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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/6/2009 11:45:14 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Steve Kagen represents the Green Bay area of Wisconsin. If Obamas plan is the way to go, where are the supporters of that plan.? The democrats won that district 4 years running. I think they might be out of gas.


Which was exactly the question posed to Rep. Doggett in my earlier link.

When the polls show the country fairly evenly divided, with a small edge to those favoring the health plan, how is it that we see these overwhelming protests by one side?

Could it be that certain interests with a lot of money to lose are organizing campaigns to have the gullible do their bidding?

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/6/2009 11:51:22 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


"“We have invested a lot of time, energy and resources into educating Americans over the past several months about the dangers of government-run health care and I think we’re seeing some of the fruits of that campaign,” Scott said, though he claimed outrage was spontaneous."


Considering that Scott owns a chain of walk-in clinics that cater largely to the uninsured, do you you think that might have something to do with his wanting to educate everyone about the dangers of government-run health care?

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 3:47:24 AM   
Sanity


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They're pissed off, and they're trying to be heard. I've pointed out some of Obama's lies on these boards, how he says one thing to a crowd of Union people and the polar opposite in his press conferences. Essentially he tells the radical left that this is the back door to nationalizing health care, and he tells the cameras that no one is talking about that.

That's gotten out, and so no - people aren't just sitting and politely listening to the lies any more, and that's understandable.

What's curious about this is how people like you don't get it, and try to claim that it has to be a conspiracy. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sure sounds like they want to discuss.


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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 3:56:35 AM   
Sanity


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It's been pointed out before, thinkprogress.org is a far, far left organization - your citing them for "facts" is laughable, because its a well known propaganda website.

"The memo" has been discussed as well, and it's been debunked:

quote:


Rocking The Town Halls Memo

Now that liberals have had their day of fun, falling for the manufactured outrage over a “leaked memo report,” the truth is coming out...

The so-called “Rocking the Town halls” memo was written by a Bob MacGuffie as claimed, but who is this Bob MacGuffie? Obviously they don’t know either.

It turns out that Bob MacGuffie and four friends created Right Principles PAC in 2008. Since forming, they have accepted a whopping $5,017 and disbursed $1,777, according to their FEC filing.

Right Principles has a Facebook group with 23 members and a Twitter account with five followers.

They have no connection to the Republican Party and they have no connection whatsoever with FreedWorks, as claimed by “outraged” Democrats.

MacGuffie, a Libertarian, claims to have “never pulled a lever for a Republican or Democrat on a federal level.”

MacGuffie says “He’s surprised at his elevation to national rabble-rouser by the Left.” “I guess they don’t believe that people in America will stand up and fight back when government gets overbearing,” said MacGuffie, who added that he originally e-mailed the memo to 8-10 Connecticut activists in June.

Once again, another Democrat Lie and manufactured outrage is exposed.


http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2009/08/rocking-town-halls-memo.html


It's surprising that you're trying to bring it up again.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/7/2009 4:31:15 AM >

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:10:26 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I've pointed out some of Obama's lies on these boards


And what of these lies?



CPR Administers Bad Facts, Again
The group says premiums could nearly double for those who buy their own insurance. Experts we consulted disagree.
The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims that “new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent.” That’s misleading. The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have health insurance – those who buy it on their own. The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for …


Surgery for Seniors vs. Abortions?Family Research Council says abortions will trump care for the elderly in public plan.
A new TV ad sponsored by an anti-abortion group shows a white-haired man fretting that under a federal health plan, “They won’t pay for my surgery, but we’re forced to pay for abortions.”

“Will this be our future?” the ad asks, merging the fears of seniors …

False Euthanasia Claims
The claim that the House health care bill pushes suicide is nonsense.
On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions telling seniors how “to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut your life short.” House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly more measured

Dying on a Wait List?
August 6, 2009
Perhaps the most emotional of the health care ads we’ve seen in recent months is the one featuring Canadian Shona Holmes, who warns of the dangers of a government-run health care system. Holmes tells viewers: "I survived a brain tumor. But if I’d relied on my government, I’d be dead. … As my brain tumor got worse, my government health care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist. In six months, I would have died.”


Abortion and the Health Care Bills
If you don’t keep your eye on the health care overhaul bills making their way through Congress, it’s easy to find your knowledge quickly outdated. We posted an article Friday dealing with accusations by some conservative groups that the bills would mandate government-funded abortions (they wouldn’t). That very evening, the House Energy and Commerce Committee passed a new bill. Government-funded abortions still wouldn’t be possible under this version – in fact, it’s the only bill that explicitly prohibits the use of taxpayer money... [Read more]


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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:28:31 AM   
FirmhandKY


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What I find utterly sickening about even having this discussion is quite simple.

When the liberals attempt to influence the political system, or the vote on a specific program then they encourage people to turn out. They encourage people to show up at town hall meetings, to write their representatives, to protest and to shut down the opposition.

This is called "patriotic dissent" and is their right.

When conservatives attempt to influence the political system, or the vote on a specific program then they encourage people to turn out. They encourage people to show up at town hall meetings, to write their representatives, to protest and to shut down the opposition.

This is called "a conspiracy" and must be shut down.

I see hypocrisy for miles and miles.

Firm

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:33:18 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I personally dont think its in anyone's best interest to show up at a meeting and start shouting. I can understand why people are angry. Lies like i posted would piss me off too. But instead of being convinced to talk in a calm manner, they are quickly fired up to begin shouting. Reminds me much of the Union meetings in the south. Pack a few in a room who are "plants" and the passions and fears of people can rise to a frenzied pitch. Now, people are being physically hurt, on both sides, at these town meetings.

Are either side truly pleased with their reults?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:33:59 AM   
Sanity


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What about them - if you're so concerned with this group, CPR, why not start a thread. It has nothing to do with this thread.

Its completely off topic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I've pointed out some of Obama's lies on these boards


And what of these lies?


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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:37:26 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		How is it off point?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:38:26 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I've been following some of this the last few days.

I'm not real happy about the apparent attempt to alienate politically disgruntled Americans who simply want the elected officials to actually ... well ... read the health care bill before they vote on it. Especially when one of the administrations campaign pledges was to put proposed legislation on the web, and require a waiting period before passage.

Or attempt to paint dissenters as "un-American", or to belittle and attempt to take away their humanity.

That's the road to serfdom and "re-education camps".

Firm


Kind of hard to read something that hasn't been written yet.


Point.

Perhaps, then, our representatives should not only wait for it to be written, they should also then take the time to analyze and debate the eventual plan, and - once they have a firm understanding of "the" plan - take the time to discuss it with their constituents?

Rather than attempt to hold "town hall meetings", where they admit they don't know the plan, but it's "critical" to say yes and vote on it immediately - before it's even written, much less understood?

If and when a salesman says to me "No need to read the contract. I'll fill out all the sales terms and conditions later. Just sign here.", there is only one conclusion that any reasoning human being with even a modicum of experience and intelligence can arrive at: it's a swindle.

Don't sign.

Don't get me wrong. I've said in other threads that I'm very unhappy with our current system. But even if I 100% supported a government run system (I don't), I still would say the exact same thing in this case.

Firm


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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 5:44:43 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

The claims that a bunch of these people are plants aren't unfounded.

There is evidence that two groups in particular are being put on buses and being driven around, townhall meeting to townhall meeting.  The people causing a scene at these townhall meetings aren't even the constituants of those towns.

People are being handed leaflets telling them how to behave at these townhalls - don't give the Democratic speakers a chance to even get a word in.  Stand up and yell, and sit back down immediately again so that you won't get in trouble for causing a disruption.

This is all on record.

That's not democracy at work, or the voice of dissent.  It's mob rule.

It's "mob rule" only when you disagree with the protesters.

When you agree with the protesters, it's simply "speaking truth to power".

Firm

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 6:00:30 AM   
Sanity


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The group doesn't have anything to do with astroturfing, which that's the subject of this thread - the practice of astroturfing town hall meetings.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How is it off point?


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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 6:15:56 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		This is pretty damn funny:

Know Your Town Hall Mob Agitators!

Excerpt:

By Linda Douglass
Deputy Assistant Under-Minister of Truth
White House Health Care Task Force

Greetings citizen! By now you may have heard scattered rumors of state and party officials encountering reactionary resistors at local health care reform information programs. Do not be alarmed, for our 5-year plan for citizen health proceeds without delay. Remain stalwart! The truth can be told at last, that these so-called "protests" are merely the desperate rear flank mob actions of dead-end bandits and saboteurs in the pay of enemy insurance agents.

Pay them no heed, for these outside agitators in no way represent any threat to our great patriotic push forward for increased citizen heathfulness! These well-dressed prep school gangsters of reaction seek only to frighten and demoralize and intimidate you, with their confusing "facts" and hob-nailed Sperry Topsiders. Unfortunately they are joined in conspiracy by a well-financed network of unlicensed blogs and talk radio traitors, who exaggerate their numbers and percolate disinformation -- even cleverly staged YouTube videos of an impostor President Obama saying "quotes"!


If you are familiar at all with historical Soviet propaganda, you'll laugh your ass off.

Firm

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 6:53:59 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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People are getting hurt at these meetings now?

I can't imagine why...


quote:

White House to Democrats: 'Punch back twice as hard'

Top White House aides gave Senate Democrats a recess battle plan on Thursday, arming the lawmakers with tips for avoiding disastrous town hall meetings while showing them polling on popular aspects of the reform effort.


Senior White House adviser David Axelrod and deputy chief of staff Jim Messina told senators to focus on the insured and how they would benefit from “consumer protections" in the overhaul, such as ending the practice of denying insurance based on preexisting conditions and ensuring the continuity of coverage between jobs. They showed video clips of the confrontational town halls that have dominated the media coverage, and told senators to do more prep work than usual for their public meetings by making sure their own supporters turn out, senators and aides said. And they screened TV ads and reviewed the various campaigns by critics of the Democratic plan.


“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting.


The hourlong session was the last opportunity for Democratic leaders and the White House to prepare senators for what will be a crucial month in shaping public opinion on health care. With no final legislation to promote, senators have expressed concern about dealing with questions and criticisms about the almost $1 trillion overhaul. The spate of confrontational town hall meetings have raised the stakes.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html#ixzz0NVMPocRq



According to Drudge, "Union thugs" have been "unleashed" against anyone thought to be guilty of dissent as well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I personally dont think its in anyone's best interest to show up at a meeting and start shouting. I can understand why people are angry. Lies like i posted would piss me off too. But instead of being convinced to talk in a calm manner, they are quickly fired up to begin shouting. Reminds me much of the Union meetings in the south. Pack a few in a room who are "plants" and the passions and fears of people can rise to a frenzied pitch. Now, people are being physically hurt, on both sides, at these town meetings.

Are either side truly pleased with their reults?


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 7:14:23 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

The claims that a bunch of these people are plants aren't unfounded.

There is evidence that two groups in particular are being put on buses and being driven around, townhall meeting to townhall meeting.  The people causing a scene at these townhall meetings aren't even the constituants of those towns.

People are being handed leaflets telling them how to behave at these townhalls - don't give the Democratic speakers a chance to even get a word in.  Stand up and yell, and sit back down immediately again so that you won't get in trouble for causing a disruption.

This is all on record.

That's not democracy at work, or the voice of dissent.  It's mob rule.



It's a play right out of the Democrat/Union/Acorn playbook, and now the the shoe is on the right foot, the left foot is crying foul...I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 7:40:23 AM   
Sanity


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Those are desperate, baseless claims made on far left websites and supported by thin or non-existent evidence.

NBC News, by the way, is fast approaching the status of far left website...

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

The claims that a bunch of these people are plants aren't unfounded.

There is evidence that two groups in particular are being put on buses and being driven around, townhall meeting to townhall meeting.  The people causing a scene at these townhall meetings aren't even the constituants of those towns.

People are being handed leaflets telling them how to behave at these townhalls - don't give the Democratic speakers a chance to even get a word in.  Stand up and yell, and sit back down immediately again so that you won't get in trouble for causing a disruption.

This is all on record.

That's not democracy at work, or the voice of dissent.  It's mob rule.



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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 8:08:18 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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Status: offline 		And in the hypocrisy department, can you imagine the howls of facism if GWB asked for copies of emails from anyone who said anything "fishy" about his policies? the ACLU would have been all over it, the Times would have run a weeklong series on it, and Keith Olbermann would have had paroxysms of angst.

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 8:25:04 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		On orders from the Administration; “If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting." COUNTERATTACK

Cue the head bangers - That will teach those rabble rousers to STFU.
CHICAGO POLITICS

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 8:33:38 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
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Status: offline 		Hillary's thoughts on the subject

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RE: Real Astroturf vs. The Fake Stuff - 8/7/2009 9:34:42 AM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		It is politics as usual.  Nancy Pelosi is an idiot and could not explain how to boil water.  The democrats are going to say all this off the wall crap, because they don't like the idea of grass roots anything unless it is their cause.
The health care debacle is exactly that.  Congress wants the people to use the system, but put in the bill that they were expempt.  Why you ask?  Because it is crappy health care and they don't want crappy health care for themselves.  It is ok for us, but they are better than us...or at least they think so.

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 60
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