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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:39:39 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.

I find myself less capable of maintaining a staunch declarative position with tasks when I encounter a temperamental attitude towards doing them. Realistically speaking, to say that I don't expect my s-type to necessarily like what she is being told to do is not also a carte blanche to display irreverent behavior while still doing it. Furthermore, any relationship encountering issues where there are temperamental reactions is one where (if the D-type is analytical enough of it) the possibility a burgeoning resentment becomes a concern.

There is a distinctive difference between an s-type who obeys for the sake of obedience as an act (and does it to a decent degree in a begrudging manner) and an s-type who obeys because the concept of pleasing hir D-type is a prioritized motivating factor on its own. In the case of the latter, the desire to please/serve controls their demeanor and their inner appraisal of the task even if they find it uncomfortable or displeasing.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:41:28 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.



Obedience should be one of the cornerstones to a D/s based relationship, yet the one issue which needs to be seriously consider is the human factor. It isn't  cut and dried where because a submissive doesn't obey  which causes their dom kicks them out on the curb so to speak for that action. The submissives are not perfect and yes, the idiosyncrasy of human nature will have then not obeying on occasion and the same also applies to the dominant person. This is different to a sub who chronically disobeys and isn't taking responsibility for their part in that relationship.


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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:42:40 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		My concept of obedience.

Two choices. 1. Obey. 2. Walk.

If I'm told to do something - 1 response. Yes. It gets done.

If I'm asked to do something 3 responses. (1) Yes. It gets done. (2). Yes but there's a problem you need to know about, e.g. difficulty or delay. (3) No it's not possible for me to do that. (This is a response only when it is clearly not possible for an instruction to be carried out).

If the problem in (2) is acknowledged but no change to the instruction then my response becomes (1).

My concept of obedience is absolute. There's no consideration of my feelings or emotions or thoughts and the above applies even if what I am required to do is stressful, difficult, dirty, shitty, boring, repetitive, menial, whether it arouses within me feelings of disgust, fear, whether it upsets me, causes me pain, discomfort, or anything else.

There's also no hesitation, no slacking, no question, no discussion, no negotiation, no judgment, no passive aggressive behaviour, no refusal, no half-hearted attempts, no mistakes, no errors, no forgetting.

Before the word 'done' or 'complete' was applied to whatever I did after being told or asked had to meet the standard of (1) free from error, mistake or blemish (2) had to be complete according to the dominant's perception of complete (3) not requiring any explanation or excuse as to why it wasn't completed as expected.

This is how I was trained by my formative domme in Warsaw, Poland communicating only in the Polish language (her native language). There was no margin for error allowed for any shortcomings in comprehension, understanding or communication.

This is my concept and my standard as a submissive.





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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:44:52 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

There is a distinctive difference between an s-type who obeys for the sake of obedience as an act (and does it to a decent degree in a begrudging manner) and an s-type who obeys because the concept of pleasing hir D-type is a prioritized motivating factor on its own. In the case of the latter, the desire to please/serve controls their demeanor and their inner appraisal of the task even if they find it uncomfortable or displeasing.


you summed up my thoughts perfectly. wonderfully stated.

porcelaine


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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:45:02 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

There's also no hesitation, no slacking, no question, no discussion, no negotiation, no judgment, no passive aggressive behaviour, no refusal, no half-hearted attempts, no mistakes, no errors, no forgetting.

50 points.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:46:52 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.


You can not have one without the other

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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:57:43 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
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From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		HEY!! Just handing out points all willy-nilly! Where are mine?

*Gives everyone 1000 pyroaquatic points as if that means squat.*


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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 8:58:53 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master's rules are simple...

Serve, please, obey


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:08:03 PM   
abuddingdom


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline 		Amen, LadyPact. To each and every word of your OP......

I'm blessed with an obedient submissive.  She didn't obey 100% in our earlier days. There were some growing pains , to be sure, but since committing to me she's been consistently  and completely obedient. It's a cornerstone of our relationship and I dont see how a successful D/s relationship could even survive for any length of time, much less flourish, without obedience asa cornerstone - expected by one  & given willingly and completely by the other (other than negotiated limits, unsafe or immoral orders, etc). I was proud a couple weeks ago when we were out with a Domme we both respect(and, just as importantly, like)who noted to me, privately when I sent my pretty one on an errand, how obedient she is. I replied - sincerely - that I'm not only  a fortunate but  a proud Sir,  adding that she'll do " almost anything I tell her to do". My pretty one occasionally asks for clarification and even now and then disagrees with me, but I honestly cant recall the last time she didnt obey me.........

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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:08:16 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

HEY!! Just handing out points all willy-nilly! Where are mine?


Well, if I gave out points on request alone I would be handing them out willy-nilly!

You've become quite a pleasant fellow on the boards. There's a reason.

10 points.




_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:13:03 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

HEY!! Just handing out points all willy-nilly! Where are mine?


Well, if I gave out points on request alone I would be handing them out willy-nilly!

You've become quite a pleasant fellow on the boards. There's a reason.

10 points.





*sigh* this bear has no points to give away.....maybe when I'm all done growed up 


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:14:18 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		What often causes me to have to think twice is when someone says she's looking for someone who obeys all times, but then in the same thread someone will mention something like, "if he/she does not obey, that's the end of the relationship for me" and that really causes me to be really concerned. You see, I'm very submissive, and I do everything I can think of to always make sure I'm doing what my mistress (when I'm owned by one) desires. However, there are times when a relationship can get so cozy between two people that every now and then you have to be reminded that one person does make the final decisions, and sometimes all the decisions (depending upon the relationship). I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone write about how she or he might end a relationship based on the lack of obeying.

I remember many situations where a former mistress and I were just having a fun day, and a disagreement came up that comes up in normal conversations, and it actually took a reminder of one's place for me to realize, whoops, went too far, and to reel it back in again. That's one thing I've always found fascinating about collarme; there are way too many ultimatum conversations that equate to "I'm dumping him/her if he/she does....".


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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:14:47 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

*sigh* this bear has no points to give away.....maybe when I'm all done growed up 

You know...if I knew this was going to turn into a thread about cool CM posters who I've not yet handed points out to, I might have lurked instead of posting!

10 points for bear.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:23:10 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Master's rules are simple...

Serve, please, obey

I'm going to use this to catapult back into the original topic:

From the perspective of a D-type, there's a certain catch-22: the concern for the internal status of the s-type (or the status of the relationship) and the expectation of obedience. When the reaction to a task is one of huffing or, as stella put quite well, passive-aggressive behavior, then it isn't as simple as just making the s-type obey or waiting for the s-type to obey because a mentality that treats tasks (at least on a semi-consistent basis) with a grumble or a roll of the eyes or a huff and puff or a subdued internal whine-fest noticeable in body language is one that would give the D-type pause to consider if the s-type is actually in a dynamic they are actually suited for or whether continual tasks down the line will just become liquid poured into a container that will eventually overflow into outright resentment.

It's not just the obedience but the desire to obey as a byproduct of the personal motivation to serve and to please that keeps the machine running smooth. Sure, you can praise someone's efforts for trying to continually stuff a square peg in a round whole, but being in the D-type role of the relationship, one of the responsibilities is to be objectively honest with the status and direction of the relationship and what all parties are getting out of it.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 8/31/2009 9:25:04 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:30:50 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It's not just the obedience but the desire to obey as a byproduct of the personal motivation to serve and to please that keeps the machine running smooth. Sure, you can praise someone's efforts for trying to continually stuff a square peg in a round whole, but being in the D-type role of the relationship, one of the responsibilities is to be objectively honest with the status and direction of the relationship and what all parties are getting out of it.


Yet I look at that from the angle of if a dom type feeds the desire then the sub type wil then desire to obey as much as possible. I liken it to a symbiotic dynamic where the dom type encourages the desire to obey through positive reinforcements and the sub type will desire more and more to obey and please the dom.


< Message edited by beargonewild -- 8/31/2009 9:31:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:41:28 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Yet I look at that from the angle of if a dom type feeds the desire then the sub type wil then desire to obey as much as possible.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.

I would think that a D-type upholding to the parameters expected (responsible decision-making, adequate caretaking) is putting in Hir firelogs into the furnace and that the, by s-type obeying, pleasing and serving, puts hir equivalent furnace fuel in.

I think I'm looking at it from a perspective of how I think the roles should generally act/think if they are in those roles whereas I think I'm reading from your words above that the obedience is  only wrought (or should only be wrought?) by the "positive reinforcement" of the s-type...which I don't disagree with in concept, but it's a modus operandi that seems to rely on the s-type adopting a "me" mentality in order to determine if they're pleasantly motivated enough to respond properly rather than a "Hir" mentality where the service and pleasing is the default thought-process.

Does that subtle difference make sense?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 9:57:12 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed. 




That's it!  Simple shit.  No Drama No whining.  I've been known to say  "Shut up and take the pain".  If my bitch doesn't do as she is told "see ya bye"

Motown BadOne


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RE: Obey - 8/31/2009 10:08:07 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

. . . I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.


Obey. . . yes.

What if you ask for something that is harmful or damaging?
Is temp damage ok?
Is perma damage ok?

If we get all technical about it, a nice rough paddling, when applied frequently, causes perma damage to the nerve bundles. So will criss crossing your whip strokes. Some of the pain reduction is truly from a physiological rising pain threshold but at some point, “leather ass” sets in and that is from the physical damage of deadening nerves.

My point is that when it comes to spanking some ass and doing perma damage, that is usually OK because both parties want it. But what if the authority figure wants a degree of damage the subordinate does not want?

I promise to tell you my answer later. In the meantime, what is your answer?


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obey - 9/1/2009 1:00:12 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		fast reply...

i have been taught to protect the property (myself especially) first even if that means disobedience to the particular order and even if that means protecting myself from the D-type(s)... it is obedience to the first rule...paradoxically my disobedience usually lies in not taking care of myself...usually trying to do too much resulting in seizures and/or fibromyalgia pain or not letting the D-type know of a psychological problem that causes a break down...

on the other hand, when faced with my disobedience (read: when caught because i tell on myself) i am so overwhelmed with regret and shame that i do not need to be punished by someone else; i do a much worse job than anyone else could...so in an effort not to go down that road again because i don't need to feel the extreme highs and lows anymore like the out of control bipolar i was, i try to obey at all times, even when that means resting or going to meetings when there are chores to be done and letting myself be transparent...

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RE: Obey - 9/1/2009 1:30:35 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		To obey... i even said it in my vows and thought that was very sexy

when He tells me He wants coffee i usually drop what ever it is i am doing and get on with making Him a cup... but on occasion my mind might be totally engaged with other things... i might even make it to the kitchen and somehow get side tracked there... and He might come in maybe 15 minutes later to see what happened to His coffee to find me busy with the washing or some other chore... well of course He immediately threatens with divorce or subjects me to the most severe punishment... i mean, well... shoot me

on the other hand He expects me to be exclusively His... while i might have desires to be shared... He tells me that will not happen... i have to follow His rules

Also this autumn some window frames need painting and He will expect me to get on with this rotten job blech

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Profile   Post #: 40
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