RE: 102 minutes that changed America (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 5:32:34 AM)

I just used him as a prime example of a non ringleader who was subjected to enhanced  interrogation. I have no intention of getting into his possible guilt or innocence in this thread.



Sanity -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 6:03:47 AM)


I don't think that the Rolling Stone is any more credible than High Times when it comes to actual journalism, and Googling the author's name returned nothing to validate any claim that he's real a journalist. Still, any fifteen year old with that kind of purported background wouldn't be allowed to play with my young ones.



rulemylife -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 7:06:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Legal means like predator drones?


And under which administration did their use begin?



OrionTheWolf -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 8:13:22 AM)

And are they still being used? The problems that we reaped in the Middle East are due to foreign policy failures from both parties, and across many administrations. There is enough blame to go around, but is there enough solution?


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Legal means like predator drones?


And under which administration did their use begin?




GreedyTop -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 8:14:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw_EEDkD0Hc&feature=PlayList&p=7C78BA45E16F885E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

try here :D


Thanks, Tazzy.

It took me 3 nights to watch it.  Very powerful.



rulemylife -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 8:37:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

And are they still being used? The problems that we reaped in the Middle East are due to foreign policy failures from both parties, and across many administrations. There is enough blame to go around, but is there enough solution?



Yes.

And this is another of the few items which I agreed with Bush.

Only he did too little too late while diverting our military resources to Iraq.



Arpig -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 8:59:03 AM)

quote:

Still, any fifteen year old with that kind of purported background wouldn't be allowed to play with my young ones.
Fair enough, but that just ducking the issue in question...he clearly wasn't a 9/11 ringleader, and the odds of him having,at age 15, any real actionable information is pretty fucking slim...yet he was interrogated using "enhanced"methods....in direct contravention to your assertion that only 9/11 ringleaders were tortured.

Instead of sidestepping into irrelevant areas like whether your kid would be allowed to play with him,how about you just admit you were wrong, and admit that a lot of people who were in no way actually connected to 9/11 were tortured.



Rule -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:21:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw_EEDkD0Hc&feature=PlayList&p=7C78BA45E16F885E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

In the first part, at 8:47 minutes, there is a purported witness, who says "Ehm ... Oh, I was walking down ... Chamber street and fully saw the entire event ... with my own eyes I saw the entire ... I saw the plane ... from the sky, pass right into it. Amazing."

An eye-witness! Not someone who may be suspected of sitting in some room watching a doctored clip and telling what he saw on the video, but someone who asserts to have been walking on the street. Who was this rare and important witness? From his many pauzes and incoherent lines, and lack of emotion, even nonchalance, it is to be assumed that he is repeating a recently rehearsed and purposely badly remembered script. Why are we not allowed to know the (verified) identity of this purported witness? I want to know everything about this person. I want a name for Politesub53 to have someone to torture.



AnimusRex -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:33:08 AM)


quote:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."


GODDAMN CANADIAN COMMIES!!!!

Glad we don't believe things like that in America.



luckydawg -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:37:34 AM)

Rule that will be a valid criticism, as soon as you post your actuall SSnumber and Name/adress, so you can be investigated.



Arpig -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:38:28 AM)

If you go to the History channel site posted back on page 1 you can get information on each of the locations fromwhich each clip was filmed and who shot the film as well as an interview with the filmmaker.
I doubt it will change your opinion however, as you appear to have already decided that the voice on the film was of somebody repeating a "rehearsed and purposely badly remembered script" rather than somebody in shock. Your approach begs the question...if this was all planned, then wouldn't they have made their eyewitness reports well in advance, and wouldn't they have done more than one take to insure that the reports sounded appropriately upset? Why would the planners of the attack made such an amateurish fake eyewitness report?




thishereboi -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:51:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I just used him as a prime example of a non ringleader who was subjected to enhanced  interrogation. I have no intention of getting into his possible guilt or innocence in this thread.



I know and you were right he wasn't. His guilt or innocence didn't really enter into things when I read the article. I guess I was to focused on hating his parents to think about it.



Arpig -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:54:38 AM)

Yeah, they are real winners...right up there for parent of the year award.



Rule -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 9:58:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
If you go to the History channel site posted back on page 1 you can get information on each of the locations from which each clip was filmed and who shot the film as well as an interview with the filmmaker.

I am not interested in that information. I want to know the name of that witness, so that Politesub53 may know whom to torture.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Your approach begs the question...if this was all planned, then wouldn't they have made their eyewitness reports well in advance, and wouldn't they have done more than one take to insure that the reports sounded appropriately upset? Why would the planners of the attack made such an amateurish fake eyewitness report?

I haven't ever been involved in a movie production, but from what I understand, a movie with only one person in it takes lots of production time. If one wants to make a mega production with hundreds or thousands of people in it that will require centuries of preparation - unless it is done sloppily, which this was. In the art of illusion, it is sufficient to present only a few pieces of the illusion to convince the observer to dispose of his disbelieve and to think that he observes a real event.

As for the second part of the 102 minutes, at 3:40 minutes there is some convincing female screaming of "Oh, my God!" Very impressive. Females have such a talent for drama. If you doubt me, then merely ask any woman on the street to scream this a couple of times.

Anyway, they later asserted that a jet ... a jumbo flew into the building. In the footage these girls shot, I saw no such plane. Neither did they say that they saw the plane themselves with their own eyes. Likely they were merely repeating what someone else told them. Who were these girls? I want to know their names, so that Politesub53 may know whom to torture. Hm, one of them was called Megan.

In the same second part there is at 8:40 minutes again an anonymous person who says: "What just hit it?"
"An airplane."
"Another one?"
...? "The first one"
"What was that?...Just now."
"That was a united... I swear it looked like a united airplane that crashed into the side of it."

Who was this anonymous person who so definitely asserted what it looked like (not what it actually was)?



Arpig -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:07:00 AM)

quote:

I am not interested in that information. I want to know the name of that witness, so that Politesub53 may know whom to torture.
Ummm, first of all I assume that the guy they interview,the guy who shot the film,is then guy who is speaking as the film clip is playing...this may not be the case, but I am sure that the History Channel has that information for you. And secondly, Politesub53 has made it very clear that he isn't interested in torturing anybody.



Rule -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:27:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
I am sure that the History Channel has that information for you.

Fortunately I am not a hero, but a coward. Asking such questions may get one killed. I prefer for a hero to ask such questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Politesub53 has made it very clear that he isn't interested in torturing anybody.

Right you are. Me neither; it is not Christian. Nevertheless, I would like a hero to present us the names of these witnesses. As well as a lot more of information about the various (real or especially purported) victims.



Politesub53 -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:36:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw_EEDkD0Hc&feature=PlayList&p=7C78BA45E16F885E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

In the first part, at 8:47 minutes, there is a purported witness, who says "Ehm ... Oh, I was walking down ... Chamber street and fully saw the entire event ... with my own eyes I saw the entire ... I saw the plane ... from the sky, pass right into it. Amazing."

An eye-witness! Not someone who may be suspected of sitting in some room watching a doctored clip and telling what he saw on the video, but someone who asserts to have been walking on the street. Who was this rare and important witness? From his many pauzes and incoherent lines, and lack of emotion, even nonchalance, it is to be assumed that he is repeating a recently rehearsed and purposely badly remembered script. Why are we not allowed to know the (verified) identity of this purported witness? I want to know everything about this person. I want a name for Politesub53 to have someone to torture.



My posts have been clear on the issue, I dont agree with torture.

That said, are we going to have another one of your bullshit claims on what happened ? It was a terrorist attack, it happened and you should be ashamed to suggest otherwise.



Rule -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:46:19 AM)

I am just asking questions. Any judge would ask the same questions. Rather vague and incoherent testimony by anonymous and mysterious witnesses are not admissible in any righteous court of law. Ask any lawyer.

Please quote me on any bullshit claim that I made in this thread. (You cannot and it behooves you to apologize for throwing unwarranted dirt at me.)



DomKen -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:53:08 AM)

Rule are you really trying this again? The WTC towers were hit by two boeing jets on the morning of 9/11/01. The towers collapsed due to prolonged fires fed by jet fuel from those aircraft. Overwhelming documentary evidence exists of these facts.



Rule -> RE: 102 minutes that changed America (9/9/2009 10:58:38 AM)

I am merely saying that no judge will be convinced by the assertions of anonymous purported witnesses. Well, maybe USA judges will be, possibly the entire world population except me may be convinced of such - but I have valid and legitimate questions: who were these anonymous witnesses?



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