RE: Young submission and its consequences

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Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist ~fr~ You know Prin, I never thought you were the kind of woman who needd to pull something like this to get attention. What a disappointment. So you now think I am the sort of woman who would pull what exactly to get attention? Share the reality of my life? Speak from experience? I can assure you IrishMist that attention here is the last thing I need. I ger a very great deal of it by mail. No: my motivation was to open a thread as the title suggests to ask for an intelligent debate of elements of 'young' (meaning green, inexperienced) submission. Which I define as a potential (personality) to submit (behaviour). It may not be the place for intelligent debate.

stella41b -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:19:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Stella prinsexx has asked the public for advice and the public to the best of their abilities is giving it. It is only possible to judge a situation by looking at the evidence presented in this case all we have to go on is the original post. That prinsexx is in a deeply unpleasant situation is irrefutable. Likewise is the fact that her own experiences make this doubly hard. However that doesn't mean that the advice given is wrong just because it urges hard decisions. In this particular case it seems to me that therapy would not be a bad idea, prinsexx seems to be repeating patterns of abuse and now that her daughter is having the same problems perhaps certain attitudes have been imprinted. YOu are her friend stella so you know better but personally I can only comment on what I have been given and I think my advice is sound. Okay, I understand the bit about the advice but not so much about the abuse. I am abused, I come from a very abusive childhood and have been in abusive relationships. I have also repeated patterns of abuse and subjected others to the same emotional abuse and manipulation that I was put through by my mother and I have got myself into abusive relationships. I've also spent periods in denial. Probably more so than anybody else including my parents I have abused myself, with suicidal attempts, self-harm, and episodes of bulimia and comfort eating. I have repeatedly sought out relationships in which the cycle of abuse could continue. I'm just short of 6ft now just under 300lbs and have come down from 460lbs. Therapy was tried and rejected. I'm 43 years old and these issues have continued until recently. What worked in my case was a brilliant domme, supportive friends and meaningful occupation. I'm not without issues, I still have them, but I have different issues and am no longer abusive or seeking abuse. This means it's taken me close to 30 years. Make of that what you will but I'd just like to point out that everyone here, myself included remain on the outside of the situation just as other people are with me... ....and it's much easier to give advice from the perspective of the outside and to see the issues perhaps more clearly than it is to be on the inside of the situation and to stop that cycle of abuse. Now if what I have posted above puts me in the same place as Prin in the view and minds of other people then so be it. My point wasn't about the advice, but about the hostility and animosity that came with it. That's the point I wished to make. I stand by my position as Prin's friend, by my neutrality on the core issue, and by my opinion that a few here need to either apply the standards fairly or forget about them.

beargonewild -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:20:52 PM)
~FR~ I am completely dumbfounded at the sheer hypocrisy of many of the vultures who deemed it necessary to attack instead of being civilized in offering opinions. How it stands is the OP is trying to deal with the a tragedy which is affecting her flesh and blood. Yes well all know it is a well known fact that Prin is a therapist.....remember she is is first and foremost a mother and a parent's protective instincts will and do over ride cold hard logic. Just because Prin gave a tiny insight to her daughter's nature by using the terms "prick tease" does not mean she is honestly believes her daughter is white trash or trailer trash....my gut instinct says that is far far from the truth. Let me ask every single person here who had been a victim of abuse this one question: During the period when you were being abused, can you honestly say that you were thinking rationally and with plain logic? That answer is a resounding no! So how the hell can you expect or demand that the OP to also think in such a manner when this is her daughter who was physically abused. I want to ask posters who are parents of adult offspring that have been abused by their lovers: haven't you felt torn between wanted to protect your abused offspring and kill the abuser yet that anger conflicts with your morals about taking a life?

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 , prinsexx seems to be repeating patterns of abuse I must be the only one on collarme.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:30:46 PM)
I have no idea about other users of collar me prinsexx and at this point I do not care either. This thread is about you and so I am giving you the advice that I think is best. This is not a competition to see who is the most mentally sound and competent. What part of the advice i've given do you disagree with?

NorthernGent -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:45:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Knee jerk kangaroo court going on here Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. Kangaroo court? Being aware of your child dragged along the pavement and throwing in she was a 'prick tease' in advance - isn't helping the preparation. What does it say where you stand by and do nothing? That all of this is acceptable? Surely as a parent you make rules for your children and ensure they stand by them. I would have thought that a rule high on the list of priorities is you don't go out with men who drag you along the pavement. I mean my Mother had a rule for my Sister when she was 15 that she was in our home before it got dark - and when my Sister didn't tow the line my Mother went out found her and brought her home. She'd have found this lad and hacked his knackers off. And no rift was caused - intelligent people realise that their parents make rules and enforce them - part and parcel of parenthood.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:46:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b My point wasn't about the advice, but about the hostility and animosity that came with it. That's the point I wished to make. I stand by my position as Prin's friend, by my neutrality on the core issue, and by my opinion that a few here need to either apply the standards fairly or forget about them. I'm all for perspicacity. Stella you understand this. I can and I have posted from an intellectual pont of view. (Mind you that's starting to get the rabid dog treatment here also). But I am brave enough, spirited enough and experienced enough to post from a personal point of view. I am like this with my email interactions. I look at figures sometimes, on views and hit rates. On average a thread gets ten times more views that it does responses. So for example if there are 140 responses there will be, in general 1,500 views. I have already said it once on ths thread that those who are most vocal are those who are assertive, are those submissives who are allowed to post, and are those who feel safe within what is an emergent culture of conformity here. Many have left Collarme because of the way in which these threads deteriorate. All I know is that people read here. And they read me, my threads and my journal. In droves. And I get mail to say so. My mail is split mainly into three main groups. The domiants who coirt me (bless them all), the admirers who read me and slaves and submissives who thank me profusely for airing those issues which they do not (for many reasons0 feel empowered to raise themselves. That's not WHY I post. But it is an encouraging corollary of such. I am, as I have also stated here, an experiential phenomenologist. I believe in the power pf each and everyone of us to self-actualise. Therapy's function is to accelerate that process. Or it can be. Often iy lays in the hands of inexperienced bluffers who are not only limited in their understanding of the current psychological approaches but neither do they have the life experiences which often, should and could drive their own continuous and ongoing professional developmemt. I make no attempts to hide it when I fal apart. You know this. And we are each other's source of support and I cherish your friendship. It is reciprocal. Slo: if this thread, that is the parts of it interwoven between the snark and the oh prin get therapy bullying, if there are aspects within this thread that has helped a 'young' submissive in any way shape or form then I am grateful for that. If my perspicacity achieves that then I am happy.

RCdc -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:47:38 PM)
stella The reason Prin is receiving such responses is twofold. One, her spikiness back at people... it's making things worse - perpetuating the nastiness. (Not talking about you Prin - I know ya are reading this too you spikygalyou)... and the link to it being submission. Some people get pissy if they are told that because they are submissive it leaves them automatically open to abuse because it perpetuates the old myth that non BDSMers believe BDSM to be. So it winds some people up. It's not submission. It's abuse. Doesn't matter if shes the abuser or he is. Doesn't even matter the age for me. Certainly do not care what his chosen profession is or hers. Don't care who is the therapist. It's got nothing to do with green submission. To call it that or even try and recognise it as that, enables abuse to occur. And that is the biggest thing. It's not about submission no matter how Prin (you) want to make the thread about it. It's about her daughters inability to make a good decision. the.dark.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:48:43 PM)
There's a difference between advice/offering opinion and hostility Starbuck, so you're pretty much in the clear. Pirate

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:51:19 PM)
You are being unfair Prinsexx, you asked for advice. In turn you have received advice. If it is not to your liking that is fair enough but do not cast aspersions on those offering it because it does not tally with your personal feelings. I have been vocal on this thread because I feel compassion towards a woman in a difficult situation and am attempting to offer her methods by which she could resolve said impasse. Like I asked before prinsexx which parts of the advice I have given you do you disagree with?

FullCircle -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:52:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx On average a thread gets ten times more views that it does responses. So for example if there are 140 responses there will be, in general 1,500 views. If twenty people are viewing a thread and they go away and come back it will get twenty more views but no more people will see it. The number of views is always more than the number of posts but there is no real reason to think any more people have viewed a topic than posted in one.

LadyPact -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:53:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: He will learn to pick on men of his own size in the Army rather than young women. Wow...you really believe that??? Hate to break it to you but many many times just the opposite happens to many who join the military. They come back with major emotional problems that leads to abuse of their spouses and anyone else that gets in their way...and yes I have experience with this before you start asking that. I can't speak for how things go in the UK, but I can tell you that things have changed a lot in the services here. No, they aren't perfect, but it's far from the good old boys club that it used to be where a first sergeant would sweep shit under the rug when it comes to domestic abuse. One of the last things that someone in the military wants to happen to them is to be found guilty of spousal abuse. Not only do they get to deal with the local jurisdiction, but they also get to face what the army chooses to dish out. With that conviction, they are also no longer permitted to carry a firearm and are out with a less than honorable discharge that stays with them the rest of their life. In other words, career over.

beargonewild -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:55:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. What about simply teaching one's offspring the skills to cope and deal with the harsh reality of the adult world and then allow them to use those taught skills in a manner as we see fit? There comes a definite point in an offspring's life where we pass that invisible line into being adults ourselves, thus the parental units guidance is no longer valid and only acts as background noise in most cases.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 3:58:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 I have no idea about other users of collar me prinsexx and at this point I do not care either. This thread is about you and so I am giving you the advice that I think is best. This is not a competition to see who is the most mentally sound and competent. What part of the advice i've given do you disagree with? Look I really am not focussed on any one post in particular I'm just amazed at the level of response. But here is your previous post: Prinsexx as a therapist do you perhaps not a connectionwith your own experiences which I am sure were very deeply unpleasant and how you are reacting to your daughter's present situation. Yes I am a whole person. Absolutely connected up. You must know as well as I do that a classic symptom of abuse is that the person on the receiving end will create excuses as to why the abuser acts as they do and why in turn they, the abused, deserves it. One of the most frewuntly asked questions of me when I was in that abisive marriage was: why do you stay? Why do you not leave? To which I would often reply: because it is my and my children's home. because it is everything I have worked for and evrything the children know and love. Or: I think it is him that should leave, He is the avuser. OR because he hides the car keys, threatens to set fire to all mypossessions, has me stalked, taps the phone lines, has frauded all the money in all of my accounts and so on.Thsoe were some of my answers to that type of question. You're doing that exact thing here. I'm doing wharexactly? However your daughter has behaved is not an excuse for this man to act as he has done. here havebeen plenty of tims when a woman has done something revolting towards me and I have ben sorely tempted to lash out. I never have though because I am a man and am able to control my baser emotion rather than vice versa. I never made a gender case out of this. Very many men are abused by women. Very many same sex parners abuse each other. Check the statistics. The fact tha is joining the army is again no excuse whatsoever. His grief and tension at leaving should be handled far better. If he was suibtable for the army he would handle these feelings better. Cleary he is not yet ready, on this score I do know what I am talking about. I understand that you are frightened of losing your daughter but that is not going to happen if she is intelligent. The army deem him to be ready. If she is stupid then you might have a problem. Your fear of having temporary emotional upheval should not outweigh the very real possibility that he will kill or maim her. Why not speak to the boys parents I am sure they would be horrified at his behaviour and could perhaps take action that is difficult for you to do in your position. She is not stupid. He is not stupid. Just young.

marie2 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:00:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Knee jerk kangaroo court going on here Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. Kangaroo court? Being aware of your child dragged along the pavement and throwing in she was a 'prick tease' in advance - isn't helping the preparation. What does it say where you stand by and do nothing? That all of this is acceptable? Surely as a parent you make rules for your children and ensure they stand by them. I would have thought that a rule high on the list of priorities is you don't go out with men who drag you along the pavement. I mean my Mother had a rule for my Sister when she was 15 that she was in our home before it got dark - and when my Sister didn't tow the line my Mother went out found her and brought her home. She'd have found this lad and hacked his knackers off. And no rift was caused - intelligent people realise that their parents make rules and enforce them - part and parcel of parenthood. I don't disagree with any of this, but it's not always that simple. Even kids of the most attentive, on-the-job parents, will at some point push the envelope. Parenting teenagers is a tough row to hoe. Most important they have to have some respect for the parent, or they will just run all over your ass. The limitations and boundaries have to be instilled early on, or else it's just going to snowball out of control. Either way, it's all easier said than done sometimes.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Knee jerk kangaroo court going on here Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. Kangaroo court? Being aware of your child dragged along the pavement and throwing in she was a 'prick tease' in advance - isn't helping the preparation. What does it say where you stand by and do nothing? That all of this is acceptable? Surely as a parent you make rules for your children and ensure they stand by them. I would have thought that a rule high on the list of priorities is you don't go out with men who drag you along the pavement. I mean my Mother had a rule for my Sister when she was 15 that she was in our home before it got dark - and when my Sister didn't tow the line my Mother went out found her and brought her home. She'd have found this lad and hacked his knackers off. And no rift was caused - intelligent people realise that their parents make rules and enforce them - part and parcel of parenthood. Except I didn't "stand by and do nothing" .... Pirate

NorthernGent -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:01:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. What about simply teaching one's offspring the skills to cope and deal with the harsh reality of the adult world and then allow them to use those taught skills in a manner as we see fit? Same thing isn't it. Yeah I agree that once you leave the home then it's up to you. But you don't stop being a parent when your child leaves home. And there are certain instances where you may feel obliged to step in. Whether or not you think your daughter being dragged along a pavement warrants such action is personal preference I suppose.

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:03:14 PM)
Youth is no excuse for what has been described. I would not have allowed my son to use his age as an excuse for such horrid behaviour nor would I have allowed my daughter to use it as an excuse to tollerate it.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:03:35 PM)
Yannow Bear, there's a bunch of statistics somewhere (some people love 'em) but I don't need them to know that indeed some of the posters on this thread are abusers [;)] Pirate

NorthernGent -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:05:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Knee jerk kangaroo court going on here Surely the idea of parenthood is that you prepare your children to deal with the adult world. Kangaroo court? Being aware of your child dragged along the pavement and throwing in she was a 'prick tease' in advance - isn't helping the preparation. What does it say where you stand by and do nothing? That all of this is acceptable? Surely as a parent you make rules for your children and ensure they stand by them. I would have thought that a rule high on the list of priorities is you don't go out with men who drag you along the pavement. I mean my Mother had a rule for my Sister when she was 15 that she was in our home before it got dark - and when my Sister didn't tow the line my Mother went out found her and brought her home. She'd have found this lad and hacked his knackers off. And no rift was caused - intelligent people realise that their parents make rules and enforce them - part and parcel of parenthood. Except I didn't "stand by and do nothing" .... Pirate Not the issue Jonnieboy. The issue is the OP asked for advice and you gave the the advice a kangaroo court tag. As explained there are reasons why people have chosen to give the advice that you're dismissing as a kangaroo court.

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