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RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:07:19 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		So this topic sparked a discussion between me and Mr Man,.

Me: What do you see me as a slave or a submissive?
Him: Neither, you are my little Maenad.

Upon research and discussion (inquiring minds) I thought to myself I want to be that to him more than any other pre-established term because it is so him.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:11:44 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

So this topic sparked a discussion between me and Mr Man,.

Me: What do you see me as a slave or a submissive?
Him: Neither, you are my little Maenad.

Upon research and discussion (inquiring minds) I thought to myself I want to be that to him more than any other pre-established term because it is so him.

How beautiful.
I'll drink to that! Cheers. Salutations.


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:13:50 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Can you live just fine on your own, but do you thrive -- are you at your best -- when completely controlled by him?

If the word weren't "slave" -- which has a history full of human misery -- but something else, like "ubersub," would you be happy being called that, and would you think it fit?



Your first set of questions, I will reserve comment. *blush*

As for these, yes to the first. The other, I don't think it's the attachment to historical context. I also don't really have a desire to be "uber" anything, though that term comes up about me from time to time. I never saw sub or slave as one superior to the other. I saw them as just a language of the heart, mind, and soul. The only problem is, I have no idea which language I speak.

lovingpet

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:15:33 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Aww Thanks Prins

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:17:11 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Loving pet. You are right to be worried in my opinion.
As a sub you keep the right to say no and still retain the relationship.
As a slave you may not.
Some people prefer slaves.
I'll admit to being one of them.
It's about how much you trust your partner to make the right decisions for you.
Is he capable of doing that consistently?

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:19:08 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

You want my best guess. Your master, like me, likes the term "slave" and he likes you. So whatever it is that you are is a slave in his eyes. I suspect that's kind of how it always goes *laughs*. What sets off your alarm bells with the word?


Yes, I know part of it is he just love to watch me squirm and blush at being called his slave. In the end, I will be whatever he calls me. I think part of it is some of his background, and I have addressed this before in some other threads. He spent time as a Gorean master for some time. A lot of the thought processes, as much as I have been able to study so far, have remained with him. I don't know if that clarifies anything for anyone out there, but it is not at all a judgement on my part about Gorean philosophy or practice, just a lot of what I hope is understandable uncertainty as to how I am viewed and the expectations he will have. I warned people this was a doozie!

lovingpet

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:20:15 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Can you live just fine on your own, but do you thrive -- are you at your best -- when completely controlled by him?

If the word weren't "slave" -- which has a history full of human misery -- but something else, like "ubersub," would you be happy being called that, and would you think it fit?


Being a slave (in my exeprience) has little to do with being controlled.
Dominants who attempt to control me get short shrift.
Being a slave is ultimately about my STATUS in relationship to my Master. As slave I do not need to be controlled. I know by instinct in relationship.




Could you expand upon your idea of identity by status please?

lovingpet

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:20:17 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1
As a sub you keep the right to say no and still retain the relationship.
As a slave you may not.



So to you, as a sub you always retain the right but as a slave you may or may not yet you prefer slaves when by definition you are saying that in some cases they are the same...my head hurts

< Message edited by LillyoftheVally -- 8/15/2009 3:27:03 PM >

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:20:50 PM   
KCalli


Posts: 81
Joined: 8/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Can you live just fine on your own, but do you thrive -- are you at your best -- when completely controlled by him?

If the word weren't "slave" -- which has a history full of human misery -- but something else, like "ubersub," would you be happy being called that, and would you think it fit?


Being a slave (in my exeprience) has little to do with being controlled.
Dominants who attempt to control me get short shrift.
Being a slave is ultimately about my STATUS in relationship to my Master. As slave I do not need to be controlled. I know by instinct in relationship.




I agree with the above. I would also add, that in my mind the difference between sub and slave are these: A) slave may be a natural relationship progression from being sub. which may take years to develop, if it even does. B) in my mind, if I were to own a slave, I would be absolutely responsible for that person. Mind, body, health, etc. etc.etc. whereas a sub still has some autonomy on more personal levels (such as working outside, and getting out and about.) Many people tend to view slaves as chattal, which is their view. Mine is slightly different. I chose this person for a particular reason. To me he/she would be valued property to be cared for properly to be able to service my needs for a long time to come. Sort of (here is the mechanic coming out in me) like I am not going to spend a gazillion dollars molding and tweaking my 1934 Plymouth Business coupe into the hot rod I want just to drive it off a cliff. Doesn't make sense to me. A car is still a car, and a slave a slave, but it doesn't mean that I can't take care of my treasure. That is just my humble opinion.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:24:19 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
     By any other name would smell as sweet;

*hugs lovingpet*
i have found that living life and making the definitions together is all that counts and much more rewarding than any title, box, or "name". i'd much rather be "it" than call "it" anything.

He sees you as his slave. If i were you, i  would want to know what things over time have led him to that opinion, and what the distintion means to him. Perhaps the gradual change for him has been much more noticeable than for you. Often, when you're sinking and freefalling, you can't take time to notice that there are actually steps involved. He might have seen steps where you felt like you were floating above the ground. Congrats...from what i've seen of him briefly, he was quiet and thoughtful, and not in it for show. Best wishes to you both for every happiness.


Awwwww!!!! I appreciate this sweetie! We were so in the background of things, I didn't know if any of you would really remember us all that much!

I think he is seeing something I'm not yet seeing, or refusing to see like a kid with a blanket over my head. We have come a long, long way and have much ahead of us. I have discovered with him parts of myself I never knew were there. As much as we revel in them together, I am constantly a little shocked and faultering at this new identity as it slowly emerges.

lovingpet

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:29:31 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Awww, pet.. I can so sympathize. God knows especially in the beginning it was sometimes a bit unnverving. But in the end, if whatever authority you are granting him is being used responsibly, then what's to worry? And you know what? If he loses his mind next month and stops being responsible, unless you got a frontal lobotomy with the collar, you can just deal with that then.

That, at least, was the thought that got me all simmered down on the whole thing.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:30:03 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

 
What I see from your OP is a strong gut-level fear factor regarding your dominant’s use of the term slave to define *you*. 
I don’t have any answers for you, but you might come up with some of your own if you can analyze some things.
What makes it scary for you?
Not understanding it in the way he understands it and not understanding my own nature enough at this point to know if it is truly aligned with his views.
What do you believe will change in your relationship if your label is slave rather than submissive?
Everything. Nothing. It seems like the bar for trust, obedience, service, breaking down walls and limits, and more will be so much higher. Then again, I hold myself to such a high standard that I'm not even sure if anything other than the motivations really make a difference.
Do you have the same strong reaction to dominant vs, master as it applies to your partner?
No. I have called him that along with one other term of endearment/power almost from the beginning.
Why or why not?
I don't know. It just feels right. Calling a dominant man Master always has since I started my journey. Being called slave, oddly enough, feels right, but strikes fear in me somehow.


(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:32:26 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I think confusion reigns because "the dividing line"  in order for there to be a dividing line the concepts have to either run on the same path or run from a greater to less than fashion in some way so there can be at some point a line dividing the two.

There is no line because they are two very separate and distinct entities so to speak.  One does not create or support the other.    However sometimes they DO overlap.  This isn't a line then between the two but a meshing of the two.  Not all slaves are or ever were or will be submisives, not all submissives are or ever were or will be slaves.  However sometimes they do have overlaps.

To me they however do stand alone.  To me, you would have to define each of them and then perhaps see if they overlap for you and how and what perspectives are changing from one to another.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:32:41 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


Some s types yearn for the absolutely release of all personal power over to a M type.
I want this.
Kind of that old negative "doormat" concept.
I don't want that.


sighs

lovingpet

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:34:33 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I belive that power-exchange happens on a continuum. 
Also, some people just get off on certain terms.  My boy (Not currently active but Mine none-the-less) likes the term slave, so when we have used terminology in the past, because I know it does it for him and his desire to be pleasing is more cleanly cued, despite my knowing that submissive is a more accurate term.  Then, again, for as wound up as I get in certain definitions and sticking to them, I'm not so wound up on rigidity of roles as long as the people in the relationship are getting their needs met. 
Best wishes,
  Davan


I get off on them (Master/slave), but at the same time, living whatever that reality mean in terms of roles scares the ever loving crud out of me. Go figure!

lovingpet

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:38:10 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		LOL!!!!! A gay man huh???? I know the feeling sometimes... errrrr.... feeling I am something I can't or maybe should actually be.

I don't think the label will be the end of us. As Red stated in a previous post, we will come through this well. It is more him awakening a perspective on myself that I have dismissed for any number of reasons. I have not been about in this "world" long, so he wants me to fully explore and grow. I appreciate him for that, even if it makes me very antsy on occasion! LOL

lovingpet

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:41:01 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings lovingpet...

Yes, there are definitions for someone who is a slave and someone who is a submissive. There are lots and lots of them and many of them sort of agree with each other. I use the following definition for the standard consensual BDSM Top/bottom, Dom/sub, Master/slave relationships and yes, people do blur them all the time and call what they are doing one thing when it is really another.

BDSM Relationshps:

Top/bottom is about what the Top does to their bottom. (Usually this is about what gets the bottom off sexually.)

Dom/sub is about what the Dom does with their sub. (Usually this is about what gets one or the other of them off sexually.)

Master/slave is about what the slave is for their Master. (Note the reversal of order and this one is not about sex for either party.)

Think about this for a while and think about people you know and what they do and why they do it....and why they say they do it. As I said, the lines do blur and yes, to some extent it is a continuum and people do slide from one to another in both directions. If you think this is harsh ask first whether or not it is true.

This is enough to get you thinking about what you are and what you want to be.

Be well....

Malkinius



Are you putting these forth as absolute definitions?

M/s would fit, but it is kinda about sex a lil

Also, once a definition is selected what is the expected way of life and dynamic going to look like. Surely this also reflects upon the character and quality of the people involved somehow. I am interested in those things too. Thanks!

lovingpet

(in reply to Malkinius)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:43:07 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Like you, I am more interested in being HIS than what he or I call me. With his background, however, I feel like slave is a loaded word for him. I have no clue if I am up to the challenge of his expectations.

lovingpet

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:45:55 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Like you, I am more interested in being HIS than what he or I call me. With his background, however, I feel like slave is a loaded word for him. I have no clue if I am up to the challenge of his expectations.

lovingpet


Seriously answer this loving hun, if he didn't think you were already there would be be calling you it? You must have been fulfilling his expectations without even realising.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Name for a Natural Dynamic - 8/15/2009 3:46:27 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

Loving pet. You are right to be worried in my opinion.
As a sub you keep the right to say no and still retain the relationship.
As a slave you may not.
Some people prefer slaves.
I'll admit to being one of them.
It's about how much you trust your partner to make the right decisions for you.
Is he capable of doing that consistently?


Yes, he is. Still freaks me out though.

lovingpet

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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