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ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

I am working hard.... and even though you work hard does not mean one can wait for a beautiful Domme to snatch you up.

I can't wait.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

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You were looking in the wrong places.  I was very active in the BDSM community in that era and it was a remarkably busy place, with many couples, singles and extended leather family groups in the femdom lifestyle.

You describe essentially an underground movement and seem to say "hey, it was all okay.  WE knew there was nothing wrong with us.  We just understood we were running ahead of the pack."  That's similar to the BDSM culture that I knew in the 1980s when I was living in Los Angeles.


But that's the problem.  I think femdom sexuality is actually very common.  It doesn't affect the majority of people, but it does affect a large minority.  And many people in that minority struggle for decades (especially guys) and have dysfunctional relationships, and, in some cases personal disasters because they think they're not supposed to be like that and they try to change.

Then, again, your complaint is about your own failure.  Not that the lifestyle is a failure.  It is a common one from those who have not found what they seek.

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At the risk of sounding sexist (I think most women will understand what I'm saying here) it's WAY harder being a submissive male than a dominant female.  Even though we've made progress, there is still a grossly disproportionate ratio of dominant females to submissive males.  I'd say, at best, about 7 or 8 to 1.  I don't complain -- years ago it was 70 or 80 to 1.  So things are better now.  But you still can't say "I'm a submissive male," and expect people to respect you.

  Bullshit!  I know many submissive males who are proud of who they are.  The fact that they have more courage in their convictions is no one's fault but those who don't have it.

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Dominant females complain about "wankers."  Well, as a sub male, you get used to accepting that wanking is probably the best you'll get.  You get used to feeling like a loner when it comes to your sexuality.  You even get used to dominant women jerking you around and having no respect for you (some dominant women, unfortunately, just view male submissiveness as a toy to amuse them -- with no respect for the person at all). 

So, considering your own ratio above, you were not considered by Dominant females as the cream of the crop when it came to male submissives.  Am I supposed to feel bad for you because your submissive male brothers were chosen above you?  Why shouldn't a Dominant female take the pick of the litter?

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Conversely, life as a dominant female is GREAT!!  You can definitely say "I'm a dominant female," and people will respect you.  You have prospective suitors coming through the windows -- to the point where they start to annoy you and you become insulting to them.  To the point where you begin profiles with "PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE PROFILE BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CONTACT ME."  We're a dime a dozen.

  A dime a dozen is probably the best term here.  That means, I'm going to go for the brightest, shiniest penny possible.

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Maybe God made it that way.  Maybe god wanted to punish submissive males for being submissive, and decided, "for every 10 submissive males I'm only going to create 1 dominant female."  That way, we would probably suffer all our lives.

Melodramatic much?

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And if we were to take a look at the current situation, we might be forgiven for making that assumption.

And that's the focus of my original OP.  Are us submissive males just plain fucked?  Is it always going to be like this?  Are there more dom females in the closet -- who maybe don't really understand their sexuality yet?  Or is this the end of the line?

With the information age, yes.  The "explosion" has ended.  You are just going to have to deal with the fact that male submissives will have to compete.

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My concern is that we have, indeed,  reached the end of the line, and that femdom is always going to be a dysfunctional sexuality with a vastly disproportionate ratio of males to females and a good deal of money involved.

  In other words, you do not have what is sought in the chosen few and all that is left is what you see here.  You want what they have and because you can not obtain it on your own merit, and can not or will not pay for it, you are left in the dust.  Sorry, but I can speak for many Dommes.  We do not consider ourselves charity wards.

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Frankly, most of the rest of your post was an incorrect perception of me and what I said.  Just being truthful about my reaction to what I read.  This thread isn't about ME and what I want.  If people want to somehow find an angle to insult me, they're going to find it.  Hope it makes them feel better.  It contributes nothing to the discussion.

For a moment, make this thread about you.  How many Dommes are really in the market for your fetish?  That is why you have this problem.  Oh, and the money Dommes......  They smell it!  They know that unpopular kinks are a goldmine.  That's not failure.  That's success in picking the pockets of those desperate enough to pay in order to have their desires met.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

At the risk of sounding sexist (I think most women will understand what I'm saying here) it's WAY harder being a submissive male than a dominant female. Even though we've made progress, there is still a grossly disproportionate ratio of dominant females to submissive males. I'd say, at best, about 7 or 8 to 1. I don't complain -- years ago it was 70 or 80 to 1. So things are better now. But you still can't say "I'm a submissive male," and expect people to respect you.

Firstly, no I dont agree, there are actually there are far more male subs. Also I can't say I am a woman/23 year old/submissive/middle class/white/human and expect people to respect me. I get respect when I deserve it, because of my values and actions not because of a label, and if I did get it on that basis alone I think I would struggle to respect the person giving out the respect.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Okay, it's obvious most people here want to focus on ME rather than the post.  And on the title of the post rather than the substance.  People are reading meaning into the words that simply isn't there, and reading intentions, attitudes and interpretations into ME rather than discussing the subject.  I suppose this fulfills some basic need for them.  Maybe there's a basic human need to judge, condemn, misinterpret and, especially, lecture others.

I guess it goes with the territory.  That having been said, I would like to get back to the OP and ask, in a nutshell, is this is far as femdom is going to go?  Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Okay, it's obvious most people here want to focus on ME rather than the post.  And on the title of the post rather than the substance.  People are reading meaning into the words that simply isn't there, and reading intentions, attitudes and interpretations into ME rather than discussing the subject.  I suppose this fulfills some basic need for them.  Maybe there's a basic human need to judge, condemn, misinterpret and, especially, lecture others.

I guess it goes with the territory.  That having been said, I would like to get back to the OP and ask, in a nutshell, is this is far as femdom is going to go?  Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Okay, it's obvious most people here want to focus on ME rather than the post.  And on the title of the post rather than the substance.  People are reading meaning into the words that simply isn't there, and reading intentions, attitudes and interpretations into ME rather than discussing the subject.  I suppose this fulfills some basic need for them.  Maybe there's a basic human need to judge, condemn, misinterpret and, especially, lecture others.

I guess it goes with the territory.  That having been said, I would like to get back to the OP and ask, in a nutshell, is this is far as femdom is going to go?  Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

The market is driven by men pushing money into it, not women demanding it. If there's no market, the women would disappear. Apparently there's no shortage of men willing to pay, so women will come into this realm eager to make a buck. You can just ignore that all though and not get involved in it.  And don't send cash via the Internet to total strangers.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Okay, it's obvious most people here want to focus on ME rather than the post.  And on the title of the post rather than the substance.  People are reading meaning into the words that simply isn't there, and reading intentions, attitudes and interpretations into ME rather than discussing the subject.  I suppose this fulfills some basic need for them.  Maybe there's a basic human need to judge, condemn, misinterpret and, especially, lecture others.

I guess it goes with the territory.  That having been said, I would like to get back to the OP and ask, in a nutshell, is this is far as femdom is going to go?  Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

The market is driven by men pushing money into it, not women demanding it. If there's no market, the women would disappear. Apparently there's no shortage of men willing to pay, so women will come into this realm eager to make a buck. You can just ignore that all though and not get involved in it.  And don't send cash via the Internet to total strangers.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
I would like to get back to the OP and ask, in a nutshell, is this is far as femdom is going to go?  Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Men seek a person and a relationship. Women mostly just want money.

I’m not saying there aren’t women who are on the right track. I know they are because I've talked to them. There are certainly profiles here of women who are 110 percent truly lifestyle. Some even say in their profiles that they’ll be offended by any offer of money or tribute. So they exist. No doubt about it. But c’mon, they’re WAY outnumbered by the others.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught


Well, certainly that business would dry up if it was a common thing and easy to find.  It's not, that's why there's so much money in it.

Back in the 1970s, some sub men used to say "there's no such thing in sex as a truly dominant female."  They really believed that.  They probably don't any more, but it brings up the point about ratios.  There are way more submissive men than dominant females.  It's just a fact, and CM is a testament to it.  Is that always going to be the case?  If it is, then I think any academic analysis would be that femdom is a dysfunctional sexuality.  I'm not saying there aren't individual cases where it works brilliantly and creates very deep romantic love.  I'm not (hear me? NOT) commenting on anyone's individual relationship.  Okay?  Again, NOT commenting on anyone's individual relationship.

Let me say it again so we can avoid the next 60 or 70 irrelevant posts.  I am NOT commenting on anybody's personal relationships.  I KNOW femdom is capable of producing the best love that life has to offer. 

But there's a serious problem when you have 6 or 7 male submissives for every female dominant.  This isn't something to laugh at.  This isn't something to shrug off.  This is a serious societal problem.  Not as serious as racism or sexism, but I know all of my colleagues, even the ones in the sciences and arts, (I'm a university professor) would immediately spot the descrepancy and ask...WHY?

Just because it's about sexuality doesn't mean it's not important.  Sexuality is a critical component of a person's identity as well as how they interact with society.

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ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy
A 50 year old *man* who wants to be in an *adult* relationship but treated like a child? Most women are NOT interested in raising a man-child, and the ones that are most likely will expect some kind of tribute. You think it's easy raising children? Try an adult who already knows better!

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

Try two searches:

ONE: Male Dominants--> Seeking Sub Women--> Keyword: “Tribute.” Make the search for all countries, all states. Do this on the basis of when they joined and as a text list.

You’ll note that by the fourth page, you have seen all the profiles that have that keyword in them. And in most of them, it just happens to be incidental. It isn’t referring money.

TWO: Female Dominants--> Seeking Sub Men-->Keyword: “Tribute.” Make the search for all countries, all states. Do this on the basis of when they joined and as a text list.

You have to go four pages back just to cover the profiles of women who have joined since JULY OF THIS YEAR!! And most of them do mean money.

That’s my point. As a submissive male, I had great hopes in the mid-to-late 1990s. It used to be, before the internet, that BDSM personals rarely had any ads from women who wanted to do it as a lifestyle. But with the introduction of the internet it became obvious that the BDSM lifestyle was WAY more popular than anyone had ever imagined. Personal ads from lifestyle dommes seeking a mate were no longer so uncommon.

And I thought the female domination lifestyle was, at last, really starting to come out of the closet. I had long suspected that there were secretly way more dominant females out there than there seemed to be, and that the lifestyle was similar to being gay in the 1950s. People kept it hidden and, in many cases, repressed. But if it could just come out of the closet and gain some acceptance, like homosexuality, more and more people would be out about it. Boys and girls and men and women of this persuasion would go out on dates, fall in love, get married, etc. There would be femdom bars, femdom activist groups...Female led relationships would not be uncommon

But it hit a plateau and, in some respects, regressed. Why? Well, maybe I was wrong about it being its own, independent sexuality. Maybe I was wrong in my suspicion that many women were secretly dominant. Most of the dominant men looking for submissive women at CM want a relationship. A REAL D/s relationship. Very few want money. Conversely, a good percentage of the female dominants, probably a majority, want money. There are pro dommes, money dommes and scam dommes all over the place. And many of the ones who say they’re lifestyle want a tribute.

I think that’s a clear indication that if any trend ever existed to establish female domination lifestyles as mainstream, it has utterly failed. Very few women are actually interested in a real female-led lifestyle, and the minority who aren’t asking for money are often plain women who use it to get attention from men. How truly “dominant” they are is questionable. Same with all these young girls posting to see how much attention they get as a “dominant” female. They aren’t really serious. And of course, many who are lifestyle are either lesbians or not looking for a real man.

If this, what we have now, is what it’s supposed to be, then it’s obvious that female domination is vastly inferior to male domination. Men seek a person and a relationship. Women mostly just want money.

I’m not saying there aren’t women who are on the right track. I know they are because I've talked to them. There are certainly profiles here of women who are 110 percent truly lifestyle. Some even say in their profiles that they’ll be offended by any offer of money or tribute. So they exist. No doubt about it. But c’mon, they’re WAY outnumbered by the others.

And I’m not saying it isn’t better these days. It’s WAY better than it was in the 1970s and 1980s. But it seems to have reached a dead end. And if CM is any reflection of the future of female dominated relationships, it seems to be a dud.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
But there's a serious problem when you have 6 or 7 male submissives for every female dominant.  This isn't something to laugh at.  This isn't something to shrug off.  This is a serious societal problem.  Not as serious as racism or sexism, but I know all of my colleagues, even the ones in the sciences and arts, (I'm a university professor) would immediately spot the descrepancy and ask...WHY?

Just because it's about sexuality doesn't mean it's not important.  Sexuality is a critical component of a person's identity as well as how they interact with society.

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ORIGINAL: lilboycaught
Will there always be a disproportionate number of males to females and will it always be largely money-driven?

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-Back in the 1970s, some sub men used to say "there's no such thing in sex as a truly dominant female."
-I think any academic analysis would be that femdom is a dysfunctional sexuality.
-Just because it's about sexuality doesn't mean it's not important.  Sexuality is a critical component of a person's identity as well as how they interact with society.