RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (Full Version)

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ShaktiSama -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 10:59:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued You and I often agree, but here we don't. I do agree that there is (unfortunately) still inequality between the sexes in the workplace (and "powerplace"). This said, if you think men don't "spend years of hard work and leverage thousands upon thousands of dollars to get an education, and then claw their way through", you're mistaken. I never said that men don't pay for education or work for a living. However, when one gender receives 78 cents on the dollar in average pay versus the other, who exactly do you think must be getting the better jobs, more promotions and raises, repaying those student loans faster, enjoying better credit and lower rates of poverty, etc? What does this tell us about the value that people are receiving for their education, versus the price they're paying? Gee, maybe I'm not "mistaken" after all. Again, I'm sorry that you personally feel injured by a lack of job availability in female-dominated professions. But anecdotal personal evidence is not useful in social science discussions. The fact that men are less likely to be hired in some jobs is unfair and sexist, to be sure. It doesn't make men as a whole economically equal or inferior to women as a whole. People who repeatedly claim in this thread that "times are a changin'" and "everything is all better now" are believing and repeating a socioeconomic LIE. Real sociologists and economists who have studied the issue say the shortfall between male and female income is still in the range of 25-30 cents on the dollar and they predict that this will remain a reality until 2030 or longer.

OttersSwim -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 10:59:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arillis Let us not fool ourselves with the belief that everyone comes to these boards is desperately seeking someone to physically, mentally or emotionally abuse them or separate them from their dollars. Or even with the intent of winning friends and influencing others. If that is your actual opinion of what goes on here, then you haven't been paying attention. It seems like you are just here to troll with no useful input, and just vitriol and hate to spew. That is how you are coming across to everyone. If that is not your intent, then maybe it is time to reevaluate why you are here and what you want out of it and change your approach. If you are just here to troll, then we will be happy to point the mods at you and your posts and let them stomp you out of existence on our fine little forum. Cheers! [:)]

keary -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 11:12:53 AM)
i give Ma'am all the money i make and She gives me a reason to keep coming home. i don't worry or ask what She does with it becuz i trust Her. i spose that means i am stupid to sum. But when i was in a car accident, She made sure i got a new car from them and a lot of money for my future. i wuld of given it all to Her but She made me invest it insted even though She needs it. Guys get too stupid bout there money.

SaharahEve -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 12:16:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 The post you quoted from La Tigresse was aimed at me Sahara Eve why do you think I am any of the things in it? Star, I liked her quote and wanted to express same. Truthfully, I had not looked to see who she was replying to. For the record, I understand your position for the most part and I am in agreement with much of it. From what information you have shared with us, I gather you seem to support financial domination either between pros/clients and/or involved M/s/D/s relationships if that is what works for them. You seem to take exception, however, to any proclamation which says giving away your money to your Keeper or giving away tributes to a Pro makes you a better, more worthy, more involved submissive and that what one gives should not be seen as a measure of love. Based on my understanding of your views here, I disagree. When a person gives a part of themselves to you (time, money, labor) to whatever degree, they are telling you that knowing you makes them feel valuable and happy and they want to give back to you. Love can be a selfish kind of thing. We love people for how they make us feel. We love them because we see in their eyes a reflection of ourselves. We see we are recognized, understood and accepted by them. And as such, we want to give up a part of ourselves to demonstrate our love and appreciation for them. In regard to submissives or slaves giving or sacrificing out of a "sense of duty", I am sure you can find many who do so ungrudgingly, or else they would not be there. [:)]

SaharahEve -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 12:27:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued SaharahEve, quote: Some thoughts on the topic by some kept dog I happen to know well. :-) Poetry of desire and longing is trivial and virtually meaningless in a virtual word. To manifest your interest with a gift or monetary sum is a far more difficult test. But tribute means nothing when it's easy; the amount should be something that hurts -- something that is a sacrifice. Many contend that financial domination is impersonal, evil and absurd, but there are few things so personal and real as money, I believe. When it is given in the right spirit, when it is offered out of pure love and worship and not with the intent to prostitute, it is a beautiful thing. Exclude this part: "tribute means nothing when it's easy; the amount should be something that hurts -- something that is a sacrifice" and I largely agree. The reason for the exclusion is one hopes partners organize their lives in a way that each doesn't suffer extreme consequences while providing for the other's happiness. Certainly, sometimes emergencies happen and partners do what they must to support each other. Needlessly depleting one's own resources and ability to function is detrimental to all partners involved. I believe partners like being shown affection, but usually not with a mechanism that damages the other partner(s). Elan. I understand you have your own personal views on what you consider healthy or unhealthy for other people's lives, including your own and I do sense altruistic motives behind your views. But I hope you are willing to recognize the world is vast and personal realities are even vaster. What does not work for some, may work well for others. Depleting one's own resources for the benefit of the other, though unimaginable for you, can be the ultimate surrender for someone else. To think everyone's inner motives, drives and needs, etc., are the same would be restrictive thinking, I'm afraid. We have to accept that other people find fulfillment in ways different than ourselves. Everyday people outside M/s D/S structures sacrifice for another and become damaged in the process. But there's always a personal story behind the sacrifice. For example, letting your drug addicted child remain in your havoc ridden home rather than removing her or him out onto the streets. The love for that child is so deep, they are willing to suffer for the child because in the end, something within that sacrifice makes them feel better had they not sacrificed at all.

SaharahEve -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 12:28:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I always give him a hard time (nothing serious) on the boards, and I mean right from the start. I think we have a good rapport, but his writing is highly recognizable. No worries.... hope you guys are extremely well.... No worries felt, cloud. I know you two have been talking on the other side for years, and often bust each other's chops in the forum division. I should have used a wink or a smile emotion to rely the general tone of my thoughts...

OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 5:20:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse For a person to identify as a slave, yet want to retain power is, TO ME, completely hypocritical. In my eyes, that makes them a bottom, not terribly submissive and most certainly NOT a slave. It is laughable that a person will give their physical well being, the very risk of life and limb, over to another, but wish to retain control of money, and still say they are submitting their all, as a slave. So is this just a random rant that needed a home? I skimmed through the thread and didn't see any men who identified as slaves in their profiles. [&:]

OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 5:26:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste Well, I'm off to sell some of the platinum ingots that fall out of my penis every morning to provide for my life of leisure. TTFN. I'm not surprised that's where you keep your ingots. It seems to be the place where a lot of men keep things. The weight gives it extra impact at the bottom of the stroke [;)] Everything we do, we do for the ladies!

LadyPact -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 5:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste So is this just a random rant that needed a home? I skimmed through the thread and didn't see any men who identified as slaves in their profiles. [&:] I believe you are incorrect. Both SmartStrongSub and XYis Inferior both identify as slaves. I haven't checked, but I believe that Aidan (correct Me if I'm wrong, Shatki) identifies as a slave as well.

SmartStrongSub -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 6:41:52 PM)
Respectfully, I agree with SaharahEve, a page of history (experince) is worth more than a volumne of logic (abstract reasoning) when it comes to understanding the joys of slavery and its demands. quote: ORIGINAL: SaharahEve quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy He's all about that extreme, romantic, slavery stuff --- in his writing. "Extreme". "Romantic". You can choose to label it in whatever way makes you feel good, but the fact remains he's been living in a happy and fulfilling D/s relationship for quite some time, unlike a few others around here who have not a ghost of a notion of what it's like to find and live a fulfilling D/s structure, save perhaps a few books and Internet sites. They complain and preach and judge, making a lot of noise to look impressive but the the bottom line is their knowledge is superficial and their concepts and analogies are rather empty.

SmartStrongSub -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 6:48:00 PM)
Respectfully, yes, currency has three acknowledged applications in society: a store of value, a standard of value, and a medium of exchange, and all of these equate to power in our society. The surrender of money is a surrender of power. quote: ORIGINAL: SaharahEve quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse What I find interesting, and what led me to participating in this thread, even though I've never been focused on the financial aspects of dominance for myself (not saying I wouldn't, just haven't) are a few of the following thoughts. Much as Shakti pointed out, it is a power thing. Since the beginning of currency, it has been a tool/measure of power. If it was simply a matter of how the OP was worded, as some have used as an excuse for their participation in this thread, the thread topic would be a rarity, the same posters would not have a history of bashing the activity, and the thread very likely would not have run to 30plus pages. So I really have to call bullshit on that. For a person to identify as a slave, yet want to retain power is, TO ME, completely hypocritical. In my eyes, that makes them a bottom, not terribly submissive and most certainly NOT a slave. It is laughable that a person will give their physical well being, the very risk of life and limb, over to another, but wish to retain control of money, and still say they are submitting their all, as a slave. I have never had an M/s dynamic. I have been involved with submissive women in a D/s dynamic and to me there is a difference. If and when, the time comes that I decide I want a M/s dynamic with someone, you can bet your sweet ass, I am going to be in total control. Not just during the slap tickle fun. And, like most women, I won't expect, all, immediately. Just like any risky interaction between consenting adults, there is a learning curve. A gaining of trust. A knowing, that the M type is trustworthy and has the best interests of the s type at heart. Seems pretty simple to me. Something that the hetro female s types seem to get much easier. I know that a huge number of male M types control all the finances and it is just taken as "normal or natural". And before anyone starts, don't even try to twist that around into, "Yeah but that is an established.....whatever!" It is still an exchange of money and power so bleh. What I see, when I read these types of threads is men that want conditional sexual submission, mad that they are not getting what they want. They are angry that the women are not being fooled by the attempted power struggle and are hitting them exactly where it will hurt the most. The power of the almighty dollar. I am sorry, but if liking the power of money, liking what money can get me is wrong, then I am an evil bitch. If I were to decide that using a slave's hard earned income as part of our power play and it upset a few, so be it. I can live with that. IF, a submissive, slave, or just a really generous soul, decides to spend money on me, delight me, thrill me enough that I want to tell others about it, makes me a terrible human being, I can live with that too! Because quite frankly, ANYONE that is going to make that small facet of the whole that is me, such a huge focus to attack, they are not worth my, give a damn. There is a lot more to me, and every other woman that has posted on this forum. If some narrow minded s type is going to be so hyper focused on that one aspect, they are not worthy of serving me. Because there is an awful lot about me, and the other ladies here, that is warm, loving, generous, giving, sadistic, controlling and all the other wonderful things that combine into the creation of a really awesome dominant woman. Regardless of whether money is part of one or more of our, personal power exchanges. If an s type male does not like submitting the power of his almighty dollars to a D or M type woman, then he damned well better find a woman that either has so much she doesn't care about his, doesn't see the really delightful fun I can imagine in using his money to have control/power over him, understands that it is a sensitive issue for him. Or, realize that they are NOT submissive/slave material and look for tops to satisfy their desire for bottoming. Otherwise, quite the whining and suck it up. I wholeheartedly agree.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 7:07:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste So is this just a random rant that needed a home? I skimmed through the thread and didn't see any men who identified as slaves in their profiles. [&:] I believe you are incorrect. Both SmartStrongSub and XYis Inferior both identify as slaves. I haven't checked, but I believe that Aidan (correct Me if I'm wrong, Shatki) identifies as a slave as well. But none of the three seem to be speaking against tribute/financial submission, from what I saw? Which would make my observation relevant, if not technically correct [:)] BTW, props to the new guy... SSS not only knows exactly the right things to say, but does it all eloquent-like. Nice work!

Venatrix -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 7:12:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste BTW, props to the new guy... SSS not only knows exactly the right things to say, but does it all eloquent-like. Nice work! Indeed. And he's attractive, too. Except for the unfortunate white blob on his face.

GotSteel -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/26/2009 9:49:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: keary Guys get too stupid bout there money. Wow, that's a bit much don't you think? I don't have an issue with someones significant other handling the finances, with the existence of prodommes or even with prostitutes for that matter. However, I do have some sympathy for those who are on this site trying to find a relationship and having trouble sorting through all the people just interested in getting their money.

keary -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 7:23:04 AM)
No. If it wasnt true then the government wuldnt have had to get involved in childsupport stuff in such a big way.

Andalusite -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 7:53:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Andalusite, I don't think Shakti is referring to the insta-tribute doms here, but the men who say OH of course I will devote my all to you, give you my blood but OMG not my paycheck! The wallet is that last bastion of power and no way are they giving it up, even if that evil moneygrubbing dom is using it to help pay their rent and buy groceries! No one here is advocating ANYONE handing over control of their bank account from day one. Regardless of how anyone feels about Texasmaam's post, what she was describing was a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP and gifts freely given. Oh, I have no problem with Texasmaam's relationship, or her bragging on manthing, though I can understand some of the male submissives feeling a bit insulted by the "limp dick" part. I was mostly responding to Shakti saying that men who don't want to give money to women "hate and fear" them, and saying that criticising women for asking for instant tribute is the same mindset as killing prostitutes. Someone else said earlier in the thread that if a woman asks for money right away, submissives need to comply, or they won't find anybody to be with. Most men don't want a woman who they have to pay outright, though they may have no problem with sharing finances/etc. If anything, giving her money on a regular basis is likely to be viewed as "supporting her," and put her in a submissive power position. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse And if the woman that requires a man submit his paycheck to her is a thief, what is a man that requires a woman submit her mouth, ass and other body parts, for his sexual gratification?[:D] I don't consider that to be stealing at all, just that women are more likely to commit financial crimes than violent ones, so it seems reasonable that men are more worried about giving control of money than they are of being killed or seriously injured. quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix I think it stems from a sense of frustration on the part of a lot of submissive men who either can't or don't want to pay. They want all women to be available, whenever they want them to be available, preferably without any investment of time or money, but barring that, definitely not their money. Hmm, back when I was looking, I ran into one "if you don't do things my way, you don't belong on a kinky site" guy, but most don't seem to be too frustrated about not being able to find playpartners at a moment's notice. A lot of them are frustrated and lonely that they can't find a girlfriend/Domme, but I haven't seen any of them suggest that she should play with them "on demand," or who expect to find a casual playpartner in the meantime. Lots of guys have approaches that ensure that no woman would want to be with them, or don't bother to put any effort in. Pinnipedster came the closest, when he said that a particular Domme in his area loves bondage, but doesn't want to play with him, since he doesn't meet her parameters for age, and he's tried anyway to convince her otherwise. Mostly guys seem to just want to find a girlfriend who wants all of the things they want, without even being told, who can evoke just the right mindset from them. They aren't willing to "settle" for someone who might be very compatible in terms of kink and vanilla aspects, but who doesn't meet their expectations of mindset. OneWaste, I identify as a switch in general, but am currently a slave. In general, I think that finances can legitimately come into play in a power exchange relationship. For example, if my Master and I lived together, we might well mingle finances (heck, lots of vanilla couples do as well). If I were making unhealthy financial decisions, and he chose to exert control in that area to prevent it (ie. gambling, spending money I couldn't afford on shopping, etc.), I think that would be perfectly reasonable. It isn't a hard limit, but outright paying him for his time would be. I enjoy getting him little presents that I think he'll like and find useful, and sometimes pay when we're on dates (he does more often, though).

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 9:07:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Do you acknowledge that some threads arise more frequently than others? And that there is a certain sameness to the things which are said, the attitudes expressed, and the level to which tempers rise? I acknowledge that objections about money related matters reoccur regularly. Complaints by dommes about being sexually used by subs also reoccur regularly. I always say rants serve a purpose in that they allow one to vent, and they bring attention to a matter that is a source of contention. I think an objection to tribute for reasons of respect, sensibility, and security is fair and reasonable independent of the sex of a person. quote: "Available" is a strong word for the level of access that women have to any power other than sex in this society. If I want sexual power, I can get it by spending five minutes and less than 100 bucks at Victoria's Secret--my culture's attitudes toward women and their bodies will handle the rest. If I want any other kind of power, I have to spend years of hard work and leverage thousands upon thousands of dollars to get an education An imbalance in sexual power and physical strength between a given man and a given woman affect employment opportunities available to each. However, these opportunities typically do not bring a lot of social power. Social power is more commonly associated with professions that require years of hard work, and thousands of dollars to get an education, which must be done by each men and women. quote: , and then claw my way through workplaces which are often male dominant and female-hostile. My work experiences include recruiting and participating in the process to determine promotions. While my experiences did not show a disadvantage to women for recruiting and promotions, I allow that there must be challenges they must overcome. I allow that there must be bigoted men who are unfair to women but and believe times have been and continue to move in a better direction. It is easier for women in my generation than it was for women in my parents' generation, and it will be easier for women in the next generation. I will add that even if promotion and raises are done fairly, outdated societal roles make the matter more difficult for women. If a system is based on performance, and performance is related to how much time beyond normal working hours an employee can devote, a woman who has greater obligations at home than a man faces a disadvantage. I see this aspect of societal roles to also be in flux. quote: which can only be ripped from the cold dead fingers of their conquered enemies. I do not see such an adversarial relationship between women and men. quote: Anecdotal evidence about your personal relatives and social acquaintances does not constitute valid social science, I'm afraid. I present that anecdotal information as examples that show that sexual power is not the only form of power available to women. quote: It is an ugly fact and it will not go away no matter how well your sister does in her office. And quite honestly, the fact that she succeeds in her profession may actually BE in part due to her sexuality/sexual power--if she really is, as you say, a beautiful woman, then she probably has enjoyed advantages throughout her teen and adult life in education, social and professional circles because of it. My sister began by volunteering for a non-profit. She excelled in her role and moved up paid roles in the office based on her performance to manage the office, and eventually was sought by another organization where she similarly moved upward. She has worked in an office that has had a woman at the top, and one with a man at the top. The constant is her work ethic and her social skills which have allowed her to succeed in her role. One other contant that has tremendously helped my younger sister in her success is that she often seeks advice from me ;-) quote: You're not reading my posts. I've never said that women were subjected to negative comments because they behave and dominate like stereotypical males. Akasha will never be bashed for being the provider and "husband" in her relationship--as I said, this is the stereotypically "correct" way to dominate another human being because only the traditional needs of dominant heterosexual males are socially acceptable. Those needs are sexual, emotional and domestic, whereas the stereotypical needs of a woman are sexual, emotional and economic. "Man and male role in D/S= good", "woman and female role in D/S = bad". You are just reaffirming and repeating the same shite I've been talking about with this. I interpretted your post to say that men resent or will not allow women to have any form of power other than sexual power. The point I convey through citing Akasha as an example is that there is no resentment expressed towards her for having economic power she herself acquired. Thus, to the extent you suggest men oppose the concept of tribute because they do not wish to see a woman have power other than sexual power, this counterexample shows differently. I don't think Akasha's behavior is necessarily male behavior. To achieve economic independence is not behavior that is exclusive to men. Similarly, I think each men and women have sexual, emotional, economic, and domestic needs. When submissive men post expressing an interest to have their economic needs met by dommes, there are often comments from dommes saying that these men should meet their own economic needs. I apply this idea to everyone regardless of their sex. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 9:22:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Much as Shakti pointed out, it is a power thing. Since the beginning of currency, it has been a tool/measure of power. It is more than just power. It is fair for one to find as disrespectful a demand for material items in order to begin or maintain an interpersonal relationship. It is fair for one to worry about being sensible and not be had or used. These two points apply to relationships in an early phase. For long term relationships, where the matter of disrespect or being used has been removed, it is fair of one to consider that the relationship may end and on unhappy terms. Money and greed affect people in ugly ways. There are many cases of people who professed eternal love for each other and then later turned on each other for sake of money when came time to part ways. My ideal BDSM relationship is a romantic companionship and I expect that such matters would be handled as they are in romantic companionships. If I were to read a post by someone entering an M/s dynamic and seeking advice about what to do about a demand to transfer all assets to his or her master, I would encourage this person to consider what would happen if the relationship does not last. Would you support some form of agreement that says that the dominant has control over all finances but if the relationship ends (at which time the dominant or submissive dynamic has disolved and now it is just two people who are parting ways in whichever degree of amity or hostility), the submissive has final say on how to determine all financial matters? If not, why not? quote: For a person to identify as a slave, yet want to retain power is, TO ME, completely hypocritical. In my eyes, that makes them a bottom, not terribly submissive and most certainly NOT a slave. The context for tribute, especially when it brings objections, is more often unestablished relationships, not for sake of what is mentioned in the OP but for sake of reality that exists. Not everyone here identifies as a slave. In established relationships, even M/s relationships, it is up to the pair to define the relationship parameters--there is no one way to do it and a slave who wishes to not completely cede financial power is not a bottom. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 9:51:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea That is a fair question to ask. I have no issues if Manthing gives gifts to TexasMaam, or if she requires him to give tribute and he also wishes to do so. I think one reason this thread has taken such a course is because her post positions her dynamic as the true way, and denigrates those who do not do the same. I honestly didn't read it that way. I saw it as an expression of love and happiness between two people who are both unselfishly giving of themselves and what they have, and who are both very happy with their relationship. Indeed the post describes a relationship of love and happiness. There is also this portion: quote: TexasMaam:....and the rest of you whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks can sit up and take notice of how a 'real man' pays tribute to his Domme! That's how it's done. It is this portion to which I refer in the text you quote. quote: LadyNTrainer: I'm afraid it is a very realistic observation that there are a lot of whiny, petulant, demanding men who want a woman to dress a certain way, top them a certain way, pay for all their own clothes and dungeon gear, be available to strangers instantly whenever they are wanted for kinky sex, and not demand anything back including common courtesy or friendship. Why is this such a prevalent meme? Indeed this behavior is inappropriate and deserves rants. To mirror your words (in italics), it is also a very realistic observation that there are a lot of women who seem focused on material gain (please go browse profiles if you wish to see) and financially using men. Why is this such a prevalent meme? When women rant against the inappropriate behavior of such men, there is no defense of such men. When men rant against the inappropriate behavior of such women, this behavior is justified and instead the men are criticized for having the objection they have, with which I have difficulty because it feels like a double standard. I think part of the disagreement in this discussion is occurring because different people interpret the concept of tribute differently. Thus, when person A objects to (or speaks in favor of) tribute, person B hears it as an objection against (or support for) tribute as person B defines it. For sake of clarity, I define tribute as a material requirements that are critically necessary to begin or sustain an interpersonal relationship. I object to the idea when it is done without regard to how the other feels about it, conveys an unerotic disregard for submissive men in general, or when it is directed at submissive men at large (all submissive men should pay tribute). I do not object to it when it is done within a relationship where two people seek to do it and do not impose their view on others. quote: "This is what I want, this is what I demand for myself, if you do not give to me, I will not give to you." Why is this? When what a person wants and demands is selfish or disrespectful, the person at whom the demand is directed objects, be this selfish and disrespectful demand without regard to the other for sex or for money. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (8/27/2009 9:56:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: keary No. If it wasnt true then the government wuldnt have had to get involved in childsupport stuff in such a big way. The child support laws apply to men and women. What the government is addressing via these laws is not male behavior but human behavior. Cheers, Sea

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