RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect

RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (Full Version)

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LillyoftheVally -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 7:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer The problem is either that she finds chastity play to be a turnoff, or she thinks that denial is all there is to it...so she also denies herself, lest she "ruin it" by interacting with him sexually. Maybe it is either of those things, or maybe it is that as a submissive it simply isnt her to be doing it? Also if you didnt read that you have to do x, y z then why the implication that denial isn't all there is to it?

MistressTaboo -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 10:26:15 AM)
Yes Chastity subs are HARD work and high maintenance and in the beginning you spend a lot of time going Damn who's the Domme here? You spend a lot of time going back and forth. They have more input than any other sub I've played. To be honest you either really have to be into locking up a man's junk or you are doing it to make someone happy. For us it had to appeal to my sadistic side. So all of of his devices have spikes in them. He can spend the day in his MCD and at night since he sleeps right up against my side and I'm a light sleeper I let him out. He gets good sleep that way too. Then first thing in the morning he goes back in. An MCD is a platic Kali's Teeth. All spikes on the inside. I can kiss him, caress him, wear a tight shirt and he's squirming in pain. He will tell you I'm never as effectionate or flirty as when he's wearing his MCD. I'll kiss him to the point of him being doubled over almost crying. But locking it up just to lock it up. Eh it's not as exciting. Knowing at any point I can do the tiniest thing to make him cringe and squirm. Well I'm a lazy Domme I love it. If he's traveling then I text or email him flirty messages... Also it doesn't have to be long term...Honestly I'd say to start out with 48hrs at a time for a couple of weeks then maybe 72hrs. Yes I know all these guys are 'lock me up forever, throw away the key'. But really there are very few that can keep that up (no pun intended). But there is a HUGE difference between whinny I want to come and I'm being a pissy little sub and depression. Whinny and when can I come subs you beat...you beat the focus right out of them. Sometimes they rebel a little and push back and you treat them like any other sub that pushes back...you remind them who the Domme is.... Depression...if you've let it get there you are going to have to work hard to get them out of it. So it's easier to keep them from it in the first place. Also as far as sacrificing her desires that can be worked around too. Dildo's strap ons Oh My. It's just takes a little imagination. But really they need to sit down and COMMUNICATE. Yes she's the Domme (or at least this month) but if they are going to do chastity play it's harder to maintain than a regular submissive. And it's WORK and if she's really not into it and just trying to make him happy....it's going to seem like more trouble than he's worth. He needs to find something that draws her into it. Otherwise she's going to be tired of it all very soon.

CdnExplorer -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 12:50:28 PM)
quote: then why the implication that denial isn't all there is to it? I'm not sure you really understood what I was saying. There are different ways to play with chastity, just as there are different ways to play with bondage or insert kink here. There are guys who absolutely love to have extended periods of no sexual activity at all, enforced of course. You could call that the lock it up and throw away the key style. Few guys can do this, and if he isn't wired for it he will sink into depression. I've experienced it. It isn't pretty, and recovering from it is difficult. The other more common style of chastity play you could call a kind of extended foreplay. Sexual attention while locked up or even things as simple as talking about how fun it is having the key, and idle speculation about how many more days / weeks / whatever it will stay locked on. It's the difference between feeling invisible, and feeling like a treasured possession. Several of your posts seemed to attack the very idea of this style of play because gasp the Domme had to do some work to maintain the emotional health of her submissive. There is an overriding conception that anyone interested in chastity wants to be sexually invisible. My whole purpose in explaining the differences is to show that the stereotype is false. The first type doesn't have to take much work, though occasional prostate milking would be advisable for long sessions. The second type is more involved, but can be very rewarding to both sides of the kneel if you're into it. And now...I descend back into the ether and leave town for my vacation [:)]

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 12:56:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer Several of your posts seemed to attack the very idea of this style of play because gasp the Domme had to do some work to maintain the emotional health of her submissive. Do they? Nah my posts are questioning the whole nature of the OP. I completely believe that a dominant should consider the welfare of the submissive, but then his wife isn't a dominant, he is asking her to do something against her nature. I don't believe that someone who wants to submit should dictate the terms. The whole 'well I want you to do this and it has to be this way' that isn't submitting. Sorry but it just isn't if I want to 'play' with someone then sure I can tell them what I want, but that isn't submitting that is getting my rocks off. This whole thread is about kink and activities people enjoy, ace, good for them, it is fuck all to do with M/s and D/s and that is the stand point I am taking.

Apocalypso -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 3:04:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer Few guys can do this, and if he isn't wired for it he will sink into depression. Depression as in clinical depression? If that's the case, I'd like to see a source for it. And an understanding of the difference between correlation and causation. If a submissive is actually put into genuine depression because of this, I'm cautious to assume that's actually the reason and would strongly suggeest getting a professional opinion. (They call me Doctor Luv, but that doesn't count). Without that, stuff I want/stuff I get frustrated without/stuff that makes me sulky is not the same thing as a genuine need. The latter should always be recognised and addressed by any responsible dominant. If it's the former, you're a bottom. Which is cool. Just say you're a damn bottom and look for a top, not a dominant.

PeonForHer -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 3:32:43 PM)
Depression as in clinical depression? If that's the case, I'd like to see a source for it. I think it extremely unlikely anyone's done a paper on male chastity and the likelihood of depression, Apocalypso. I'm inclined to take CDNExplorer's word that it happened to him, though.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 3:41:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Depression as in clinical depression? If that's the case, I'd like to see a source for it. I think it extremely unlikely anyone's done a paper on male chastity and the likelihood of depression, Apocalypso. I'm inclined to take CDNExplorer's word that it happened to him, though. I think the point is that there is a missive difference between clinical depression and what people generically call being depressed

ElanSubdued -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 3:45:16 PM)
LillyoftheVally, --- I agree you are not likely to hold on --- to them for months on end which is --- why i put down 'whether you can --- cope or not'. Copy that. Got it. :-) --- I have managed to maintain wonderful --- relationships with people who have had --- days when they simply want nothing to --- do with me, it can be hard to deal with. I think most of us (regardless of role and gender) have days when we want nothing to do with our partners (and sometimes nothing to do with anyone). We all need varying degrees of "solo time" to recoup from stress and other things going on in our lives. The issue becomes how you communicate this to your partner and how accepting your partner is of this. Some people need very little solo time. Others need more. There is no right or wrong here, but this does impact compatibility. --- However in this context, IE chastity I think --- that the OP meant his cock was ignored --- and to be honest is not the same as being --- totally ignored. He is basically saying he --- want chastity done his way. I don't read this the same way as you. What I think the OP is saying is "our chastity chemistry isn't working". While his choice of words may not be the best, I don't think he's saying "I only want chastity if it's on my terms". Indeed, I think the OP is abundantly aware of the compromises both he and his wife are making. --- Yup and as a submissive I get MY happiness --- from submission. This is one of the hardest --- things to explain I think many don't get it, I feel --- uncomfortable and sometimes terrible when --- someone tries to 'make me happy' in what is --- considered the 'traditional' way. If I didn't fucking --- love submitting then I sure as hell wouldn't do it. This makes lots of sense and if it works for you and your partner, I see nothing wrong. Keep in mind though that not all submissives are wired this way. For example, myself, I enjoy submitting, I love pampering my partner, and I love being pampered too. Thus, if my partner decides she wants to spend a night pampering me, hey, I'm not going to argue! :-) Elan.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 3:50:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued I don't read this the same way as you. What I think the OP is saying is "our chastity chemistry isn't working". While his choice of words may not be the best, I don't think he's saying "I only want chastity if it's on my terms". Indeed, I think the OP is reasonably aware of the compromises both he and his wife are making. Fair enough, but it is this to me that gets my blood boiling quote: Part of it is (my view) is also simply a lack of effort or focus on her part and that's what conversation is all about. This about a woman who is doing things that do not come naturally to her, to me that is where I think that he is being completely unfair

ElanSubdued -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 5:40:57 PM)
LillyoftheVally, --- This about a woman who is doing --- things that do not come naturally --- to her, to me that is where I think --- that he is being completely unfair Relationships (and most certainly any long term relationship like marriage) go through stages of change and compromise. People don't remain static and as they grow and their needs change, each partner ends up accommodating the other. In the interest of pleasing my partner, I've done many things that didn't come naturally to me and that were "not necessarily what I signed up for". Ditto for various partners I've been in relationships with - they have accommodated me in ways I didn't know I'd ask for at the outset of the relationship. All of this said, I believe the foundations for these kinds of relationship modulations are communication, patience, mutual respect, and love. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to. Well. Okay. I'll correct myself. You can attempt to force someone but the results are usually less than satisfactory for all involved. I'm not sure whether the OP is being unfair or not, but what I do know is that if someone is pursuing new ground they're not necessarily comfortable with, words of appreciation and encouragement work better than chastisement. (I'm officially a chastity pun-slave now. :-) Elan.

PeonForHer -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 5:59:03 PM)
I think the point is that there is a missive difference between clinical depression and what people generically call being depressed That's a horribly difficult distinction to make, Lilly.

AAkasha -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 6:02:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued LillyoftheVally, --- This about a woman who is doing --- things that do not come naturally --- to her, to me that is where I think --- that he is being completely unfair Relationships (and most certainly any long term relationship like marriage) go through stages of change and compromise. People don't remain static and as they grow and their needs change, each partner ends up accommodating the other. In the interest of pleasing my partner, I've done many things that didn't come naturally to me and that were "not necessarily what I signed up for". Ditto for various partners I've been in relationships with - they have accommodated me in ways I didn't know I'd ask for at the outset of the relationship. All of this said, I believe the foundations for these kinds of relationship modulations are communication, patience, mutual respect, and love. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to. Well. Okay. I'll correct myself. You can attempt to force someone but the results are usually less than satisfactory for all involved. I'm not sure whether the OP is being unfair or not, but what I do know is that if someone is pursuing new ground they're not necessarily comfortable with, words of appreciation and encouragement work better than chastisement. (I'm officially a chastity pun-slave now. :-) Elan. While it's expected that every relationship involves some compromise of wants and desires, the ultimate irony, though, is when the "submissive" is the one upset that the dominant is not the one willing/trying to compromise. I think, but I am not sure, that this might be what is frustrating to Lilly... It is frustrating when a submissive insists that the desire to serve is his main goal, except when he's not getting what he wants out of it. That mindset in particular snuffs out my femdom lusts in a heartbeat and I have to be careful to manage submissives so that they don't start that kind of behavior. But if I am not in the mood, there is no compromise. In this thread we're talking about a service top, so to some degree, there's the expectation that she's going to be molding her actions. But to her, perhaps domination, even "service topping," includes doing what she wants if the sub doesn't like it. Akasha

hardbodysub -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 7:15:12 PM)
quote: Yes Chastity subs are HARD work and high maintenance Based on your large sample of how many? Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's probably true of most, but just like anything else, it depends on the individuals. Not just the sub, but also the domme, because as I wrote earlier, it's as hard as she makes it. By the way, "whinny" is the sound a horse makes.

Apocalypso -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/7/2009 10:56:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That's a horribly difficult distinction to make, Lilly. Hence I really think we need to be clear that a medical professional is needed to diagnose it. If somebody actually is suffering from depression, they need to go see a doctor for their own sake. You shouldn't try and resolve it in a relationship any more than you would do so with a broken leg.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 2:14:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha While it's expected that every relationship involves some compromise of wants and desires, the ultimate irony, though, is when the "submissive" is the one upset that the dominant is not the one willing/trying to compromise. I think, but I am not sure, that this might be what is frustrating to Lilly... It is frustrating when a submissive insists that the desire to serve is his main goal, except when he's not getting what he wants out of it. Thank you AAkasha, I kinda feel a bit like I am banging my head against a brick wall in this thread.

ignoreme -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 3:02:18 AM)
quote: In this thread we're talking about a service top, so to some degree, there's the expectation that she's going to be molding her actions. But to her, perhaps domination, even "service topping," includes doing what she wants if the sub doesn't like it. I completely agree with you, he should be happy that she accommodates his sub desires at all, and should thus try to play his part as sub.

PeonForHer -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 3:28:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That's a horribly difficult distinction to make, Lilly. Hence I really think we need to be clear that a medical professional is needed to diagnose it. If somebody actually is suffering from depression, they need to go see a doctor for their own sake. You shouldn't try and resolve it in a relationship any more than you would do so with a broken leg. I can only speak for the UK, Apocalypso, but here the medics themselves operate on the basis of a very broad definition of even 'clinical' depression. You tell your doc a two of a huge range of symptoms, and you're diagnosed with depression. I myself suffered from it once, and a few friends did as well. The symptoms were always different. But I agree that it's not something that it's the partner's job to resolve. It absolutely needs proper medical advice and treatment.

MsFlutter -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 5:37:20 AM)
I've learned a lot from this discussion - particularly the posts by MistressTaboo. What are the odds Mrs bdspirit is secretly thinking "maybe he just doesnt want to have sex with me - he'd rather be in chastity" ? I've already stated that I'm not a subject matter expert so don't roast me too badly [8D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 7:57:17 AM)
What are the odds Mrs bdspirit is secretly thinking "maybe he just doesnt want to have sex with me - he'd rather be in chastity" ? Good thought. Not a point, though, that would get conveyed if Mrs Bdspirit feels that this would be to admit to a 'weakness' that "True Dommes", "Superior Women" and "Goddesses" shouldn't have. How dismal if it's true, though. Poor woman.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Chastity, the thin line between dominance and neglect (8/8/2009 8:27:45 AM)
What i think most people are missing from this conversation is that any reaction to anything is going to be an individual response. Could the "depression" noted here be an actual diagnosed condition or is it just an easy way to say "he's in a funk"? That would completely depend on the person involved. In the end it often does not matter for that person. They are feeling terrible, their dominant generally ends up feeling terrible and the whole experience becomes a negative. Any play that seems to push in this direction must be monitored and stopped if it is having a negative impact. Any time anything that produces a consistently negative atmosphere is prolonged over time, there is a chance that the consequences will be stronger and deeper and last longer. I don't think we need to get into the psychobabble of definitions just to share information and more importantly personal experiences. Wherever chastity has been written about extensively, there is seemingly always a note toward the fact that some men DO NOT respond well to it regardless of how it is done. You can be affecting not only their cock and ability to use it as they please, but more importantly their masculinity and what they have used to measure that since they started those wet dreams many years ago. It is the psychology of the experiment that i was most interested in with my mate. It has only been a few weeks for us, but his level of emotions throughout has been facinating. And at times, yes i do forget about it, and when he whines for attention i sometimes get pissy myself feeling that i am the one being controlled. but it is up to me to actually follow through and let him have that control or not. I tend to back off when he gets whiney. What i have found interesting for me though is that i was never into humiliation play, but it is so easy to tease him about not being worthy, or being a little girl now that he is locked up, and he responds greatly to that, and it amuses me. The journey through chastity needs to be take together i believe. Another point i would like to address is the sex drive of the individual in chastity. Yes i have a friend who locked himself up and is ever so proud he has stayed in the device for over 6 months at a time. He identifies with it taking away his masculinity and HE LIKES THAT. On the other side is my mate, who has the sex drive of a very horny 16 year old. In or out of chastity doesn't change that, it just means he doesn't get to satisfy those desires through masturbation all day any more, so more attention from me is NEEDED otherwise he is a bitch to live with. Even when not in chastity, if he gets too grumpy i just grab his ass and fuck him whether i'm in the mood or not. It helps both of us as he is more relaxed and i don't have to try to figure out where to hide the body when i kill him because he is driving me nuts.

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