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Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 8:47:25 AM   
Prinsexx


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Status: offline 		This is a question a friend mailed me herenthis morning to ask:Being an emotional masochist...how does that work for you?   Here's what i mailed back.....Here is one of best links:
http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/index.php/Special:Search?search=emotional+masochism&go=Go
but having said that...that doesn't mean there is a definitive aspect of emotional masochism that is the same for everyone. Indeed I think it is probably one of the most hidden needs of a masochist BUT if one were to think of physical masochism minus all physical signs then one would probably be close to what emotional masochism is.
I am very clear about the routes of my bdsm. My wires are crossed. Most of my mother's expressions of love towards me as a child were both physically and emotionally cruel. In terms of the way she related to me emotionally: she always sent out mixed messages. Example: Oh I am so proud of her...with her accent on the I thus negating anything good that I ever did myself.
'You can do better than that' implying that I had never done enough. Or 'Take that look off your face'...implying that not only did she have an insight into what I was feeling but that there was something wrong in the way I was expressing what I was feeling to others. She would constantly, I mean constantly, undermine me as a child emotionally. BUT she would then get drunk (alcoholic) and make up, say how much she really really loved me. It was a cycle but I was unaware of it being a cycle as a child. It was just normality.
My most intense relationship as an emotional masochist was with a Master who would deny me contact. He would verbally humiliate me. He would do almost anything he could both psychologically and emotionally to bring me to tears. This made him feel powerful. But more extraordinary (and I know this because he explained this too me AFTER I had released myself from the collar) he explained that he needed me for MY power, for my abilities to pick myself up and be strong and start over with him.
IMO emotional masochism leaves as many scars as does physical S/M. I had been in an abusive vanilla marriage before my intent to focus on bdsm. I had assumed that once I was out of vanilla others knew the difference between abuse and use. But sadly that is not the case. And we all only understand the difference to the capacity that we do understand it. No one is perfect.
I'm still a masochist but the limits to that masochism have narrowed.  I do now have limits that is to say. I will not allow myself to be enslaved again emotionally in that way. But it was joy, don't get me wrong…..when he was wiping the tears from my eyes it was sublime. My last vestige of emotional masochism is self-deprecation but that is not something that is being done to me: it is something that I do to myself.
Question: how did/how does emotional masochism work for you?

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 9:07:32 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Status: offline 		For me emotional masochism is unhealthy, I have been guilty before of spiraling into drama, even using the phrase I am not happy unless I am miserable, but actually that isn't true, falling into that kind of relationship didn't make me feel good, it undermined my confidence and self worth. Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation. It took me a lot of really unhealthy relationships to. I am not a physical masochist, yeah I can and have enjoyed the release of pain but as a comparison to emotional they are different kettles of fish. If you are in a cycle where all you get is belittled and humiliated without being brought up again then the damage done can be ever lasting. I can't imagine getting into a relationship and having what you are describing as being something I am ok with.

Sure I have been verbally humiliated, but that I see as different to what you describe. It is done in a way that suggests that caring is still the lynch pin, there is a fine line between power exchange and abuse, and maybe it is just me, but I am probably not strong enough to view what you are describing as good for me.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 9:13:47 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation


this is going to make me sound like a real psycho. I too had an abusive mother but rather than allow myself to let the abuse cause any more damage, i had a mantra for each time the unhealthy thought process began. That mantra was "Fuck you, Mom!!!"

The cycle was broken by absolutely refusing to allow her to cause any more damage.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 8/16/2009 9:14:59 AM >

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 9:31:26 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation


this is going to make me sound like a real psycho. I too had an abusive mother but rather than allow myself to let the abuse cause any more damage, i had a mantra for each time the unhealthy thought process began. That mantra was "Fuck you, Mom!!!"

The cycle was broken by absolutely refusing to allow her to cause any more damage.


I wish I was as strong Holly, I really do. She can still now make me feel about two inches tall.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 9:44:00 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation


this is going to make me sound like a real psycho. I too had an abusive mother but rather than allow myself to let the abuse cause any more damage, i had a mantra for each time the unhealthy thought process began. That mantra was "Fuck you, Mom!!!"

The cycle was broken by absolutely refusing to allow her to cause any more damage.


I wish I was as strong Holly, I really do. She can still now make me feel about two inches tall.
Lilly...the strength i had was born of anger. I wanted revenge! I wanted to hurt her as much as she hurt me...but really that would serve no purpose. So, my revenge was being happy and living well. I had a lot of healing to do, but in order to heal i first had to get rid of the illness. Every "fuck you" was like a massive dose of anti-biotics counteracting the illness that she caused. And one of the hardest things to deal with was the understanding that SHE caused it. I was a child and helpless. It was tough, but i held her accountable.


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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 9:45:01 AM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Question: how did/how does emotional masochism work for you?


My short answer:  Not well.  It very nearly destroyed me.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:10:06 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

. I am not a physical masochist, yeah I can and have enjoyed the release of pain but as a comparison to emotional they are different kettles of fish.


I understand how emotional and physical masochism are entirely different. For me experencing physical pain is just an extension to sensation play. Contrasts of sensation are brilliant and the sharp pain say of a whip makes a beautiful contrast to soft caresses...one extends the other in the hands of a skilful dominant.
I'm wondering if the majority of emotional masochists also are physical masochists?
Certainly emotional masochism goes 'deeper' for me...or it did do when I was so into it.
And it is far more difficult for either player to assess parameters because marks don't show AND there is ften a time delay with emotional hurt that doesn't settle until after the scene.




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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:12:43 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation


this is going to make me sound like a real psycho. I too had an abusive mother but rather than allow myself to let the abuse cause any more damage, i had a mantra for each time the unhealthy thought process began. That mantra was "Fuck you, Mom!!!"

The cycle was broken by absolutely refusing to allow her to cause any more damage.


I wish I was as strong Holly, I really do. She can still now make me feel about two inches tall.
Lilly...the strength i had was born of anger. I wanted revenge! I wanted to hurt her as much as she hurt me...but really that would serve no purpose. So, my revenge was being happy and living well. I had a lot of healing to do, but in order to heal i first had to get rid of the illness. Every "fuck you" was like a massive dose of anti-biotics counteracting the illness that she caused. And one of the hardest things to deal with was the understanding that SHE caused it. I was a child and helpless. It was tough, but i held her accountable.


It's extremey tough to hold a parent as accountable, almost impossible to distinguish their caring for their harm when a child. As if diminishing them will have them leave us abandoned.
There was for me some of that fear of abandonment within that particular Master slave relationship. No room to diminish him whatsoever.


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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:23:05 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Status: offline 		So Prins, i am wondering are you saying that emotional masochism is something you enjoy?

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:26:17 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

For me emotional masochism is unhealthy, I have been guilty before of spiraling into drama, even using the phrase I am not happy unless I am miserable, but actually that isn't true, falling into that kind of relationship didn't make me feel good, it undermined my confidence and self worth. Oh it isn't an easy habit to break, like you I had a emotionally and physically abusive mother, different to yours but leaving me, like you, feeling comfortable in that kind of situation. It took me a lot of really unhealthy relationships to. I am not a physical masochist, yeah I can and have enjoyed the release of pain but as a comparison to emotional they are different kettles of fish. If you are in a cycle where all you get is belittled and humiliated without being brought up again then the damage done can be ever lasting. I can't imagine getting into a relationship and having what you are describing as being something I am ok with.

Sure I have been verbally humiliated, but that I see as different to what you describe. It is done in a way that suggests that caring is still the lynch pin, there is a fine line between power exchange and abuse, and maybe it is just me, but I am probably not strong enough to view what you are describing as good for me.


Lilly Said it best i have to agree with her

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:30:06 AM   
petmonkey


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Status: offline 		Sadly, the Wipipedia link did not work for me and i very much wanted to read it. The page claimed there was no article.
From what i understood from your post, i'd have to answer your question with,
"It doesn't work for me, ultimately."
Please note that i connect but do not limit the phrase "emotional masochism" to what some might call humiliation play, especially humiliation "roleplay" (i think that's the right word, unsure). A generalized example: D person is more valuable, has more worth in the world than i. D person is the golden center and i am mere shit-smear periphery, etc.--this is acted out in various ways in context of scenes and/or dynamic. Is this at all similar to what you are talking about?
By "work", i mean it does not produce the effects, actions and overall emotions i desire when involved with a Dom/me.  It makes me feel more disconnected from them and from myself. It makes me less trusting, less sharing, less honest and less willing to display or act on my submissive tendencies.  i hope for the exact opposites of these things. i tried a relationship out that was like the latter example, ultimately it was sour grapes for me.
i would consider "emotional masochism" a hard limit, as it left me incredilby unhealthy phsyically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually--the whole Meggilah.  At the very least, i would consider this "heavy edge play".
Perhaps the person i was involved with wasn't doing it "right".

". . . he explained that he needed me for MY power, for my abilities to pick myself up and be strong and start over with him. "

This is incredibly interesting.  Thinking of my experience with this in mind, perhaps i lacked character for not being able to dust myself off afterward in the way you are.  i had only enough strength to pick myself up and be strong and start over without the person. i think this might be difficult to wrap my head around because it might be topsy turvy thinking to societal norms on this topic.

People, i'm going to guess, might not be able to see the difference between emotional masochistic play and being a victim of abuse.  i have trouble understanding where the line is drawn between the two myself.  Thus, the "hard" of the limit. (sidenote: i could equate this to "don't play with a gun if you don't know how to check to see if it is loaded or on safety.") Is it, in your opinion, willingness to participate and the headspace that willingness comes from?  Willingness from a sense of desire rather than fearfulness?  Or am i assuming much from what you wrote?  It might be helpful to me if you describe the difference between how you view the marriage you once had as abusive versus how you view emotional masochism as you mean it in the context of BDSM play.

Furthermore, like leaving partners who denigrate me, i try to expunge self-deprecating thoughts from my mind. Apologising for my presence on Earth does not aid me in my quest to move through life with aplume. Like i said, hard limit.


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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:30:18 AM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

For me emotional masochism is unhealthy, I have been guilty before of spiraling into drama, even using the phrase I am not happy unless I am miserable, but actually that isn't true, falling into that kind of relationship didn't make me feel good, it undermined my confidence and self worth. Oh it isn't an easy habit to break


I understand this all too well.  This came into my world by way of intense codependency, which turned into overwhelming anxiety, which turned into a pit of depression that almost took me over the edge.

Recovery is never easy, old habits die hard.  But there is light at the end of the tunnel for those who want to get off the merry-go-round.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:31:47 AM   
littlewonder


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quote:

how did/how does emotional masochism work for you?


It doesn't. I see it as very unhealthy and I tend to walk away from people who try to put me in a situation where I might want to destroy myself including and especially my family/parent.




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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:39:59 AM   
kallisto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Question: how did/how does emotional masochism work for you?



It doesn't work for me. My emotional well being is too important. I will walk away (or run if need be) from a person who feels that he/she has to tear me to shreds emotionally.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:40:43 AM   
petmonkey


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Status: offline 		What was missing for many of us may be appropriate "aftercare".  What would appropriate aftercare possibly be, even? i can't think of anything.  Obviously, responses like "I didn't really mean it.", "Huh? What are you talking about? I did no such thing.", and "Whatever." wouldn't do at all.


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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 10:46:54 AM   
pyroaquatic


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Status: offline 		Emotional Masochism must mean there is an Emotional Sadist around right?

I hate to bring up issues with parents but.... yes... my mother was a gold-digging emotional sadist... and the "Fuck You Mom" mantra does work. I will admit it has left me emotionally sensitive-in some ways good because I can be extremely empathetic (if that is what you would call what it is)-at other times I am cut off from my emotions because of a defense mechanism says "Do not feel... it hurts too much."

It has been a long healing process but damn the air feels great, the sun is beautiful, and even the rain is a blessed thing. Food has never tasted better.

No, it does not work at all for me.

Give me pain but do not toy with my emotions.


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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 11:01:16 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

So Prins, i am wondering are you saying that emotional masochism is something you enjoy?

People are more afraid to have their emotional innards stripped away, lashed off to leave only the bare inner core fears, dreams and hopes.  As with most other types of scening, it's not the process of shedding that's negative or unhealthy, just the way the dynamic works...and usually, that involves a very clear understanding of aftercare by the D-type.

There are different ways to get the s-type into that state (humiliation and degradation play being just one) but it doesn't change the reality of anything. Meaning...an s-type, when being flogged by hir D-type, isn't suddenly attaching a negative connotation to the act of hitting (which usually has negative connotations). There is an underlying trust that the D-type is using it as a tool to delve further into hir.

In the same way, using more aggressive means to bare open the emotional innards of someone isn't meant for the intentional negative connotations that many people are prone to attach to such an act. Even most of the people involved in WIITWD, from what I've seen, are no less emotionally guarded than more vanilla-folk, for all the physical openness that they've embraced.

People can give up their flesh for rending and still feel an inner self-ownership that does not threaten their sense of self...but emotions are one of a number of psychological factors that are often considered too sacrosanct to treat in the same sort of way (with D/s aspects). It's interesting to consider whether many of those saying they would run away from a situation where they are being made to be stripped bare aren't actually running away from the (in all honesty, probably frightening) process of being left so naked in the first place, rather than from the supposed intentions of the other individual.

And yet...with the right partner(s), who wouldn't want to be laid bare in every possible sense, naked to the very core with someone whose protection and safety you trust?

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 8/16/2009 11:10:01 AM >

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 11:02:45 AM   
kiwisub12


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Status: offline 		My response to emotional sadism or abuse is to avoid it.  Any component of emotional sadism is not acceptable to me.

My Sir calls me slut - and for me it is a term of affection, because that is how he uses it. He doesn't use it to tear me down. Therewithin lies the difference for me.

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 11:06:13 AM   
NihilusZero


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Status: offline 		"Tearing down" is another phrase with negative connotations. Certain types of emotional sadism can be like that, yet it can just as easily be a positive "tearing away".

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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 11:10:05 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
And yet...with the right partner(s), who wouldn't want to be laid bare in every possible sense, naked to the very core with someone whose protection and safety you trust?


I agree, but for me this is something different. The OP is describing the negative affects, the dominant breaking her down and relishing in herself bouncing back up, but what happens if something snaps? What if it is tearing someone to pieces and leaving them that way? See that is what the OP strikes me as, not simply being emotionally vulnerable

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

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