RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)"

RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:04:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What Palin is asking is perfectly legit, some are just to blind to realize that. She's not asking anything - she's stating it as a fact. If she were asking, it would be a legitimate question, but to state it as a fact is nothing but a lie.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:06:08 AM)
Fine, she made a statement. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What Palin is asking is perfectly legit, some are just to blind to realize that. She's not asking anything - she's stating it as a fact. If she were asking, it would be a legitimate question, but to state it as a fact is nothing but a lie.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:08:03 AM)
She told a lie. And used her son - the one she said was off limits in political discussions - to sell the lie.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:09:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity She has every right to be pissed off. I'm pissed off too, especially over the way Obama is handling this entire debate. Well, I'm right there with you on that one! The guy is a one-man Three Stooges film fest, as far as I'm concerned.

rulemylife -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:11:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity So, if we can find prettier names for what's done, it will be acceptable? What exactly is going to be done? Will there be a "death panel" that will appropriate health care according to a person's "level of productivity in society" and decide who lives and dies, as Sarah says? Will this be Soylent Green becoming reality? If you can't recognize this for the nonsense it is I don't what to tell you.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:15:07 AM)
Not a lie as far as I'm concerned, and what should have been off limits were all the personal attacks on her family. Which she was right on that point as well, they should be off limits, for any politician. Why do we even have to argue that. Are you really trying to say that if she mentions a family member it should be alright to level the nastiest personal attacks imaginable against them? It's incredible to me that we're even arguing this. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda She told a lie. And used her son - the one she said was off limits in political discussions - to sell the lie.

Apocalypso -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:16:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda She told a lie. And used her son - the one she said was off limits in political discussions - to sell the lie. It doesn't matter. Her son is still off limits in political discussions, whatever she does. Attack your political opponents all you like, but kids are over the line. And I felt this when Chelsea Clinton was being attacked and I feel it here. I don't like Palin. But, if anything, I'm going to hold people I consider my allies to higher standards on this, not less. We should be above this shit. Seriously.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:21:37 AM)
"Free" health care will have to be rationed, and hard decisions will have to be made. Very hard decisions, and that's her entire point. You just don't like the way she said it because she really hit the nail on the head! quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity So, if we can find prettier names for what's done, it will be acceptable? What exactly is going to be done? Will there be a "death panel" that will appropriate health care according to a person's "level of productivity in society" and decide who lives and dies, as Sarah says? Will this be Soylent Green becoming reality? If you can't recognize this for the nonsense it is I don't what to tell you.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:25:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Not a lie as far as I'm concerned, Then have you got a link showing that the elderly and disabled will be required to appear before government death panels to plead for their lives? If not, then stating it as a fact is a lie. Pure and simple. quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity and what should have been off limits were all the personal attacks on her family. Which she was right on that point as well, they should be off limits, for any politician. No, she has said (and her supporters have said on numerous occasions) that mentioning her family in the context of any political issue was off-limits. And that's exactly what she has done here herself. quote: ORIGINAL: SanityWhy do we even have to argue that. Are you really trying to say that if she mentions a family member it should be alright to level the nastiest personal attacks imaginable against them? Where did I say anything even remotely resembling that?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:28:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity "Free" health care will have to be rationed, and hard decisions will have to be made. Very hard decisions, and that's her entire point. Then why didn't she just say that, instead of making up totally bullshit lies about "death panels?" quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity You just don't like the way she said it because she really hit the nail on the head! I'm really looking forward to seeing those links to the part of the bill that describes these "death panels."

rulemylife -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:34:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity "Free" health care will have to be rationed, and hard decisions will have to be made. Very hard decisions, and that's her entire point. You just don't like the way she said it because she really hit the nail on the head! No, I don't like the way she said it because it is inflammatory and confrontational and is only designed to stoke people's fears, not have any legitimate debate on the subject. And those hard decisions are made every day, only it is insurance company bureaucrats making the decision based on their company's bottom line. Myself, I would tend to trust those without a profit motive.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Then have you got a link showing that the elderly and disabled will be required to appear before government death panels to plead for their lives? If not, then stating it as a fact is a lie. Pure and simple. No, she has said (and her supporters have said on numerous occasions) that mentioning her family in the context of any political issue was off-limits. And that's exactly what she has done here herself. Come on, Panda - you would have to believe a lie to really think that there is such a thing as unlimited amounts of totally free health care, and that it will magically become available for everybody if those evil fucking Republicans will just let Obama write the check. There are limited resources available. Sacrifices will have to be made. Sacrifices. Obama uses that word, and its a fitting word. Only real question in this context is, what sacrifices, and who decides. And what would we name the panels of bureaucrats in charge. Palin is on the right track is posing this statement for consideration, and I'm not at all surprised to see the familiar people out trying once again to demonize her over it. "OH MY FUCKING GAWD, SHE MENTIONED HER KID - SHE CAN'T DO THAT!!!!" Phhht, give me a break. What was asked was that the rape jokes stop. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Where did I say anything even remotely resembling that? How about you provide a link proving that Palin ever said her kids could never be mentioned in any context of any kind, by anyone, ever?

LaTigresse -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:45:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Like I said, demonize her all you want, but I ain't a part of that religion, I don't sing in your chorus, and I ain't buying into it the dogma. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse The thing that frightens me is that ANYone would understand her. I am not giving her enough credit to demonize her. I am simply calling her too stupid to be coherent.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 11:48:58 AM)
She's being inflammatory and confrontational ? Let me guess - that's only bad when Conservatives do it, right. And currently, health care decisions through insurance companies are contractual. You get what you negotiate and pay for. With Obama care, take a number and good luck. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity "Free" health care will have to be rationed, and hard decisions will have to be made. Very hard decisions, and that's her entire point. You just don't like the way she said it because she really hit the nail on the head! No, I don't like the way she said it because it is inflammatory and confrontational and is only designed to stoke people's fears, not have any legitimate debate on the subject. And those hard decisions are made every day, only it is insurance company bureaucrats making the decision based on their company's bottom line. Myself, I would tend to trust those without a profit motive.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 12:01:44 PM)
Okay, so you're engaging in name calling as opposed to demonization. I suppose there is a difference, however slight. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I am not giving her enough credit to demonize her. I am simply calling her too stupid to be coherent.

rulemylife -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 12:02:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity She's being inflammatory and confrontational ? Let me guess - that's only bad when Conservatives do it, right. Ah yes, the conservative victim mentality that seems to be passing for political discussion these days. It's bad no matter who does it, but we are discussing a specific quote from Sarah Palin. quote: And currently, health care decisions through insurance companies are contractual. You get what you negotiate and pay for. With Obama care, take a number and good luck. And how often have patients had to take their insurers to court to honor that contract? If you google you will find thousands of links. And a government program is also contractually obligated to provide what the laws says it has to, but there is no profit motive for government employees to try to deny the care that is promised.

Sanity -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 12:15:44 PM)
You apparently don't know what a "victim mentality" is. This is a victim mentality - with "inflammatory" and "confrontational" thrown in for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifjRVLVjzA [;)] And when some future Obamacare bureaucrat tells you you're out of luck, where do you go to complain. To the government? I don't think so! quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity She's being inflammatory and confrontational ? Let me guess - that's only bad when Conservatives do it, right. Ah yes, the conservative victim mentality that seems to be passing for political discussion these days. It's bad no matter who does it, but we are discussing a specific quote from Sarah Palin. quote: And currently, health care decisions through insurance companies are contractual. You get what you negotiate and pay for. With Obama care, take a number and good luck. And how often have patients had to take their insurers to court to honor that contract? If you google you will find thousands of links. And a government program is also contractually obligated to provide what the laws says it has to, but there is no profit motive for government employees to try to deny the care that is promised.

DomKen -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 12:58:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity You can't guarantee any such thing! Thinking you can is naive... quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen No what Palin is saying isn't legit. Health care is already rationed in this country. If single payer is ever implemented I can guarantee that a child with trisomy won't be denied care simply because of that condition and everyone but the extraordinarily wealthy will receive better quality health care. Every single industrialized western nation has better health care than the US and all of those nations also have single payer. Single payer will result in better health care except for that tiny fraction of the population that can pay cash at Mayo.

rulemylife -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 1:13:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity You apparently don't know what a "victim mentality" is. I'm pretty sure I do, I've been listening to it for several years now. The media is liberal biased. [sm=river.gif] George Bush is being vilified for no reason. [sm=river.gif] Poor Sarah is being attacked mercilessly. [sm=river.gif] I tell you, when I watch Hannity or Beck, or listen to Limbaugh, it's like I'm hearing a support group. "Come in and share your plight my friend, how have you been victimized by the evil liberals?" It actually makes me feel sort of sorry for them that they've been reduced to this pathetic whining. Sort of. OK, not really.

TheHeretic -> RE: "Leave My Family Out Of It (Except When I Want To Use Them)" (8/9/2009 1:19:30 PM)
[sm=rofl.gif] The conservative victim mentality. I love it, RML. If you are going to spout horseshit, by all means, go big.

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