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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 9:53:50 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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quote:

Is it acceptable for a person to go back on a promise?
Just because he calls himself "Master", it doesn't mean he has special promise-keeping abilitiies.


I couldn't agree with this more if I tried.

I think a good rule of thumb is to be wary of the man who calls himself a Master and is beyond reproach on anything.

Apprently, this is not being passed around on little leaflets in that cloud world some of these guys are living on.

Kassie

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 9:58:24 AM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u



quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos



In my world (a place some here call a cloudy fantasy land), a Master gives or revokes anything when it comes to his slave. He certainly does not answer to her, and any pleasure or enjoyment offered to her should be seen as a gift, not a promise or obligation.









Well there goes the theory of give and receive. Being a Dom and or a slave.. doesn't mean this is all a one way street.



Some Doms take this life style to mean they are GODS.... (stands back in case lightening strikes to close to these Gods.. because of my Gods jealousy streak)



Submission is a gift.... Dominance.. in return is also a gift. This is not a one way street. In order to Dominate someone.. someone has to want to submit to the Dominant.



amayos... up until now... I thought you and taggard where in your own little worlds... now I see you 2 circle the same island....



Again.. i'm not condeming your way of thinking..for they are yours.. and the way you choose to see things... i'm not right or wrong.. just like you're not.... just like you.. sticking my 2 cents out there on the responses that are thrown out here...



I take no offense to your point of view at all. That is, after all, what these digital monstrosities called message boards are all about. It would be trite if everyone reflected the same viewpoint.

I agree and disagree with your overall statement. Submission (or the submission I idealize) is an expression of what you are and what you crave, not a "gift". Those who see submission as a gift to give and take away at a whim...are missing the point, somewhat. I will say, however, that a submissive has certain rights to have expectations met; they are allowed to negotiate and have their opinions considered and weighed by their "Doms".

That aside, let us not forget we are speaking about one who identifies with slavery in this instance. I know I beat this dead horse a lot, but it pays to understand what a slave is. Reflecting deeply upon the concept of slavery before becoming the property of another pays dividends. If you are a slave you are a slave. Romantic negotiation, flattery, explanations, and recognition of your touted "gift" is not something you are entitled to.


< Message edited by amayos -- 2/24/2006 10:19:46 AM >

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:07:07 AM   
DestinyCommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I agree and disagree with your overall statement. Submission (or the sbumission I idealize) is an expression of what you are and what you crave, not a "gift". Those who see submission as a gift to give and take away at a whim...are missing the point, somewhat. I will say, however, that a submissive has certain rights to have expectations met; they are allowed to negotiate and have their opinions considered and weighed by their "Doms".


Being submissive is who you are. Submission is an expression of that being. Submitting to one's Master is a gift.

Gifts are things that should not be taken back. Anyone who feels that they can take back a gift that they have given has not really given anything, whether that "taking back" was at a whim or not.

To some, true slaves have given themselves as a gift because they give up the moral (but alas not legal) right to take themselves back.

_____________________________

"You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get ME up pretty early in the morning." -- Ian Shoales

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:13:37 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

Is is acceptable for a Master to go back on a promise? Is Master above keeping promises?


If a Master 'won't' keep a promise made, then I can't trust his word. It can lead to second guessing what he does say, which can put me into danger. Bottom line, if your word is no good on occasion, then as far as I'm concerned, it's never good because I can't trust it. How the hell am I supposed to know when what he says is true or false if honor is mutuable?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:20:05 AM   
truesub4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander


Being submissive is who you are. Submission is an expression of that being. Submitting to one's Master is a gift.

Gifts are things that should not be taken back. Anyone who feels that they can take back a gift that they have given has not really given anything, whether that "taking back" was at a whim or not.

To some, true slaves have given themselves as a gift because they give up the moral (but alas not legal) right to take themselves back.



Looking back and remembering alot of these threads... there's something alot are forgetting ...... SLAVERY IS BEING HELD AGAINST ONES WILL....... (myself being guilty of using the term slave in comments as well)

From Biblical time to the Civil War...to some areas today.... . abuse or not.... sexual pleasure.. or just pain service... was done by slaves that where slaves against their wishes.

Submitting ones person... consentually... is not being a slave. Giving up some rights to another.. is not being a slave.. because those rights where given consentually.... they were not TAKEN with force.

One gives... and not only can.. but will take back.. what was given... as a gift... if that gift.. is being abused...some love pysical abuse... more power to them... but NO one loves mental and emotional abuse... there for gifts have been known to get a "fuck this" attitude.... submissive... or "slave"..... abuse it enough... you will find yourself sitting there with your dick or whip in your hand... trying to figure out what the hell just happened...



< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/24/2006 10:21:28 AM >

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:26:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		i did not give myself to my Master as a gift. i begged him for the gift of taking me. my slavery to him is my need. It is who and what i am. He has given me a safe place to express who i am; a place to call home.

i do what i do for him because i must. Working for him and serving him drives me. If i were unable to, i would surely be lacking. i understand many have the concept of this being a gift. To me, it is not.

i repeat what i said earlier, that if Master changes his word, he risks credibility and destruction of trust. i, however, do not view simple conversations (be they casual or serious in nature) where intentions are stated, to be promises. "I give you my word, that such and such will never happen." is giving a word. "I'll do the dishes this weekend" is not. If, years later, circumstances warrant "such n such" to happen, Master has the discretion to revoke his word on that. Having said that, it is a caring Master who explains to his slave why the situation must change. It also prevents having to deal with further issues that arise if she does not understand.

my Master is not one to go around making me promises. He did give me his word on something long ago, which he later chose to ammend, but was generous enough to tell me of it before actually ammending it, and allowed me the latitude to express my concerns about it. In his kindness, he did not actually act on the ammendment until he was certain that i no longer suffered heartache over it. He felt it was in both our best interest to handle it that way.

Since that point, he does not make absolute promises without a qualifier. ~ grin ~

~ 2 more cents in the bucket ~

(in reply to DestinyCommander)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:31:10 AM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I agree and disagree with your overall statement. Submission (or the sbumission I idealize) is an expression of what you are and what you crave, not a "gift". Those who see submission as a gift to give and take away at a whim...are missing the point, somewhat. I will say, however, that a submissive has certain rights to have expectations met; they are allowed to negotiate and have their opinions considered and weighed by their "Doms".


Being submissive is who you are. Submission is an expression of that being. Submitting to one's Master is a gift.

Gifts are things that should not be taken back. Anyone who feels that they can take back a gift that they have given has not really given anything, whether that "taking back" was at a whim or not.

To some, true slaves have given themselves as a gift because they give up the moral (but alas not legal) right to take themselves back.


In a sense one cannot disagree with your viewpoint.

Gift (from the slave perspective) being a thing given willingly to an owner without expectation or reward or payment, and the Master in turn gives by allowing it to be accepted. So long as that is kept in mind, it seems well to me.


(in reply to DestinyCommander)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:31:49 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		Just to add clarification to my earlier post:

Those things Master gives his word on, which i fully trust will never change, are:

He will never physically or emotionally cause me harm

He will exercise his Mastery of me with what he feels is in my best interest

He will always allow me to express myself, provided i do so appropriately, and he will listen to my concerns and take them into account prior to making a final decision


That is what i meant by "Promises" vs. "Intentions." If on a whim, he were to change any of the above, my trust in him would faulter and we would have serious issues to contend with. But i trust he won't do that.

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:32:20 AM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i did not give myself to my Master as a gift. i begged him for the gift of taking me. my slavery to him is my need. It is who and what i am. He has given me a safe place to express who i am; a place to call home.


Precisely. Better said than I.

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:33:07 AM   
DestinyCommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Looking back and remembering alot of these threads... there's something alot are forgetting ...... SLAVERY IS BEING HELD AGAINST ONES WILL....... (myself being guilty of using the term slave in comments as well)



Point taken.

But although we cry out again "forcing" and "against one's will", some subs just like emotional pain as much as others like physical pain. Again, to each his own.

But I digress... the OP was talking about promises, not what slavery means, and I simply point out that there is a difference between promise and decision. That difference is the intention of the one making the statement, not the interpretation of the one the statement is being made to. That said, if the one believes a promise is being made and the other does not, there is clearly a communication problem that needs resolving.

So, OP, to better answer your question, answer this: Does your Master believe he made you a promise? If so, he should keep it unless there are extenuating circumstances. If not (and it was just your impression that he did), then you need to work out the failure in communication.

_____________________________

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(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:40:56 AM   
truesub4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Looking back and remembering alot of these threads... there's something alot are forgetting ...... SLAVERY IS BEING HELD AGAINST ONES WILL....... (myself being guilty of using the term slave in comments as well)



Point taken.

But although we cry out again "forcing" and "against one's will", some subs just like emotional pain as much as others like physical pain. Again, to each his own.

But I digress... the OP was talking about promises, not what slavery means,


Then you should of used my whole quote... because it continues the whole concept... abuse one.. even mentally.. or emotionally... and you'll still find yourself sitting there.. ALONE.

And when promises are broken.... because someone simply "Changes their mind".. is abuse of trust...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:43:54 AM   
amayos


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From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Looking back and remembering alot of these threads... there's something alot are forgetting ...... SLAVERY IS BEING HELD AGAINST ONES WILL....... (myself being guilty of using the term slave in comments as well)

From Biblical time to the Civil War...to some areas today.... . abuse or not.... sexual pleasure.. or just pain service... was done by slaves that where slaves against their wishes.



Good point, but not entirely the final word. Your definition is but one out of a few accepted and legitimate definitions. The others are:

1. A person who works very hard without proper renumeration or reward;

2. A person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something or someone. * * * *







< Message edited by amayos -- 2/24/2006 10:48:45 AM >

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:44:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Then you should of used my whole quote... because it continues the whole concept... abuse one.. even mentally.. or emotionally... and you'll still find yourself sitting there.. ALONE.

And when promises are broken.... because someone simply "Changes their mind".. is abuse of trust...

I think you're throwing around the A word a little too loosely and losing perspective.

Sometimes a person does honestly just change their mind. And it can hurt. That doesn't mean the person is wrong, or bad, or evil, or abusive. There's a lot of gray area and we really can't use too broad of a brush.


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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:45:26 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

SLAVERY IS BEING HELD AGAINST ONES WILL.......


My dictionary has several definitions for the words slave and slavery which have nothing to do with being held against one's will. When I write, I often choose words which are close in meaning, but one may reflect my thought better than the other, so this is the one I choose to use. The word slave is no different. There are definitions which match, more clearly, my personal situation, and it is those definitions which I choose over the others.

Slavery 'can' be the state of being held against one's will, but it need not be taken in that context for there are other definitions as well that are more suited to a given situation.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:46:01 AM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lapis

Master is in charge. Master gives the final word on decisions. i understand and agreed to this 5 years ago.

my question to those here. Is is acceptable for a Master to go back on a promise? Is Master above keeping promises? little promises like a promise to fix the truck. or a big promise like to sepnd more time on us.

I believe, as others have said, that it depends on how the staement was said. To me, a promise is a special declaration that I do my dead level best to keep or I come back to the person and offer reparations for not keeping. It said wiht those words in the statement, "I promise to....." A simple statement like "I'll fix the truck tomorrow" is NOT a promise. It's a statement of intent with no special value if it is not kept. This statement espcially holds no value if you get it through coercion, such as through an argument.

Now it seems that there is a consensus that the Master is accountable to the slave. What type of dynamic is that? It's backwards in my opinion. The Master is only accountable to himself, if the slave does not like it then she should not get involved in such a relationship. I also don't believe in one making a promise to a slave, someone that is their property. Thats makes them accountable to something they own. Much like Taggards car example. If you're property, you need to just face the fact that you can hold no one accountable for statements not being fulfilled. Thats like asking your dog which park they wish to go run in.

_____________________________

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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:49:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Is is acceptable for a Master to go back on a promise? Is Master above keeping promises?


it could be inconsequential and accepted or grounds for begging release...depends on the circumstances and the specific dynamics that are in place in YOUR relationship~have you asked Master how He feels about going back on, or not keeping, or being above keeping promises?

Has this been a thorn in yer side for the last 5 years, a one time event, a daily happenstance, nit-picky and petty or teeming with potentially relationship-threatening consequences?

this slave had a "vanilla" husband who was "in charge" and "gave the final word on all the decisions". this slave had accepted it and looked forward to it, however, he had a nasty habit of not following through on things, becoming more and more irresponsible about financial matters and emotionally distant, etc. as it increased, it became a MAJOR problem--a daily source of animosity. the relationship deteriorated to the point of last resort--eeek, professional counseling. He promised to go, after the initial consultation...this slave showed up alone for the 2nd appointment. they said "where's your husband?" the reply? "well, he promised he'd be here..." they informed this slave they thought it pointless to continue the counseling sessions if he wasn't, at the very least, committed to keeping his promise to show up and BE fully present. as they saw it and given the situation presented, this slave had 2 choices:

Choice #1: Accept it. Accept him, his broken promises, lies, self-destructive behaviors, lack of support~emotionally, physically and financially~Accept the "worse" and "sickness" as opposed to the "better" and "health" part of the commitment this slave made upon becoming his wife. Suck it up and hope for better days ahead. you will have to rely on your faith and the value of the commitment YOU made, not the one HE made, because that is all you have going for you at the moment.

Choice #2: Reject it. Divorce him. the grounds for it were AMPLY there and only GOD could know if He would ever get past his issues. presently, he wasn't even willing to acknowledge their existence or face them...getting past them could be a long, hard and potentially life-encompassing road you logically wouldn't want to be dragged down with him. cut your losses, save yourself the heartache, you are strong, you will move on.

this slave didn't like either choice, but chose #1 anyway.

2 years later, this slave was the one sued for divorce, so she demanded his lawyer rewrite the terms to suit this slave before signing, she didn't even retain counsel--he begged to be free of his responsibility. he liked the idea of being the "husband" in our relationship-"the one in control and with the final word on all decisions", however, he was incapable of living up to the responsibility and took years to admit it.

what does this story of the past have to do with YOUR relationship? maybe nothing...maybe everything~just this slave's thoughts in response to your post.

Good luck!

(in reply to lapis)
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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 10:50:35 AM   
DestinyCommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Then you should of used my whole quote... because it continues the whole concept... abuse one.. even mentally.. or emotionally... and you'll still find yourself sitting there.. ALONE.

And when promises are broken.... because someone simply "Changes their mind".. is abuse of trust...


I quite agree with you... I was talking about pain, not abuse. My previous post was split into two parts:

1) the defense of those who inflict emotional pain on their subs/slaves through the ownership/property model by disregarding their emotional state (e.g., amaros); those subs who enter into those agreements should know what they're getting into

2) that promises should not be broken, but intentions should not be confused with promises

In no way do I condone or excuse abuse, especially abuse of trust.

_____________________________

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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 11:28:57 AM   
phoenix1


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		yes... every human being will break promises, no matter how hard they try not to... it's an unrealistic expectation that floats around in "what should be normal" land.

(in reply to lapis)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 11:37:34 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		If they are truly 'promises' and they are constantly broken... as Oothers have stated... it begins to deteriorate the relationship. True promises should not be made or broken lightly and most certainly not on a regular basis.

In addition, even if the words 'i promise' are NOT put in front of a sentence and it is just 'Your' (generic Your) word and Your word changes (on a regular basis) just because "You beat on Your chest and proclaim I am Master... You are slave... therefore, I can do whatever I choose too" is imo bullhockey.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: When a master makes a promise - 2/24/2006 11:42:28 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

If they are truly 'promises' and they are constantly broken... as Oothers have stated... it begins to deteriorate the relationship. True promises should not be made or broken lightly and most certainly not on a regular basis.

In addition, even if the words 'i promise' are NOT put in front of a sentence and it is just 'Your' (generic Your) word and Your word changes (on a regular basis) just because "You beat on Your chest and proclaim I am Master... You are slave... therefore, I can do whatever I choose too" is imo bullhockey.


i understand you are likely referring to abuse of power here but the truth is, he IS Master and CAN do what he wants.

There are consequences, however. If a Master prefers a slave who serves happily, and eagerly, he would be wise to foster that in her and in doing so, he would instill trust in her. It is logical to me that he would best benefit from happy and trusting service, so would invest accordingly to receive such.


(in reply to angelic)
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