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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Look, folks, let's quit arguing about a question that was never a question.  Let me state it clearly so there isn't further pointless debate:

There is no question that the female-led relationship is legit.  I am a submissive male.  I know this.  It may not appeal to the majority of men but for the ones it does appeal to it is probably the healthiest, most intelligent relationship they can pursue.  I would say the same for dominant women. 
 
Okay.  Not too hard, eh?  Now, knowing this, and knowing that it would be good for the human race to simply accept it, and being a nation of educated people, why hasn't it happened?  Gay people are portrayed as normal these days, but a man who lets a woman boss him around is considered a comic figure.  And a loser.

Is it something inherently wrong and dysfunctional about femdom that perhaps I don't see, or is femdom simply a work in progress and I just need to learn to be more patient?

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Look, folks, let's quit arguing about a question that was never a question.  Let me state it clearly so there isn't further pointless debate:

There is no question that the female-led relationship is legit.  I am a submissive male.  I know this.  It may not appeal to the majority of men but for the ones it does appeal to it is probably the healthiest, most intelligent relationship they can pursue.  I would say the same for dominant women. 
 
Okay.  Not too hard, eh?  Now, knowing this, and knowing that it would be good for the human race to simply accept it, and being a nation of educated people, why hasn't it happened?  Gay people are portrayed as normal these days, but a man who lets a woman boss him around is considered a comic figure.  And a loser.

Is it something inherently wrong and dysfunctional about femdom that perhaps I don't see, or is femdom simply a work in progress and I just need to learn to be more patient?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

MsLaT, personal testimony here: MsM and slaveKal are both amazing individuals. and he really has done his absolute best to make it easy on every submissive male he meets by telling them how to get where he's at. No string attached to his advice and he's dead on. MsM is just a blast of a woman I love being around them both and that can be said from just about anybody who spends time with them.

And for guys who find they aren't successful in their search for the Domme of their dreams they have plenty of cues to take from slaveKal.

boi

PS ...is the cat still peeing in the drain sK?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
Okay.  Not too hard, eh?  Now, knowing this, and knowing that it would be good for the human race to simply accept it, and being a nation of educated people, why hasn't it happened?  Gay people are portrayed as normal these days, but a man who lets a woman boss him around is considered a comic figure.  And a loser.

Is it something inherently wrong and dysfunctional about femdom that perhaps I don't see, or is femdom simply a work in progress and I just need to learn to be more patient?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
That’s my point. As a submissive male, I had great hopes in the mid-to-late 1990s. It used to be, before the internet, that BDSM personals rarely had any ads from women who wanted to do it as a lifestyle.

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But with the introduction of the internet it became obvious that the BDSM lifestyle was WAY more popular than anyone had ever imagined. Personal ads from lifestyle dommes seeking a mate were no longer so uncommon.

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And I thought the female domination lifestyle was, at last, really starting to come out of the closet. I had long suspected that there were secretly way more dominant females out there than there seemed to be, and that the lifestyle was similar to being gay in the 1950s. People kept it hidden and, in many cases, repressed. But if it could just come out of the closet and gain some acceptance, like homosexuality, more and more people would be out about it. Boys and girls and men and women of this persuasion would go out on dates, fall in love, get married, etc. There would be femdom bars, femdom activist groups...Female led relationships would not be uncommon

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Most of the dominant men looking for submissive women at CM want a relationship. A REAL D/s relationship. Very few want money. Conversely, a good percentage of the female dominants, probably a majority, want money.

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There are pro dommes, money dommes and scam dommes all over the place. And many of the ones who say they’re lifestyle want a tribute.

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I think that’s a clear indication that if any trend ever existed to establish female domination lifestyles as mainstream, it has utterly failed. Very few women are actually interested in a real female-led lifestyle, and the minority who aren’t asking for money are often plain women who use it to get attention from men. How truly “dominant” they are is questionable. Same with all these young girls posting to see how much attention they get as a “dominant” female. They aren’t really serious. And of course, many who are lifestyle are either lesbians or not looking for a real man.

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Men seek a person and a relationship. Women mostly just want money.

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Regarding the media acceptance of the gay culture, what you are seeing, is many decades of hard work, and struggle from with in a culture that refuses to be marginalized and penalized for thier sexuality.

It started with awareness of the culture, starting with decades of society using gays as the but of jokes and grotesque caricatures. (pretty much where Femdom is at his time in history)

Then it became more accepted....yes.....and yet if you ask any one who identifies as LGBTQ or sympathises, I dont think you will find that we do feel there is anything like a wide spread acceptance out there of us at all. Maybe at best a tolerance....but not legally, and not financially....

However there is a solution, Do not wait for society acceptance of your life and lifestyle, simply accept it in yourself, validate yourself, and when you do you ll find that none of the rest of the stuff matters all that much, you wont be bothered by how other folks play with power (and you are kidding yourself if you think asking for money is not playing with power) or if the media accepts of does not accept you or your lifestyle preferences.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
We need something like a femdom Stonewall (for you youngsters, look it up). 

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
If men required money from women to spend an hour or two with them, would you consider YOURSELF a tightwad because you thought that was bullshit?

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Please tell me you'd be perfectly fine with paying a man for a sexual experience.

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You were looking in the wrong places.  I was very active in the BDSM community in that era and it was a remarkably busy place, with many couples, singles and extended leather family groups in the femdom lifestyle.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
Which begs the question, would female dominants even exist without money?

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught


Frankly, most of the rest of your post was an incorrect perception of me and what I said.  Just being truthful about my reaction to what I read.  This thread isn't about ME and what I want.  If people want to somehow find an angle to insult me, they're going to find it.  Hope it makes them feel better.  It contributes nothing to the discussion.

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
We need something like a femdom Stonewall (for you youngsters, look it up). 

You're missing a big part of he history there if you think that all StoneWall was was standing up and saying "I am who I am and you can get over it."

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

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You were looking in the wrong places.  I was very active in the BDSM community in that era and it was a remarkably busy place, with many couples, singles and extended leather family groups in the femdom lifestyle.

You describe essentially an underground movement and seem to say "hey, it was all okay.  WE knew there was nothing wrong with us.  We just understood we were running ahead of the pack."  That's similar to the BDSM culture that I knew in the 1980s when I was living in Los Angeles.


But that's the problem.  I think femdom sexuality is actually very common.  It doesn't affect the majority of people, but it does affect a large minority.  And many people in that minority struggle for decades (especially guys) and have dysfunctional relationships, and, in some cases personal disasters because they think they're not supposed to be like that and they try to change.

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At the risk of sounding sexist (I think most women will understand what I'm saying here) it's WAY harder being a submissive male than a dominant female.  Even though we've made progress, there is still a grossly disproportionate ratio of dominant females to submissive males.  I'd say, at best, about 7 or 8 to 1.  I don't complain -- years ago it was 70 or 80 to 1.  So things are better now.  But you still can't say "I'm a submissive male," and expect people to respect you.

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Dominant females complain about "wankers."  Well, as a sub male, you get used to accepting that wanking is probably the best you'll get.  You get used to feeling like a loner when it comes to your sexuality.  You even get used to dominant women jerking you around and having no respect for you (some dominant women, unfortunately, just view male submissiveness as a toy to amuse them -- with no respect for the person at all). 

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Conversely, life as a dominant female is GREAT!!  You can definitely say "I'm a dominant female," and people will respect you.  You have prospective suitors coming through the windows -- to the point where they start to annoy you and you become insulting to them.  To the point where you begin profiles with "PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE PROFILE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CONTACT ME."  We're a dime a dozen.

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Maybe God made it that way.  Maybe god wanted to punish submissive males for being submissive, and decided, "for every 10 submissive males I'm only going to create 1 dominant female."  That way, we would probably suffer all our lives.

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And if we were to take a look at the current situation, we might be forgiven for making that assumption.

And that's the focus of my original OP.  Are us submissive males just plain fucked?  Is it always going to be like this?  Are there more dom females in the closet -- who maybe don't really understand their sexuality yet?  Or is this the end of the line?

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My concern is that we have, indeed,  reached the end of the line, and that femdom is always going to be a dysfunctional sexuality with a vastly disproportionate ratio of males to females and a good deal of money involved.

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Frankly, most of the rest of your post was an incorrect perception of me and what I said.  Just being truthful about my reaction to what I read.  This thread isn't about ME and what I want.  If people want to somehow find an angle to insult me, they're going to find it.  Hope it makes them feel better.  It contributes nothing to the discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
You describe essentially an underground movement and seem to say "hey, it was all okay.  WE knew there was nothing wrong with us.  We just understood we were running ahead of the pack."  That's similar to the BDSM culture that I knew in the 1980s when I was living in Los Angeles.

quote:

At the risk of sounding sexist (I think most women will understand what I'm saying here) it's WAY harder being a submissive male than a dominant female.  Even though we've made progress, there is still a grossly disproportionate ratio of dominant females to submissive males.  I'd say, at best, about 7 or 8 to 1.  I don't complain -- years ago it was 70 or 80 to 1.  So things are better now.  But you still can't say "I'm a submissive male," and expect people to respect you.

quote:

Dominant females complain about "wankers."  Well, as a sub male, you get used to accepting that wanking is probably the best you'll get.  You get used to feeling like a loner when it comes to your sexuality.  You even get used to dominant women jerking you around and having no respect for you (some dominant women, unfortunately, just view male submissiveness as a toy to amuse them -- with no respect for the person at all). 

quote:

Conversely, life as a dominant female is GREAT!!  You can definitely say "I'm a dominant female," and people will respect you.  You have prospective suitors coming through the windows -- to the point where they start to annoy you and you become insulting to them.  To the point where you begin profiles with "PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE PROFILE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CONTACT ME."  We're a dime a dozen.

quote:

And that's the focus of my original OP.  Are us submissive males just plain fucked?  Is it always going to be like this?  Are there more dom females in the closet -- who maybe don't really understand their sexuality yet?  Or is this the end of the line?

quote:

My concern is that we have, indeed,  reached the end of the line, and that femdom is always going to be a dysfunctional sexuality with a vastly disproportionate ratio of males to females and a good deal of money involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

At the risk of sounding sexist (I think most women will understand what I'm saying here) it's WAY harder being a submissive male than a dominant female. Even though we've made progress, there is still a grossly disproportionate ratio of dominant females to submissive males. I'd say, at best, about 7 or 8 to 1. I don't complain -- years ago it was 70 or 80 to 1. So things are better now. But you still can't say "I'm a submissive male," and expect people to respect you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Submissive males who do not work hard on their own physical appearance, personality, grooming and service skills are fucked, yes.  The ones who do hit the gym, dress and groom themselves nicely and know how to be pleasing and of service are absolute jewels, highly valued, and quickly snapped up by dommes.  It's your choice as to which category you end up falling in - desirable or not.