RE: Religion Discriminates (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:35:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I dont know... unless its food, i dont shop on sundays. you would have to ask someone who does. and im not interpreting them for my convenience. if i were, i would have included all ten as being viable, alive and necessary for living in today's world.

I have already conceded that wasnt the case. Please, dont put words into my mouth, or assume you know what i am saying. Instead, ask, as i have of you.

And, just so you know, because someone interprets something in a way differently than you do does not make it invalid... else... the whole point of science, politics, health, religion and philosophy would be just as invalid.



I'm glad you didn't include mathematics in that list, science also isn't really interpreted i.e. it states theories that have been demonstrated to have real world applications. Nobody interprets Newton’s Laws of motion how they wish or conservation of momentum or the conservation of energy or Young's modulus or Hooke’s law to name a few. If people are interpreting those things as they wish they will not end up with the right answer. Occasionally one may be superseded e.g. Newton's laws of motion but if they still work they are still used.

Words are open to interpretation yes. We should ask the Pope what those ten commandments mean, after all he has the ultimate view right? Based on his being superior etc.

'Thou shall not put words in her mouth' Didn't read that anywhere.[;)]



KYsissy -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:36:58 PM)

we could all become Baha'i and end all the bickering.

just sayin'

I forgot the word "end" thus the edit



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:43:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I dont know... unless its food, i dont shop on sundays. you would have to ask someone who does. and im not interpreting them for my convenience. if i were, i would have included all ten as being viable, alive and necessary for living in today's world.

I have already conceded that wasnt the case. Please, dont put words into my mouth, or assume you know what i am saying. Instead, ask, as i have of you.

And, just so you know, because someone interprets something in a way differently than you do does not make it invalid... else... the whole point of science, politics, health, religion and philosophy would be just as invalid.



I'm glad you didn't include mathematics in that list, science also isn't really interpreted i.e. it states theories that have been demonstrated to have real world applications. Nobody interprets Newton’s Laws of motion how they wish or conservation of momentum or the conservation of energy or Youngs modulus or Hooke’s law to name a few. If people are interpreting those things as they wish they will not end up with the right answer. Occasionally one may be superseded e.g. Newton's laws of motion but if they still work they are still used.

Words are open to interpretation yes. We should ask the Pope what those ten commandments mean, after all he has the ultimate view right? Based on his being superior etc.

'Thou shall not put words in her mouth' Didn't read that anywhere.[;)]



"Nobody interprets Newton’s Laws of motion how they wish or conservation of momentum or the conservation of energy or Youngs modulus or Hooke’s law to name a few."

Thats because mathematics is finite.. not theory. And im equally sure that many did doubt gravity.... the laws of motion.. ect. Because many ideas come from debate.

Until such things are proven, they are all open to debate and interpretation. As i said before, all these conversations are just debates until one side or the other have proven their convictions.

All i do know is that christians work, and hard, on the sabbath. Im not sure why that seemed to be such an unsettling point for you.

And why do you assume the Pope is the authority?



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:50:06 PM)

Mathematics is the language of science, this is the key point here. Most things in science are proven with mathematics long before they are proven in practice through experimentation. There are some exceptions obviously like the so called life sciences (biology etc) but even in those now people are sequencing DNA with mathematical models on computers. The FSS can split up several mixed up DNA samples to try matches with the DNA database.

Even the other weird life sciences like sociology heavily rely on mathematical statistics as proof of a theory. You can't avoid it this is what science is.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:52:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And why do you assume the Pope is the authority?

I don't know who put him in charge I preferred him when his name sounded like a rodent based KFC meal.



GotSteel -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 4:53:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The same ten commandments that atheists and others state we dont need to live a moral or good life?

They are basically written into our laws already, with maybe an exception or two.

So, again, i ask, what does "god" expect of me, that the law doesnt expect of you?


quote:

ORIGINAL: A table claimed to be written by god but which conveniently needed to be kept in a box where other people weren't allowed to look at it.
1. I am the Lord your God
2a. You shall have no other gods before me
2b. You shall not make for yourself an idol
3. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your father and mother
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10a. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10b. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor


1. Has nothing to do with morality and isn't even a commandment.
2. Has nothing to do with morality.
3. Still not to the morality...
4. Nope.....still not there.
5. I'm in favor of that, at least for most parents. Some shouldn't be honored, but how could that translate into a law?
6. Finally a law, an almost universal one and one that predates the ten commandments.
7. Does that make poly immoral? If that's a law shouldn't Bill Clinton be in jail?
8. There's law two, another law that plenty of other cultures figured out without the ten commandments.
9. Does that mean perjury or just making up rumors? Is bearing false witness moral if it's not against your neighbor?
10. So that means it's completely ok if it's not your neighbors?

The first four have nothing to do with morality other than possibly promoting religious discrimination and have no business being in a court of law in this country. They are the reason I strongly oppose putting up the ten commandments outside court houses. As for the rest, two or three out of ten isn't a very good average, it seems like we should be able to put up a better list than that.



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/10/2009 5:09:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The same ten commandments that atheists and others state we dont need to live a moral or good life?

They are basically written into our laws already, with maybe an exception or two.

So, again, i ask, what does "god" expect of me, that the law doesnt expect of you?


quote:

ORIGINAL: A table claimed to be written by god but which conveniently needed to be kept in a box where other people weren't allowed to look at it.
1. I am the Lord your God
2a. You shall have no other gods before me
2b. You shall not make for yourself an idol
3. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your father and mother
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10a. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10b. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor


1. Has nothing to do with morality and isn't even a commandment.
2. Has nothing to do with morality.
3. Still not to the morality...
4. Nope.....still not there.
5. I'm in favor of that, at least for most parents. Some shouldn't be honored, but how could that translate into a law?
6. Finally a law, an almost universal one and one that predates the ten commandments.
7. Does that make poly immoral? If that's a law shouldn't Bill Clinton be in jail?
8. There's law two, another law that plenty of other cultures figured out without the ten commandments.
9. Does that mean perjury or just making up rumors? Is bearing false witness moral if it's not against your neighbor?
10. So that means it's completely ok if it's not your neighbors?

The first four have nothing to do with morality other than possibly promoting religious discrimination and have no business being in a court of law in this country. They are the reason I strongly oppose putting up the ten commandments outside court houses. As for the rest, two or three out of ten isn't a very good average, it seems like we should be able to put up a better list than that.




LOL

are you disappointed that you cant?

I dont live my life by the ten commandments, not in the way most assume i should. I dont believe the Pope is the ultimate authority, nor do i need him to intercede for me with god. I dont believe i need to run to church every sunday... or any day. I dont need to be in a building to have a relationship with him. I dont need to support those who demand i do, but, if i go to church, i do drop a few bucks in the collection plates. The reason why is simple... many of them are hard working men and women and do amazing things in their communities for the benefit of those communities.

I was not the one who claimed i lived my life by the ten commandments... or that i felt god expected anything from me....


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
Although the downside of this reasoning is that you may as well read James and the Giant peach to get an idea as to what god expects of you.
Although Roald Dahl obviously at the time didn't realise he was writing the word of god.

What makes you think "god" expects anything of me?

Those ten commandments?



I even admitted some of those commandments were not in our laws. But i will address your posts, even though you seem to ignore many of mine.

1-4.. dont disagree at all.
5... a law against the children, it doesnt. A law against the parents? Truancy laws are a good example of how not honoring the parents can be a bad thing.
6... totally agree...
7... half of congress and previous presidents would be in jail, along with many on this site. not too long ago, alienation of affection was a real claim in civil courts. And if you live in North Carolina, South Carolina, Hawaii, Illinios, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota or Utah, this law is still on their books, so, yeah, its illegal.
8.. agree
9. purjury laws can be a pain. Also, report a false crime and see what happens. So, yeah, "bearing false witness" is illegal as well.
10. if you wish to make the attempt to say that neighbor only means the people living directly beside you, then go for it and i hope it helps you feel better. i tend to think of my community when neighbor is used.



GotSteel -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/11/2009 7:52:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
5... a law against the children, it doesnt. A law against the parents? Truancy laws are a good example of how not honoring the parents can be a bad thing.

The first part of your response is completely incomprehensible to me, sorry. My point is "honor" is vague enough not to be terrible useful. If it's supposed to mean something like obey, then my issue would be that it's extremely immoral to tell a child to obey an abusive/pedophile parent.
7... half of congress and previous presidents would be in jail, along with many on this site. not too long ago, alienation of affection was a real claim in civil courts. And if you live in North Carolina, South Carolina, Hawaii, Illinios, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota or Utah, this law is still on their books, so, yeah, its illegal.

My suspicion is that those laws have been invalidated somewhere else, like the US Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas (2003)539 US 558 But if someone wants to put up a plaque that says "don't murder, don't steal and cheating on your wife isn't good" I don't have a problem with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
9. purjury laws can be a pain. Also, report a false crime and see what happens. So, yeah, "bearing false witness" is illegal as well.
10. if you wish to make the attempt to say that neighbor only means the people living directly beside you, then go for it and i hope it helps you feel better. i tend to think of my community when neighbor is used.


If you interpret 9 that way, sure. I'm pointing out that for the work of an omniscient god it isn't very clear. How would 9 and 10 apply to foreigners?

I'm not disappointed that we can't do better because we have done better, our civilizations morality is vastly superior to one that would murder people for tying their shoes on Sunday. 



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/11/2009 6:30:12 PM)

quote:

I'm not disappointed that we can't do better because we have done better, our civilizations morality is vastly superior to one that would murder people for tying their shoes on Sunday.


Oh come on now. Back that one up.

And what cant you comprehend? that there are people out theere who do belief in a higher power, if you will, that dont follow the "party" lines? I dont need to hit a pew every sunday, despite what many man believe about religious people. I dont suscribe to bing forced to giv out ten percent of my income in the form of tithes, but, i do donate to many religous organizations, and ven non religious ones.

And what amazes me still is all this talk of science and proof, yet, no one seems to actually believe the proof that science has provided.




GotSteel -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/11/2009 9:43:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I'm not disappointed that we can't do better because we have done better, our civilizations morality is vastly superior to one that would murder people for tying their shoes on Sunday.


Oh come on now. Back that one up.


"Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death." Exodus 31:15

Tying a knot is a form of work, it's one of the thirty-nine melakhot.





quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And what cant you comprehend? that there are people out theere who do belief in a higher power, if you will, that dont follow the "party" lines? I dont need to hit a pew every sunday, despite what many man believe about religious people. I dont suscribe to bing forced to giv out ten percent of my income in the form of tithes, but, i do donate to many religous organizations, and ven non religious ones.

This is a complete subject change and has nothing to do with our conversation about the "ten commandments that atheists and others state we dont need to live a moral or good life?" Sometimes I don't respond to your entire post because you wandered off from the conversation.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And what amazes me still is all this talk of science and proof, yet, no one seems to actually believe the proof that science has provided.

And yet another subject change......



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/11/2009 11:45:13 PM)

How is that a subject change?

Did they not find proof of jericho?

They even found proof of a major flood and the ark, no?

Yet, the more they prove, the more atheists wish to discount. And thats ok. It makes you sleep better at night, so go for it. As i have said time and time again, when its proven one way or the other,,,,

Now.. as for the chang...


quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And what cant you comprehend? that there are people out theere who do belief in a higher power, if you will, that dont follow the "party" lines? I dont need to hit a pew every sunday, despite what many man believe about religious people. I dont suscribe to bing forced to giv out ten percent of my income in the form of tithes, but, i do donate to many religous organizations, and ven non religious ones.

This is a complete subject change and has nothing to do with our conversation about the "ten commandments that atheists and others state we dont need to live a moral or good life?" Sometimes I don't respond to your entire post because you wandered off from the conversation.


This was in response to this....

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
5... a law against the children, it doesnt. A law against the parents? Truancy laws are a good example of how not honoring the parents can be a bad thing.
The first part of your response is completely incomprehensible to me, sorry. My point is "honor" is vague enough not to be terrible useful. If it's supposed to mean something like obey, then my issue would be that it's extremely immoral to tell a child to obey an abusive/pedophile parent.
7... half of congress and previous presidents would be in jail, along with many on this site. not too long ago, alienation of affection was a real claim in civil courts. And if you live in North Carolina, South Carolina, Hawaii, Illinios, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota or Utah, this law is still on their books, so, yeah, its illegal.


which is in reply to other comments posted. IF you wish to be that nit picky, this thread wasnt even about the 10 commandments, but about how religion discriminates.

i have yet to be shown how a religion discriminates. It doesnt, people do.

And now we are mixing religions.. do please keep them straight...

And in answer to your posting about tying knots...

Matthew 12
Lord of the Sabbath
1 In that opportune-time1 Jesus went through [a] corn-field on the Sabbath, and his disciples hungered, and began to be plucking the ears and eating. 2 But the Pharisees having seen [this] said to him: Behold your disciples do that which is not allowed to be doing on the Sabbath. 3 But he said to them: Do you not know what David did, when he and those with him hungered? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the shew- bread, which was not allowed for him nor those with him to eat, but only for the priests alone? 5 Or do you not know in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are blameless? 6 But I say to you that here [is] something2 greater than [the] temple. 7 But if you knew what this is:
I desire mercy and not [a] sacrifice.3
you would not have condemned the blameless. 8 For the son of man is Lord of the Sabbath.
9 And proceeding on from there he came into their synagogue. 10 And behold [there was a] man having [a] shriveled hand. And they asked him saying: Is it allowed to heal on the Sabbath? in order that they may denounce him. 11 But he said to them, What man among you, who will have one sheep, and if this [sheep] fall into [a] pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of [it] and raise [it] out? 12 Therefore [a] man is worth much more than [a] sheep. Therefore it is allowed on the Sabbath to do good. 13 Then he says to the man: Be stretching forth your hand. And he stretched it out, and it was restored healthy like the other. 14 But when they came out the Pharisees took council against him how they may destroy him.

http://www.faithfulbible.com/nt/Matt12.htm#12



nephandi -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/12/2009 8:43:55 AM)

Greetings

quote:

i have yet to be shown how a religion discriminates. It doesnt, people do


Usually I would say good point to this statement. But it is not completely correct, while most religions do not really discriminate in it's basis, quite a few have discriminating ideas in their holy books or the basic concepts of the religion. Off course you could say that the religions are created by pepole so it is the pepole who discriminates, but still, the discrimination is still a part of the basics of the religions. Like in the Bible women are presented as less worth than men, and Jews are presented as having greater worth than other pepole, them being the chosen pepole. Or in the Quran, Muslims are said to be of far greater worth then non believers. Many Shamanistic paths put greater value of the members of the pepole they originated from then others and so on. Yes pepole discriminates and have put the discrimination right into the religions.

I wish you well



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/12/2009 9:03:37 AM)

Because, Nephandi, at the time those things were written, that was the norm, it was how women were treated. It wasnt till centuries later that women obtained the right to vote or hold property in their own right. Women were obviously left out of the governmental birth in the US by men who didnt uphold the christian view of life, they were more libertarians, masons, ect.

Is everything Socrates wrote way back when still applicable today? Im sure many things written by many people have outdated notions, but were true when they were written. Yet we dont discount the man, or his views, as hogwash because we have grown.



GotSteel -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 5:22:31 AM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How is that a subject change?

Did they not find proof of jericho?

They even found proof of a major flood and the ark, no?

There's another subject change, that has nothing to do with discrimination or the morality of the ten commandments. I'm just explaining why sometimes I don't comment on your whole post.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And now we are mixing religions.. do please keep them straight...

False, we were talking about the ten commandments. You're the one who switched to the new testament.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And in answer to your posting about tying knots...

Quoting passages about how people wanted to kill Jesus because they had read the ten commandments is a good example of my point that our civilizations morality is superior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
i have yet to be shown how a religion discriminates. It doesn't, people do.

I agree that title of this thread doesn't really make sense, that was my first post. A thread about whether or not religion causes discrimination would have made more sense.



Arpig -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 7:36:10 AM)

quote:

Religion has never hurt anyone. Religion has neveer killed, maimed, demeaned, belittled or anything else.
really? And an Auto da fe wasn't a religious ceremony then...?



mnottertail -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 7:38:55 AM)

Or the decimation of the scandinavian countries, or the crusades, Bernardo Gui and Cardinal Xerxes and the Medicis and Borgias were just having you on? Phillip of Spain?

Ron



nephandi -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 7:58:23 AM)

Greetings

So what is a religion then tazzygirl, is it the original ideas of those who created those religions, or do we pick and choose what is part of the religion after what is politically correct to day? What is the basis of a religion, it's heart, and when we change to much of a religion, do we not really create a new religion, with a new set of ideas, based on, but hardly the same as the old?

As for Socrates.Off course some of his ideas have been disproven, but they are still part of his work, they are not written out of his work and no longer credited him, even if they are not practiced any longer.

Society change, but how much can we change an idea, before it is no longer that idea, but are a new concept all and off itself?

Be Well



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 8:03:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Or the decimation of the scandinavian countries, or the crusades, Bernardo Gui and Cardinal Xerxes and the Medicis and Borgias were just having you on? Phillip of Spain?

Ron


None of those were religions, they were people who were in charge. The Borgias are a prime example. No where in the bible did it tell them to throw a party with prostitutes.



tazzygirl -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 8:07:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Religion has never hurt anyone. Religion has neveer killed, maimed, demeaned, belittled or anything else.
really? And an Auto da fe wasn't a religious ceremony then...?


Actually, i would not consider that a religious ceremony, no more than i would have considered the poisoning of over 900 people by the order of Jim Jones.

As i have said before, the path to hell is paved with good intentions.



Tantriqu -> RE: Religion Discriminates (9/13/2009 8:14:17 AM)

Of course, religion is just an excuse for racism, or tribalism if you prefer: you can do what you want to goyim, just don't enslave a neighbour:

And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, whom thou mayest have: of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them may ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they have begotten in your land; and they may be your possession. And ye may make them an inheritance for your children after you, to hold for a possession: of them may ye take your bondmen for ever; but over your brethren the children of Israel ye shall not rule, one over another, with rigour. JPS Leviticus 25:44-46



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875