Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worship Him?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worship Him? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 8:29:21 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

... It would be nice to understand why people who aren't Christians so often presume to tell those who are about the beliefs of Christians.


lol... A head scratcher, isn't it?


Yes it is. And an even bigger one to me is why can't people just believe or not believe as they wish and quite trying to trash the beliefs of others? If you are not a Christian, that is superfinecool with me. I feel no need to denigrate you, call you foolish, make fun of your deity or lack thereof or anything else negative. What is so humorous and pathetic is the constant stream of hateful things said trying to "disprove" God's existence, insist that Jesus doesn't exist or wasn't divine and many other things. If you don't believe, goody for you. But do ya really have to put down everything about those who do to boost yourself up? And...btw...this goes for anyone who feels the need to trash anyone else's beliefs whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jewish or athiest. Believe what you want and shaddup already

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 8:51:18 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'd seriously bring your knowledge and understanding of the Bible into question.
[ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


Ok.....let's be a bit more specific. What part of my statement do you find incorrect and therefore lacking in knowledge or understanding? Is it the genocide thing? Is it the mass killings and torture to prove a point to a celestial debating partner? Could it be the doctrine that if you do not believe in, worship, and beg, you will be damned into eternal torment in hell? Which part haven't you read in the bible? Please tell me which one's you doubt and I'll be glad to quote you chapter and verse.

I just happen to suggest examining the logic of "God is holy and good. God did X. Therefore X is holy and good". I ask you to think of this logic instead: "X is holy and good. Not X is not holy or good. Therefore, God's choice of X or Not X determines whether he is holy or good". And when you start examining things that way, then you come up with some interesting possibilities.



(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:02:36 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

But do ya really have to put down everything about those who do to boost yourself up?

I am not putting anything down. I have studied many religions in my day. Over the years I have read a lot of books on the subject (granted most of them on Christianity, that is the cultural idiom I was raised in). I have read most of the Bible (I skipped some of the duller OT books), I have read the New Testament, I have read Augustine and Aquinas, I have studied the various flavours of Protestantism and the differences of dogma that differentiate them. I have read a translation of The Gospel of Thomas, I have read an interpretation of the Quran (I have not read the original or a translation of it), I have read on the teachings of the Buddha, of Zoroaster,and a bit on the Ba'hai faith. I have read the Bhagvad Gita (that was a really really long time ago in my drugy days so please don't ask me to interpret it). As well I have read much of the pagan religions, particularly those of the near east. You were aware, were you not, that the various miraculous aspects of Jesus' life story as presented in the Gospels are mirrored quite precisely in the myths of Tammuz, Adonis, Horus,and Mithras, right?

I am genuinely interested in questions of theology and cosmology, particularly the similarities between the various teachings (it is in the similarities that I believe we glimpse the truth). One result of all this reading is that I am aware of the discrepancies between what is professed, and what is practiced. I do not comment much on Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist dogma simply because I do not really feel qualified to do so. However, I do know a lot about the various sects of Christianity, their beliefs and their history, and I see discrepancies, and assertions of matters of faith made with no scriptural basis. So I question. I believe there is a passage in the Epistles somewhere that enjoins one to do just that, however in my case rather than strengthening my faith, the answers I have received to my questions has eroded it.

I do not denigrate your beliefs, I question them from an honest desire to resolve the issues I see that detract from the lessons taught by the various Christian sects. Just as I have in the past questioned Jews, Muslims,and Buddhists on the apparent discrepancies between what is written and what is practised.  (I don't understand Hinduism enough to even begin to ask intelligent questions).


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:05:41 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Hmm....

Let us assume that God is Omnipotent, and Omniscient.

All-Powerful.... as if simple words can describe such mysteries.

Okay...

God knows for a fact that Adam and Eve are going to eat the apple and gain self-knowledge. God knew that satan-the morning star-was going to fall.

Yet... God told Adam to not eat it-under any circumstance. God knows that Satan is going to fuck his shit up... all the time. Satan, the shaker-upper of things.... gets things going.

Satan the serpent convinces Adam and Eve to eat the apple... and now they feel naked, which leads to their sons Cain and Abel to hate each other. Stabbing of sorts ensues.

God knows his children are going to be rebellious bastards. Without the rebels there would be no expansion. No curiosity to go to other continents, to go to space. To figure out The Big Explodie Guy. To witness literal Hells and Heavens and to fall down at your knees and yell "OKAY. I GIVE IN!!! I AM LETTING GO NOW."

You are not meant to understand God. Wait ten-thousand years for the human mind to transcend its current limitations. For now let life happen.

Am I making ANY sense here?

The more you know the less you understand.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:10:11 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Hmm....

Let us assume that God is Omnipotent, and Omniscient.

All-Powerful.... as if simple words can describe such mysteries.

Okay...

God knows for a fact that Adam and Eve are going to eat the apple and gain self-knowledge. God knew that satan-the morning star-was going to fall.

Yet... God told Adam to not eat it-under any circumstance. God knows that Satan is going to fuck his shit up... all the time. Satan, the shaker-upper of things.... gets things going.

Satan the serpent convinces Adam and Eve to eat the apple... and now they feel naked, which leads to their sons Cain and Abel to hate each other. Stabbing of sorts ensues.

God knows his children are going to be rebellious bastards. Without the rebels there would be no expansion. No curiosity to go to other continents, to go to space. To figure out The Big Explodie Guy. To witness literal Hells and Heavens and to fall down at your knees and yell "OKAY. I GIVE IN!!! I AM LETTING GO NOW."

You are not meant to understand God. Wait ten-thousand years for the human mind to transcend its current limitations. For now let life happen.

Am I making ANY sense here?

The more you know the less you understand.



Then God knows that His "children" need His approval, His understanding and love and protection. Why does He then punish his "children" for seeking those things in the often cruel and unjust world that exists. To me the literal interpretation leaves a spiteful, child-like God...thus again, why I don't take the bible literally.

boi


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:12:52 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
That's kinda like purposeful set-up for failure and I kinda resent that.


More along the lines of purposeful setup for non-consensual, everlasting sadism and torture.

And the tenets needed to follow that line of logic aren't just those espoused by the literalists.

The judeo-christian notion of free will (as far as their deity is concerned) is a mirage.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:15:48 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

You are not meant to understand God.

Which, if we grant this any credence, means the deity is an intentionally secretive bastard for no apparent (sensible) reason.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 8/9/2009 9:16:01 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:20:26 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Ok.....let's be a bit more specific. What part of my statement do you find incorrect and therefore lacking in knowledge or understanding? Is it the genocide thing? Is it the mass killings and torture to prove a point to a celestial debating partner? Could it be the doctrine that if you do not believe in, worship, and beg, you will be damned into eternal torment in hell? Which part haven't you read in the bible? Please tell me which one's you doubt and I'll be glad to quote you chapter and verse.

I just happen to suggest examining the logic of "God is holy and good. God did X. Therefore X is holy and good". I ask you to think of this logic instead: "X is holy and good. Not X is not holy or good. Therefore, God's choice of X or Not X determines whether he is holy or good". And when you start examining things that way, then you come up with some interesting possibilities.


lol... Perhaps it's just too late in the evening for me to decipher this, but at this point in time I'm tempted to call your knowledge and understanding of the English language into question, too. 

Maybe tomorrow I'll give it another try.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:28:57 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		NihilusZero,

God does not hold the secrets. We do. Everything we need to know God lays out.
I'll take the ever-lasting torture-it comes some beautiful sunsets, interesting creatures, and other pleasures such as philosophical discussion with you.

Jenboi,

While the bible is entertaining to me... I try not to take it literally. It was written by men and woman who are prone to emotion and fallacy.
By his "children" do you mean all of existence? I like the belief that since I am a part of God as much as the dirt is God "Cares" for us both just the same.
------
Seek to understand yourself rather than God. The rest will follow.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I am human and fallible and most likely wrong and insane.

Have a nice day.


< Message edited by pyroaquatic -- 8/9/2009 9:32:47 PM >

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 9:35:00 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

NihilusZero,

God does not hold the secrets. We do. Everything we need to know God lays out.

The issue with deities is that either: A) You presume to know what they do and how they are, or B) you don't.

In order to be able to say that this creature has "laid everything out", you having to know this. And short of professing to have a direct com-link connection to said deity, there's no way to ascertain this. How do you know "he" doesn't hold secrets? How do you know anything about this creature at all in a means any different from knowing what your imaginary friend in elementary school thought?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

I'll take the ever-lasting torture-it comes some beautiful sunsets, interesting creatures, and other pleasures such as philosophical discussion with you.

So, aside from the fact that, if the judeo-christian deity is real, we don't have another option for life other than submission to his psychotic rule, what makes any of the pros attractive if given to you by an abuser?

The argument for the judeo-christian deity is in fact an argument to stay in an abusive relationship , at worst, or a non-consensual M/s relationship (at best).


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:20:38 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone who worships God has neurological problems or is on drugs or is stupid. If they are stupid they need to study astronomy, physics and evolutionary biology. It absolutely amazes me that people waste their time praying to something that doesn't exist. It's like a child asking Santa Claus to provide a new bicycle for Christmas. Of course there is no Santa Claus and it's the parent or parents that end up providing the bike.

God is an asshole, anybody that would ask a person to kill their own child is evil. Doesn't Charles Manson thinks he is God or Jesus?
Isn't Charles Manson evil?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Ok....here's a question to chew upon.

According the the bible (we can stick with Jeudeo-Christianity), God is a bloodthirsty being who commands and/or commits genocide, is willing to kill scores of innocents and torture one who really loves him just to prove a point to another celestial creature, and who sentences most of the world's population to an eternal torture with no hope of redemption based on whether or not that person worships him in the manner he wishes to be worshiped. Given these facts (fact based on the holy books of the religions that support him), it can be argued that this God is either insane or evil.

My question is this: If it is true that this is a less than laudable being, is it still incumbent upon us to worship him because a) he created everything, b) he is the boss and/or c) because he will sentence us to eternal torture if we do not? In short, does a God (using the biblical definition of what God is) have to be good in order to be worshiped?

I'm interested in the opinions on this one.




(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:28:39 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
The argument for the judeo-christian deity is in fact an argument to stay in an abusive relationship , at worst, or a non-consensual M/s relationship (at best).


However, if it's that or an eternity of infinite fucking torment, it seems that pragmatism weighs one pretty heavily towards cowing and saying "Yes massah, doan' beat po' slave!", doesn't it?


(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:34:18 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Anyone who worships God has neurological problems or is on drugs or is stupid. If they are stupid they need to study astronomy, physics and evolutionary biology.
Well, here I am moved to ask...what in any of those disciplines will disprove the existence of God? To my mind, the more you study them, the more evident the existence of a deity becomes.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:36:47 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

God does not hold the secrets. We do. Everything we need to know God lays out.
I'll take the ever-lasting torture-it comes some beautiful sunsets, interesting creatures, and other pleasures such as philosophical discussion with you.



God holds secrets. Everytime someone prays to God asking what comes next, when they've lost their families and jobs, God holds secrets. God gave Adam and Eve (lets not bring in the woman that came as a total separation from Adam, the one from before, the one most Christians forget about...Lillith), the choice to fuck up or stay in eternal beauty and since they choose fuck up, every single individual soul has paid for the exercise of free will (literal interpretation here). Recently, the US gov't decided not to pay reparations to the descendants of slaves. One of the arguments against paying these reparations is that the descendants aren't the one's who were wronged and this current gov't isn't the one that wronged the original victims. We do not punish a man's son for his dead father's crimes. Why is God is malicious to hold individual souls for a wrong that happened so long ago that our very existence was only in the conceivable mind of God Himself?

This doesn't make any sense.

boi


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:42:05 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

NihilusZero,

God does not hold the secrets. We do. Everything we need to know God lays out.

The issue with deities is that either: A) You presume to know what they do and how they are, or B) you don't.

In order to be able to say that this creature has "laid everything out", you having to know this. And short of professing to have a direct com-link connection to said deity, there's no way to ascertain this. How do you know "he" doesn't hold secrets? How do you know anything about this creature at all in a means any different from knowing what your imaginary friend in elementary school thought?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

I'll take the ever-lasting torture-it comes some beautiful sunsets, interesting creatures, and other pleasures such as philosophical discussion with you.

So, aside from the fact that, if the judeo-christian deity is real, we don't have another option for life other than submission to his psychotic rule, what makes any of the pros attractive if given to you by an abuser?

The argument for the judeo-christian deity is in fact an argument to stay in an abusive relationship , at worst, or a non-consensual M/s relationship (at best).



We have come this far NihilusZero. Everything we think we know and everything we are about to know. Science is constantly tested until it is consistent and accurate. There must be some margin of error somewhere and dang nabbit those scientists are going to find it somewhere. There are no secrets.

Murder:do not hide your tragedy and you will be caught.
Murder: try to hide your tragedy and the process of foresnics will most likely get you caught. Even then you still know you Murdered and that persona is missing from someones mind. A 'game' with incomplete information.

I do have a direct communication with God but not with words. I listen to the universe and construct an image likewise. How do I know God does not hold secrets? Science. Tests.

How do I know God exists? I am in God. I am a God in my imagination.
----------------
Judeo-Christian. Too limited and it leaves a funny taste in my mouth.

God makes people. People have brains. Some people are crazy, abusive, and all of those other traits. God encompasses everything.

I do not care if you think I am wrong or right, or crazy. I am curious as to how your mind works.

Is there anything wrong with my thought processes? Why do you have to see God as some imaginary nonexistant being?

Do you know what exists beyond the walls of your room without seeing it? Is it some sort of evil/good/insane/just God? I guess what is not immediately perceived is categorized under 'something scientists will figure out someday'.

Jenboi,

We do not know the future until it happens and passes. It is no longer a 'secret'.

Thank you for the discussion

~Pyroaquatic

< Message edited by pyroaquatic -- 8/9/2009 10:47:19 PM >

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:42:09 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

the one most Christians forget about...Lillith
Well, actually they don't forget about her for the simple reason that she is not part of the story.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 10:47:13 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
I understand that I was created in God's image.

I just don't understand why he doesn't have a bigger penis.

chia* (the pet)


_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 11:18:13 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Everything in those disciplines will disprove the existence of God. The more you study them you the more you realize there is no evidence whatsoever of the existence of God.

It's not possible to prove God exists because he/she doesn't exist. There is nothing out in the universe except other galaxies and planets and stars and black holes. God is not in a black hole. I can't understand why people believe in stupid things that are not real.


The Birth of the Universe Big Bang and Beyond
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZqhqR5XKM

watch chapter 1 in
QuickTime
RealVideo

Today, Einstein's goal of combining the physical laws of the universe in one theory that explains it all is the Holy Grail of modern physics.
running time 6:21


Einstein's Dream
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Anyone who worships God has neurological problems or is on drugs or is stupid. If they are stupid they need to study astronomy, physics and evolutionary biology.
Well, here I am moved to ask...what in any of those disciplines will disprove the existence of God? To my mind, the more you study them, the more evident the existence of a deity becomes.



(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 11:22:24 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Everything in those disciplines will disprove the existence of God.
Name one thing in any of them that disproves the existence of God.

quote:

There is nothing out in the universe except other galaxies and planets and stars and black holes.
What has that to do with the existence of God?

quote:

God is not in a black hole.
Who ever said God did?


< Message edited by Arpig -- 8/9/2009 11:24:18 PM >

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worsh... - 8/9/2009 11:47:24 PM   
DanaYielding


Posts: 72
Joined: 12/11/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, some facets of this multilogue are quite interesting in a logico/philisophico way. It's difficult to not want to interject personal feelings/beliefs into such a discussion. That being said...If i live as Christianity teaches, and there is no God, then I have led a life that has benefitted not only myself but others through me, but if I lead a life contrary to the teachings of Christianity, and there is a God, and the Christian teachings are correct, ... I don't think I want to be so condemned to that hell.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: If God is Insane and/or Evil, Should We Still Worship Him? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094