RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (Full Version)

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OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/25/2009 11:28:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming You would trust a dom with your life, but not your money? [8\|] That's fucked up. That's a statistically safe gamble. There are very, very few recreational killers in active circulation; limit it to just the females, and the global population probably isn't enough to fill a high school gymnasium. On the other hand, there aren't enough prisons in the world to hold all the petty crooks, confidence scammers, and opportunistic thieves.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/25/2009 11:42:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I have yet to see a 31 page thread that began as a dominant male waxing poetic on his female slave's excellent cock sucking ability and ended up bashing all male dominants for wanting their cocks sucked.[:D] Maybe because they're not quite crass enough to close it with a jibe about how any woman who won't suck cock to their satisfaction isn't a "real woman"? I bet that would result in a lively discussion.

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/25/2009 11:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste That's a statistically safe gamble. There are very, very few recreational killers in active circulation; limit it to just the females, and the global population probably isn't enough to fill a high school gymnasium. Furthermore, legal consequences of killing help make the gamble statistically safer when comparing the two. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 12:19:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SaharahEve I too often wonder why some people within this subculture get so frustrated and bothered by what other consenting adults are doing. That is a fair question to ask. I have no issues if Manthing gives gifts to TexasMaam, or if she requires him to give tribute and he also wishes to do so. I think one reason this thread has taken such a course is because her post positions her dynamic as the true way, and denigrates those who do not do the same. Still, there is more to the matter because one can point to other threads that, at least, did not begin with the type of post that began this thread and still led to a similar discussion. I reflected as I was typing a prior post why there might be significant opposition to cuckoldry and yet not the same volume of objections and discussion from subs when the matter arises in forums. I think one reason for this difference is that the matter about financial play is not always in the realm of consent. It is often sought without regard to how the other feels about the matter. I make this statement mostly based on what I see in profiles and posts, and partially based on what I have personally experienced a few times. This effort to seek it without regard to how the other feels is common enough where it can create the same type of response in subs which dommes might feel upon encountering a sub who seeks to sexually use a domme without regard to how she feels about the matter (because she encounters such a scenario frequently). To convey my point, if we think back to discussions in this forum where a sub begins a discussion that carries a flavor of sexually using a domme, many dommes do object to his post. Why? It is not directed at these dommes specifically. I think the reason is that it is directed at them indirectly by being generally addressed against the group with which they identify and, thus, creates a sense of indignation. If one can understand why some dommes respond as they do in such situations, one should be able to extend the same reasoning to why some subs respond as they do when the matter seems to be directed at a group in general. If dommes who speak in favor of financial submission are referring only to subs who themselves seek it, it would help if they use appropriate wording. That said, I am confident I can go back in this thread and pull out posts (beyond just the OP) where it is not simply a matter of inprecise wording but that the domme in question believes this practice should be adopted by all. Aside from the point about consent, I think another reason for the difference in responses to threads about cuckoldry and threads about tributes is that the matter of financial play leaves more room for ulterior motives than cuckoldry does. When one seeks a cuckold, there is less room that it is not for sake of kink than when one seeks a financial submissive. Given what one sees across people, it is my belief that scenarios driven by ulterior motives or greed outnumber scenarios driven by kink. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 1:29:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TexasMaam I'm actually secretly thrilled to learn that I'm a greedy, judgemental, tactless golddigger. >>>>shivverrr!<<<< mmm, delicious!>>>>rubs her hands together in excited anticipation of yet another lot of booty!<<<<<<< where is that manthing, anyway? [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] I always kind of admired that type, in a funny sort of way. You know, that girl on the cheerleading squad who dated the Quarterback for all the things he could do for her, not because she had any real respect for him...... I have no admiration for the type you describe. I might feel a masochistic intrigue but I have no admiration for her character, and the latter sentiment prevails over the former. I also have no admiration for a con man who deceives others. In general, I have no admiration for people who deceive or use people for whom they have no respect regardless of which sex they are. I do not direct this comment at you or suggest that your dynamic is based on such principles, but I do direct it at the type you celebrate in your post. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 2:12:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama I've come to the conclusion that all Money Threads are just another flavor of my culture's favorite sport, which is woman-bashing. Don't know bout the rest of y'all but round here in Texas the culture's favorite sport is football ;-) Sure, threads arise where one gender is venting against the other. As I consider the relative numbers of each type, I do not see any indication that there is a cultural effort to bash women. Where this thread raises objection against women, it is not against all women but at those women who engage in financial play with insincere, unfair intentions. And the behavior that is questioned is not female behavior but behavior seen across humans. I believe that the matter of tribute is prevalent in the Fm dynamic more so than any other dynamic because circumstances allow for it. If circumstances allowed male subs or male doms to seek it, I expect we would see a number of them seek it. That others would seek opportunism when given the opportunity does not change the merits of the matter. quote: Stereotypically, this culture allows women to exercise only sexual power, and then only for a brief duration of time (usually from ages 15-35). All other modes of power, especially financial, are reserved for men. That there are women (including yourself :) ) who can put claim to power by their professional achievements, social achievements, financial success and various other forms of power demonstrates that other forms of power are available to women. I do not claim that women do not encounter difficulties that are specific to women. However, I disagree that they are allowed only sexual power. Instead I think sexual power is the form of power most easily available to them and it is their choice to draw upon a broader arsenal. My sister is a beautiful woman (it's in our genes ;-) ) and she has achieved her professional success by virtue of her work ethic and social skills. My mother is a retired professor in her late 60s who still pursues her field and won a prestigious professional award in recent years, which she did based on her professional skills and contributions. I can make similar statements about various friends and women with whom I have or have had friendly or romantic relationships. Akasha often speaks of her financial power in her relationship, and there are many other women in this forum to whom one can attribute professional and financial success. I have not seen negative comments directed against such women simply for having this financial power. I think to reduce avoidance of financial play to simply power overlooks matters of respect, sensibility, and security which might be important to a sub. Cheers, Sea

Eivarden -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 4:51:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming You would trust a dom with your life, but not your money? [8\|] That's fucked up. That's a statistically safe gamble. There are very, very few recreational killers in active circulation; limit it to just the females, and the global population probably isn't enough to fill a high school gymnasium. On the other hand, there aren't enough prisons in the world to hold all the petty crooks, confidence scammers, and opportunistic thieves. The only reason I would leave money separated by all of this, isn't because I'd trust them with my life, but not my cash. But because not every relationship works out. If I was in a 24/7 relationship, and I had relocated to live with her, I'm going to have problems when we break up. I'll need a certain amount of money left on the side, to be able to get back into a stable situation. I'm the type of person who doesn't touch my money. If I have "XXXX" amount for this, it only strikes me as odd, when someone wants access to it. Either they are trying to prevent me from leaving, in the case things were not going to work out, or they are trying to screw me over after we separate. My only *hard limit*, is anything that endangers my life. And that would fall under that category for me. Anyone can have an interest to kill someone, w/o a care about that victims cash, and visa-versa. Being cautious of one, and not the other seems careless IMO.

cloudboy -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 4:54:34 AM)
From 55 yds away, that reads like Amayos. He's all about that extreme, romantic, slavery stuff --- in his writing.

ShaktiSama -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 5:32:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea Sure, threads arise where one gender is venting against the other. Do you acknowledge that some threads arise more frequently than others? And that there is a certain sameness to the things which are said, the attitudes expressed, and the level to which tempers rise? quote: That there are women (including yourself :) ) who can put claim to power by their professional achievements, social achievements, financial success and various other forms of power demonstrates that other forms of power are available to women. "Available" is a strong word for the level of access that women have to any power other than sex in this society. If I want sexual power, I can get it by spending five minutes and less than 100 bucks at Victoria's Secret--my culture's attitudes toward women and their bodies will handle the rest. If I want any other kind of power, I have to spend years of hard work and leverage thousands upon thousands of dollars to get an education, and then claw my way through workplaces which are often male dominant and female-hostile. As a woman who has gone through this process and continues to succeed in a field other than peddling my ass, I can't honestly say that power is "available" to women which can only be ripped from the cold dead fingers of their conquered enemies. quote: I can make similar statements about various friends and women with whom I have or have had friendly or romantic relationships. Anecdotal evidence about your personal relatives and social acquaintances does not constitute valid social science, I'm afraid. Yes, I would love to paint a rosy picture of the world as a whole by including only the data that is supplied by women I respect and would choose to use as role models for my own life, or the lives of my daughters. But unfortunately, when you are talking about the world at large, you have to encompass everyone and deal with the trends and factors that confront the majority of women. 78 cents on the dollar, my friend. It is an ugly fact and it will not go away no matter how well your sister does in her office. And quite honestly, the fact that she succeeds in her profession may actually BE in part due to her sexuality/sexual power--if she really is, as you say, a beautiful woman, then she probably has enjoyed advantages throughout her teen and adult life in education, social and professional circles because of it. This is a statistical reality about attractive women which is also true of men over a certain height. quote: I have not seen negative comments directed against such women simply for having this financial power. You're not reading my posts. I've never said that women were subjected to negative comments because they behave and dominate like stereotypical males. Akasha will never be bashed for being the provider and "husband" in her relationship--as I said, this is the stereotypically "correct" way to dominate another human being because only the traditional needs of dominant heterosexual males are socially acceptable. Those needs are sexual, emotional and domestic, whereas the stereotypical needs of a woman are sexual, emotional and economic. "Man and male role in D/S= good", "woman and female role in D/S = bad". You are just reaffirming and repeating the same shite I've been talking about with this.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 6:14:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama "Available" is a strong word for the level of access that women have to any power other than sex in this society. If I want sexual power, I can get it by spending five minutes and less than 100 bucks at Victoria's Secret--my culture's attitudes toward women and their bodies will handle the rest. If I want any other kind of power, I have to spend years of hard work and leverage thousands upon thousands of dollars to get an education That's too terrible to even think about! [:(] My apologies, I didn't realize just how oppressed you were. Well, I'm off to sell some of the platinum ingots that fall out of my penis every morning to provide for my life of leisure. TTFN.

Venatrix -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 6:28:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste Well, I'm off to sell some of the platinum ingots that fall out of my penis every morning to provide for my life of leisure. TTFN. I'm not surprised that's where you keep your ingots. It seems to be the place where a lot of men keep things.

Starbuck09 -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 6:30:32 AM)
I do not know how often this type of thread arises Shakti however I do know that this one was instigated by a woman looking to provoke a response. Your culture's attitude to women and their sexuality is little different in nature to how men are portrayed. If you want sexual power as a man or woman then look good that is a lesson of your culture that transcends gender. If men want any other power the same as women they need to spend years of hard work and thousands on education it is no different. As i've said before economic needs do not need to be met by tribute. Financial domination is no bad thing if both parties choose to engage in it. There is a difference between having an aversion to have tribute demanded of oneself to spend time with someone and fear of giving women power. I would be equally dismayed in a homosexual relationship if a man thought it appropriate that to qualify for his time I had to clean his house.

cloudboy -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 7:26:44 AM)
Replying to you in general. (1) No one likes the idea of anyone sitting alone, feeling stupid and cheapened after being used for either sex or money. (Kinky twists aside.) (2) Then there's the Wright Brothers effect: if it flies, it flies. IF it flies, detractors can eat sh*t. . If it doesn't fly, then one's "theories and ideas" are out the window -- yelling at the wind won't help. (3) "Ulterior motives;" you efficiently described the elephant in the room. All three of these factors are huge drivers for threads. Traditional bashing usually peters out after about three pages.

SaharahEve -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:03:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy He's all about that extreme, romantic, slavery stuff --- in his writing. "Extreme". "Romantic". You can choose to label it in whatever way makes you feel good, but the fact remains he's been living in a happy and fulfilling D/s relationship for quite some time, unlike a few others around here who have not a ghost of a notion of what it's like to find and live a fulfilling D/s structure, save perhaps a few books and Internet sites. They complain and preach and judge, making a lot of noise to look impressive but the the bottom line is their knowledge is superficial and their concepts and analogies are rather empty.

LaTigresse -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:07:26 AM)
What I find interesting, and what led me to participating in this thread, even though I've never been focused on the financial aspects of dominance for myself (not saying I wouldn't, just haven't) are a few of the following thoughts. Much as Shakti pointed out, it is a power thing. Since the beginning of currency, it has been a tool/measure of power. If it was simply a matter of how the OP was worded, as some have used as an excuse for their participation in this thread, the thread topic would be a rarity, the same posters would not have a history of bashing the activity, and the thread very likely would not have run to 30plus pages. So I really have to call bullshit on that. For a person to identify as a slave, yet want to retain power is, TO ME, completely hypocritical. In my eyes, that makes them a bottom, not terribly submissive and most certainly NOT a slave. It is laughable that a person will give their physical well being, the very risk of life and limb, over to another, but wish to retain control of money, and still say they are submitting their all, as a slave. I have never had an M/s dynamic. I have been involved with submissive women in a D/s dynamic and to me there is a difference. If and when, the time comes that I decide I want a M/s dynamic with someone, you can bet your sweet ass, I am going to be in total control. Not just during the slap tickle fun. And, like most women, I won't expect, all, immediately. Just like any risky interaction between consenting adults, there is a learning curve. A gaining of trust. A knowing, that the M type is trustworthy and has the best interests of the s type at heart. Seems pretty simple to me. Something that the hetro female s types seem to get much easier. I know that a huge number of male M types control all the finances and it is just taken as "normal or natural". And before anyone starts, don't even try to twist that around into, "Yeah but that is an established.....whatever!" It is still an exchange of money and power so bleh. What I see, when I read these types of threads is men that want conditional sexual submission, mad that they are not getting what they want. They are angry that the women are not being fooled by the attempted power struggle and are hitting them exactly where it will hurt the most. The power of the almighty dollar. I am sorry, but if liking the power of money, liking what money can get me is wrong, then I am an evil bitch. If I were to decide that using a slave's hard earned income as part of our power play and it upset a few, so be it. I can live with that. IF, a submissive, slave, or just a really generous soul, decides to spend money on me, delight me, thrill me enough that I want to tell others about it, makes me a terrible human being, I can live with that too! Because quite frankly, ANYONE that is going to make that small facet of the whole that is me, such a huge focus to attack, they are not worth my, give a damn. There is a lot more to me, and every other woman that has posted on this forum. If some narrow minded s type is going to be so hyper focused on that one aspect, they are not worthy of serving me. Because there is an awful lot about me, and the other ladies here, that is warm, loving, generous, giving, sadistic, controlling and all the other wonderful things that combine into the creation of a really awesome dominant woman. Regardless of whether money is part of one or more of our, personal power exchanges. If an s type male does not like submitting the power of his almighty dollars to a D or M type woman, then he damned well better find a woman that either has so much she doesn't care about his, doesn't see the really delightful fun I can imagine in using his money to have control/power over him, understands that it is a sensitive issue for him. Or, realize that they are NOT submissive/slave material and look for tops to satisfy their desire for bottoming. Otherwise, quite the whining and suck it up.

Andalusite -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:26:13 AM)
Umm, Shakti, I really enjoy most of your posts, but I really disagree with you here. I think it's perfectly reasonable for men not to want to give major tribute to a woman they don't know well yet, or to be nervous about giving their girlfriend/Domme control of the finances, especially when the relationship is new. Some guys are cheapskates, but not wanting to give tribute or financial control doesn't mean they hate women or are afraid of their power. Most guys don't want the "kind of wife (or girlfriend, or Domme) you have to pay for." If a man was in the habit of paying for sessions, or tribute before getting involved with someone, I would consider it a strike against him, if I were looking. I think that paying for BDSM tends to lead to bad habits and poor mindsets from submissive and bottom men, even if they didn't actually try to pay me. When my submissive and I were together, he did add my name to his bank account, after we'd been together for a couple of years. When we lived together, we both pitched in for household expenses. That isn't "tribute," though, and I doubt most of the men here would have a problem with that - heck, lots of vanilla relationships involve some mingling of finances. I didn't just take money from his account and transfer it to mine, or use it to buy anything without checking with him first. Dreamerdreaming, I have to agree with OneMoreWaste and sea here - there are far more women who are thieves and con artists than murderers.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:32:35 AM)
Andalusite, I don't think Shakti is referring to the insta-tribute doms here, but the men who say OH of course I will devote my all to you, give you my blood but OMG not my paycheck! The wallet is that last bastion of power and no way are they giving it up, even if that evil moneygrubbing dom is using it to help pay their rent and buy groceries! No one here is advocating ANYONE handing over control of their bank account from day one. Regardless of how anyone feels about Texasmaam's post, what she was describing was a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP and gifts freely given.

LaTigresse -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:36:48 AM)
And if the woman that requires a man submit his paycheck to her is a thief, what is a man that requires a woman submit her mouth, ass and other body parts, for his sexual gratification?[:D]

mnottertail -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:38:13 AM)
LT, That man would be a ME!!!!!!!!! I thought we covered this earlier. Ron

CarrieO -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 8:45:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus No one here is advocating ANYONE handing over control of their bank account from day one. Regardless of how anyone feels about Texasmaam's post, what she was describing was a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP and gifts freely given. LadyHibiscus, thank you for posting exactly what I read from the start. I'm surprised by the responses and assumptions made by many of the people on this thread. I read and re-read the original post and the one thing that continually catches my eye is this... quote: I could never thank you, manthing, for everything you do for Me, every day, in every way, to let Me know how much you care, how much you love Me, how much you appreciate and cherish our relationship. I love you. Thank you, from the bottom of My heart. I read this more to be an example to two people in a relationship and the man's desire to please his woman and her pleasure at his unselfish behavior. Plain and simple. I think it was just the use of the word tribute that sent the wheels of anger and heated debate/name-calling into motion.

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