with MastersSlaveLA.... Its just as likely if not the most likely that this 'protector' is looking out for his (or her) own interests and not the sub he or she is supposed to be 'protecting' Example: Joe Smith sends sub a message asking to talk to her. The sub tells her 'protector' about him. Protector looks through Joe's profile and says to himself 'hmm... this guy has a chance with her...I better tell the girl to keep away from him because hes moving in on my girl' See what i'm saying?

'An example: the other day I received a couple of msg's from a particular Dominant. He was extremely forceful and was immediately demanding of me within the first two emails'

What you need there is a delete/block button and common sense. NOT someone to 'get opinions from'

'But if there was a time when I was just completely blinded by my hunger to serve that I was about to put myself in a dangerous position, I have absolutely no doubt that He would step in and open my eyes while still allowing me the right to choose. '

What you need here is get counseling if it got to that point. Not someone to keep you from doing something stupid (no offense intended) You have to learn to do these things yourself because that other person is not always going to be there to look after you.

'I have never had sex with someone I've had under protection.  I have had a no-sex, discipline-only relationship where she wanted to go to local events and I went with her and felt protective towards her. '

Steven, not to be rude or insulting but just because you know where to draw the line and don't abuse the 'under protection' lable does not mean that others don't

janiebelle pretty much hit the nail on the head...

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 220
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