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RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 8:34:48 AM   
MMercurial


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline 		I love name calling!

Especially when you have a bunch of people who think it is okay, DESPITE OUR DECLARED LOVE OF FREEDOM, to tell other people how much they have to pay employees, who are NOT slaves, and have a choice, not to work for said employer.

I love FREEDOM, and I despise FREEDOM haters!

As for the rest, I have work to do.

I suggest all of you read "Minimum Wage, Maximum Damage" by Jim Cox, and grow up!

I got real work to do.

< Message edited by MMercurial -- 8/9/2009 8:36:36 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 8:37:36 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Mercurial,

Seems from your vast experience you could muster an economic/business answer instead of nothing but insults.

I ran businesses for 20 years before I decided to teach and write full time instead.

Nor am I claiming expert. I'm pointing out that the argument presented so far doesn't make sense. If a business has work to produce, it hires workers. If it lays them off, it doesn't have work.

That's how we stupid jackasses create profit.

At least that's what I learned in business.


(in reply to MMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 8:47:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		and your assumption that people dont understand is a hoot too, Dear. I have a double major in accounting and business finance. I have managed many businesses. What you are whining about is what everyone has to abide by, by law. dont like it? close your business. or find a way to have your employees work harder and smarter. when you hire kids, this is what you get. they leave at the first opportunity for someone who will pay more. your ability to pay or not does not garnish you the power to keep them, or to degrade them. and maybe thats why you cant keep emploeeys... your attitude.

i have a friend who wanted to open a restaurant in a well visited resort area. he was worried about training and retention, and asked my opinion. i explained that to get the best, he would have to pay above industry standards... in order to keep them. he took my adive, thankfully. his business is thriving with a low employee turn over. employees, who arent in the high school range, have to pay bills. they are less likely to job jump from one position that pays over standards to another than pays minimum.

now that is just sound business sense.

what doesnt make sense is someone expecting adults to take bullshit dished out by some manager who feels her profit margin is more valuable than longevity in industry. yeah, profits are great, its why businesses are there. those who KNOW realize that to stay marketable it requires a juggling act between keeping customers and employees happy.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 8:51:18 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I would urge anyone affected by this to get some skills and get a better job. I know it is easier said than done, but the way things are looking even those crappy jobs will dwindle. Now is the time, if you are going to lose it, do it now with the crowd.

There are some new emergent technologies which could be studied after the basics are down pat. Other than that I would say that working in the computer field for the medical industry would be the best choice right now. I would persue it if not for my carreer. Incidentally I might have to do something in the future because the future in my field looks pretty bleak. It is OK for now but I still have too many working years to go. Think of me in my fifties faced with the same situation.

At any rate, be proactive in this. Who can make it on minimum wage these days anyway ? That's $290 per week. And that is not take home pay either. So out of perhaps $700 something per month, well rents for anything but a shoebox are around $500 a month, and that is around here, one of the most depressed areas of the US. What does that leave you for food, gas, insurance, beer (or whatever your fancy), clothes, medicine, and I can't even think of the complete list. And that is just the expected expenses, what happens when the tranny goes in the car and it's over two grand to fix it ? Like I said, you just can't make it, not really.

The reason, and the existence of a minimum wage is appalling in the first place. There would be no need except for the fact that there are too many people scrambling for the same job. A buddy of mine - can drive (in Ohio that is a big thing), can drive a towtruck, a semi, operate heavy equipment, is an extremely hard worker and is willing to take anything. He went to apply at McDonald's and says that they told him they have Phds applying for work there.

The quick solution, which is sometimes what one needs, is to find a need and fill it in that spare time. Find a way to work for yourself if you can. Actually if you find your niche you might never again have to worry about minimum wage.

Best of luck whatever you do, but with cut hours at least you have some freedom to figure something out, or go to school or whatever. You can't force them to give you the hours, but you might be able to get even more somewhere else. Try a little entrepeneurial spirit while you figure out what to do.

T

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 8:56:45 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with your advice. Now is a perfect time to go back and get training. Nursing is begging for help. The medical field is pretty open.

As far as your friend, have him look on craigslist. i see many jobs for truckers, forklift operators, ect. maybe he should expand his search if he has a car. pittsburgh isnt doing too badly in this economy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:05:19 AM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		(Says the woman on the very expensive computer, in the nice home, who has enough disposable income brought in from her near-slave labor, that she can afford to clad herself in a fucking expensive latex dress in her avatar photo...) Yeah, sister, testify! Tell all those of us who have had those shit jobs how utterly useless we were to folks like you, who wouldn't lift a fucking finger to do the kind of back breaking, mind-numbing scut work you wouldn't "degrade yourself" to do. Like it or not, minimum wage is federal law. Either pay it, or go to jail... I don't particularly care which.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:13:08 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess it didn't work out that way for MissJanice. Her hours were cut after it was implimented, not before. The government put an additional burden on her company and she is the one suffering.


No, the taxpayers are the ones suffering.

The current minimum wage is just above $15K a year. 

The people who live on that have to get government assistance to survive.

So, in effect, holding the minimum wage to an artificially low level is a government subsidy for the businesses that employ those workers.

You know, corporate socialism.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:16:14 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I am not familiar with her company. Maybe this was the straw that broke the camels back. If the money isn't there, it just isn't there.


Which then has nothing to do with the minimum wage but instead that company's overall financial problems.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:19:12 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Did you folks forget to take your happy pill today ? Why the animousity ? Throw your experience up in each others' faces. Call names. I think this is beneath us. I hope your hubris didn't get this thread tossed, because I was trying to be helpful.

I have not much to add, because some posts in this thread might get pulled, and if that happens so will this because it refers specifically to them. You know who you are, and aren't.

T

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:22:23 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Gotta love, though, that the irate name-calling expert business owner is the only one who didn't know the law had changed.

Not too big an impact on her business, then.........



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:38:05 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		MM, there is another big issue with this. I see a growing trend and rather than hijack I will bring it up in another thread.

T

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:38:52 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Ok kinda of a thread jump here, but it is somewhat connected to the MW.

When you read that thing on employee rights the feds make every business post for their employees, it states "full time work is considered any hours over 30 worked per week" or something close to that

So why are so many business getting away with having people work 36 hours a week (our local Wal Mart does this)  and still consider them part time thus not able to receive benefits such as insurance?

As to the MW, in Illinois it is 8 bucks an hour and no one is closing because of that issue (least ways not on the news bitching or anyone I know), lack of orders and work is a huge issue they are facing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:45:36 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		To those who think that every small business can afford this and other mandates, why not just make the minimum wage $15.00 an hour.? Sock it to those greedy business owners.

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 9:57:00 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And businesses that need the labor can't just cut people for the hell of it. If labor is being trimmed back, it was excessive capacity. If there were truly work, they'd be hiring, even at a higher minimum.


This is not necessarily true. I don't work in a minimum wage environment but my company has chosen not to replace several people who have retired this year. As a result they expect those of us who are left to pick up the slack and it is not happening because we simply do not have enough manpower. We are down to a skeleton crew and the lower priority work (preventative maintenance or repairing systems that are running but not running at full capacity) is not being completed. It's real work that needs to be done and it is going to bite them on the ass eventually. I suspect ours is not an isolated scenario and in my case I am talking about a big international company whose ads you see everywhere you go.

So you see... it's not nearly as simple as "if there was work they'd be hiring".



(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 10:00:53 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

I suspect ours is not an isolated scenario and in my case I am talking about a big international company whose ads you see everywhere you go.


Same thing is happening where I work as well and I'm a government job. When someone retires or leaves we're not replacing them. Everyone else has to pick up the slack and we are extremely shorthanded right now. We used to even hire teens in the summer and we no longer are doing that. We're not even allowed to reorder supplies unless it's absolutely necessary and we can prove it's a need.


(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 10:05:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To those who think that every small business can afford this and other mandates, why not just make the minimum wage $15.00 an hour.? Sock it to those greedy business owners.


Again, you're ignoring the economic arguments.

$15 would arguably be above market equilibrium, and hence foolish. You jump to a mischaracterization about what people believe about small businesses.

Demand for products will still call for business to supply them. To do so, businesses need labor. If a business cuts labor, it's not because of the wage change--if the wage now made profitability impossible, the business would close (in the long run). Or, much more likely for any real business, adjust to market conditions, just as all good businesses do continually.

There's also a case to be made for the increase fueling an increase in consumer spending, something the economy could certainly use at present.

Further, any business relying on cost cutting solely or primarily for profitability is a very poorly run business and dying. What about expanding sales and markets? Why are some customers buying from the competition? What services would improve business? What changes to the business plan are now in order to adjust to changing times? [I was in music wholesale when CDs were introduced, for example....]

Half a century ago, economist/management Peter Drucker penned a host of books showing how labor is a resource, not a cost, and a key component of growing and sustaining a successful operation.

A century ago, Henry Ford stunned the world with his "stupidity" in offering "the $5 day," an incredibly high wage at the time. Nuts? It was so successful that the next year he instituted the $6 day.

Turnover is expensive. It's a nonproductive cost. Cutting it is worth the price.

And the purpose of business is to produce goods. That takes resources--especially labor. A business cutting labor isn't facing high labor costs--it's facing poor sales and poor sales projections. The workers it lays off go to work for the competition across town, or for businesses adjusting to new markets.

Even in a slow economy, people have needs and wants, and demand goods and services. That takes workers.


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 10:07:13 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Could it be said that the minimum wage increase is a new tax on the middle class, I wonder?

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To those who think that every small business can afford this and other mandates, why not just make the minimum wage $15.00 an hour.? Sock it to those greedy business owners.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 10:09:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This is not necessarily true. I don't work in a minimum wage environment but my company has chosen not to replace several people who have retired this year. As a result they expect those of us who are left to pick up the slack and it is not happening because we simply do not have enough manpower. We are down to a skeleton crew and the lower priority work (preventative maintenance or repairing systems that are running but not running at full capacity) is not being completed. It's real work that needs to be done and it is going to bite them on the ass eventually. I suspect ours is not an isolated scenario and in my case I am talking about a big international company whose ads you see everywhere you go.

So you see... it's not nearly as simple as "if there was work they'd be hiring".


It is, though.

Either they are right, that the business can indeed be run with the smaller crew, or you are right, that they are foolishly ignoring needs. Poor management is common; cost cutting is easy, but often not as good an idea as it may seem (as you have noted).

And, of course, your situation is a function of a slow economy, not the minimum wage. But if they had unfilled orders day after day after day, they would hire. They would have to.

In the meantime, from your description, I agree they are setting themselves up for some expensive bites in the ass.

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 10:50:54 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Could it be said that the minimum wage increase is a new tax on the middle class, I wonder?


Did you just want to tell us you are wondering, or was there a point associated with that?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Minimium Wage Rant - 8/9/2009 12:33:52 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		Michigan's useless legislature is mulling over upping Michigan's minimum wage to $10 an hour. Aside from ridiculously taxing tobacco products, this seems to be their only idea to help Michigan.

Yep, let's raise it to such a ridiculous degree that companies will lay off half their workers, and raise their prices yet again to offset the cost of paying their workers.

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The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 40
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