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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 9:02:42 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I'm not suggesting that Obama had anything to do with this in any way.

BUT.

If this were Bush's organization, if he had anything to do with an organization such as this when something like that came out, that fact would have been trumpeted from the top of every mountain and mole hill.

ACORN is tied to Obama though, so this is going virtually unreported.

So what I AM saying is, there are always two standards.








I so dont hold with tossing this into a partisan argument. But, Sanity, Bush was asked to investigate, to withhold funding, to even close their doors. I dont see this as anything more than another company who either is dirty at the bottom, or at the top. They do good things. We just need to do some weeding in their gardens.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 9:21:18 AM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, the underage thing is strictly out of the equation, but is sexually and physically abusing women ok with you? It ain't with most of the legal world, consentual or no. Careful about the stone thingie, chief.

Ron


You'll notice I clearly said "legal rights" in my post for a reason. Well, you didn't notice it "chief" but anyone who actually read my post did.


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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 10:00:06 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, the underage thing is strictly out of the equation, but is sexually and physically abusing women ok with you? It ain't with most of the legal world, consentual or no. Careful about the stone thingie, chief.

Ron


You'll notice I clearly said "legal rights" in my post for a reason. Well, you didn't notice it "chief" but anyone who actually read my post did.



Not to discount the wrong doings of all those involved, but, wouldnt you expect someone with that much money to be able to afford to bring in that many underage girls to at least dress a bit better and have actual financial backing that they wouldnt have to go to a free agency for help to set up their little venture?

Not only that, but would they not have to have proof that the couple was actually going to commit that crime of underage girls before the "authorities" could do anything?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 10:09:03 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

BUT.

If this were Bush's organization, if he had anything to do with an organization such as this when something like that came out, that fact would have been trumpeted from the top of every mountain and mole hill.

ACORN is tied to Obama though, so this is going virtually unreported.

So what I AM saying is, there are always two standards. ORIGINAL: Sanity




Sanity, this is a matter that is more important than partisan axe grinding. Unless you believe the president was involved in giving aid and comfort to sex traffickers, I am asking, in just this case, that you not bring Bush, the treatment of republicans or any other political matters into the equation. There are plenty of opportunities to do so on other issues while keeping our focus in this matter on something I am confident is abhorrent to those on the right as it is to those on the left.


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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 11:00:13 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Gee that's odd, I know a lot of "working class people" and none of them belongs to "Acorn."
Some of them belong to the Teamsters though.
"Acorn" claims to be "the biggest" eh?

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 1:57:04 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Do those rights include importing underage girls for the sex trade? Advising these people about their legal rights is one thing. Advising them how to skirt the law is entirely another.
no of course they don't!! Don't be ridiculous.

quote:

I agree that the baby should not be thrown out with the bath water. I see this as an incident in one ACORN office with a few ACORN employees and should be dealt with as such.
Exactly!!


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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/13/2009 2:02:51 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Not only that, but would they not have to have proof that the couple was actually going to commit that crime of underage girls before the "authorities" could do anything?
I am pretty sure they would, but I am not entirely clear on how far along the road a criminal conspiracy has to be in order for it to be chargeable.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 1:11:12 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Well the first thing they will have to prove is that FOX is behind this.

The journalist, Jamie O'Keefe is saying they had nothing at all to do with this and he was working on his own so unless ACORN has some real proof, I doubt they will bring anything against FOX for fear of a FOX countersuit.

OH... btw...

The New York video came out today, so Ms Lewis' statement is not only silly, its now proven wrong too

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 1:17:05 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Do those rights include importing underage girls for the sex trade? Advising these people about their legal rights is one thing. Advising them how to skirt the law is entirely another.
no of course they don't!! Don't be ridiculous.



Don't be ridiculous??? You just championed ACORNS advocatcy of pimps! Where do you draw the line on proping up criminal enterprizes Arpig? If you are saying that community basied advocates for the poor should helping a loathsome lot like pimps, than spinner's question is more than valid.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 1:41:53 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

The New York video came out today...

And, dare I say, it's a doozie!

New York Post

K.








< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/14/2009 1:42:19 PM >

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 1:50:54 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Don't be ridiculous??? You just championed ACORNS advocatcy of pimps! Where do you draw the line on proping up criminal enterprizes Arpig? If you are saying that community basied advocates for the poor should helping a loathsome lot like pimps, than spinner's question is more than valid.
Pimps and whores are people,they are citizens and have the exact same rights as do you. ACORN (or any other civil rights group) should indeed advise those people on their legal rights. They should advise anybody at all who comes through their doors regardless of if the person is a stockbroker or a crack whore.
Their mandate is not to judge their clients, but to advise them...to give them information as to government programs and such things. What they do for a living is none of the advocacy groups' business.

Asking if this extends to advising their clients on how to go about breaking the law,well obviously not. What is it with you? Can't you see how the one in no way even implies the other?


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 3:47:42 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Arpig... In Baltimore, then DC and now Brooklyn, ACORN people didn't even bat an eye and freely gave advice on how to break the law. They should have pick up the phone, called the police and tried to keep them there until the police arrived, especially give the crime the supposed.

Given legal advice is for lawyers to do...if pimps needs advice on civil rights I suggest they go to legal aid or use some of the money they confiscate from their workers to see a paid attorney.

BTW... do you even know what a pimp is??? Seriously... because suggesting that community based, tax supported, poverty advocacy groups should help them find housing, food and medical care thus helping and allowing them to keep exploiting sex slaves doesn't sound like you know what they do. Should House of Ruth offer them those things too? How about The "Unmentionable Ones" Welfare Fund? Maybe the Rainbow Collation?

Also... how do you feel about James O'Keefe and others on the Right using Alinksy's methods so effectively here and in other arenas? Such tactics seem a little dangerous in the hands of the other side do they not? O'Keefe btw is a self proclaimed Alinksy Scholar and he has quoted him in just bout every interview he's given this week.

Curious indeed if Barrak Obama's health care initiave and possibly the remander of his agenda, not to mention the hopes and dreams of a generations of 60's and 70's activists, are brought to a spectacular crashing end by the political Right adopting the tactics of Saul Alinsky.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 4:23:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Actually this is the tactics of news magazine shows and clumsily done at that. O'Keefe best have had very good accountants hide his funding source or he and they are going to be out a lot of cash.

I'm sure Saul Alinsky would find it hilarious that the right was having fits in 2009 over a book he wrote for the anti Vietnam War movement.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 4:34:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Stanford Law Grad Engages in “Risky Business”
October 6, 2008 · 4 comments

What’s the difference between a lawyer and a prostitute?
A prostitute will stop screwing you when you’re dead.

How often is it that I can post about hookers and lawyers in the same post?

Last week, Cristina Schultz, a 2001 graduate of Stanford Law, was indicted in federal court for allegedly failing to pay income tax on money she earned as a prostitute in 2003. Yes, do the math, that’s after she graduated from law school.

This story is notable for a couple of reasons. One, it’s my favorite provision of the tax code: illegal activities are still subject to taxation. Whether it’s gambling, bribery or prostitution, you still have to pay up on your income.

http://www.taxgirl.com/stanford-law-grad-engages-in-risky-business/

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 4:34:48 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Also... how do you feel about James O'Keefe and others on the Right using Alinksy's methods so effectively here and in other arenas? Such tactics seem a little dangerous in the hands of the other side do they not? O'Keefe btw is a self proclaimed Alinksy Scholar and he has quoted him in just bout every interview he's given this week.
ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy




Actually, I wouldn't be surprised. Just another case of the Right wing not being able to come up with their own ideas for getting anything done.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 4:34:55 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Arpig... In Baltimore, then DC and now Brooklyn, ACORN people didn't even bat an eye and freely gave advice on how to break the law. They should have pick up the phone, called the police and tried to keep them there until the police arrived, especially give the crime the supposed.
I have already stated my position on the appropriateness (or rather lack there of) of what was done. I feel that the workers involved should be fired, and if this hadn't been a media sting,then I would have included them all in a conspiracy charge.

quote:

Given legal advice is for lawyers to do...if pimps needs advice on civil rights I suggest they go to legal aid or use some of the money they confiscate from their workers to see a paid attorney.
Agreed, for specific legal advice one should go see a lawyer, but unfortunately many people cannot afford one, and legal aid, in Ontario at least...I don't know about anywhere else) will  not provide you with free legaladvice of anything but the most basic type...usually they advise you to either dropthe matter or to hire a lawyer...great advice that is. Now I grant you that any pimp worth his salt should already have a lawyer or two on retainer....I know I sure as hell would if I were making a living in an illegal trade.

quote:

BTW... do you even know what a pimp is??? Seriously... because suggesting that community based, tax supported, poverty advocacy groups should help them find housing, food and medical care thus helping and allowing them to keep exploiting sex slaves doesn't sound like you know what they do. Should House of Ruth offer them those things too? How about The "Unmentionable Ones" Welfare Fund? Maybe the Rainbow Collation?
Yes I know exactly what a pimp is,and what one does. That in no way changes their rights. The Constitution has no waiver provision for people who are scum, it applies to all. And yes, an advocacy group that is not religion-based really has no place making value judgments about the moral worthiness of those who come to them for advice/help. That is what they are there for, not to decide who should or should not get the help.

Seeing as the House of Ruth, as far as I can see, is involved with helping women and children I fail to see how they would be relevant to the question...what would a pimpbe doing dealing with them? Unless said pimp were a woman with some kids I guess, in which case then I guess she should be helped, assuming she meets the other criteria that HoR uses for determining who to help.Its pretty much the same thing with the Child Welfare Fund (I am not sure just which one you mean...google it and you'll come up with a whole lot of them). They are there to fund projects to aid children on welfare...hardly the description of the average pimp if you ask me. As for the Rainbow Coalition (again, there's a whole shitload of them) the best I can figure they are basically a PAC and thus wouldn't be dealing directly with anybody the way ACORN does, but they would be an appropriate group to advocate for the rights of sex workers.

quote:

Also... how do you feel about James O'Keefe and others on the Right using Alinksy's methods so effectively here and in other arenas? Such tactics seem a little dangerous in the hands of the other side do they not? O'Keefe btw is a self proclaimed Alinksy Scholar and he has quoted him in just bout every interview he's given this week.

Curious indeed if Barrak Obama's health care initiave and possibly the remander of his agenda, not to mention the hopes and dreams of a generations of 60's and 70's activists, are brought to a spectacular crashing end by the political Right adopting the tactics of Saul Alinsky.
How do I feel about it? Nothing, makes no difference to me. And no the tactics don't seem scary tome in the slightest...sorry. In fact I had never heard of Alinsky until a few weeks ago when one of the righties on CM mentioned him...and since then the righties seem to mention him at least once every thread. I have no idea really who the guy is,or what he wrote,other than what has been posted on CM and what I gleaned from a quick read over of the Wiki article on him. Hey if his tactics work...go for it, what do I care.

As for Obama's healthcare reform...its a joke, it doesn't reform anything really...other than to guarantee the insurance companies even greater profits in the future, and thats about it...health care costs in the US will continue to rise faster than anywhere else in the world. So what do I care if it fails, especially if they remove the public option...the only halfway decent idea in the whole plan. As for the rest of his agenda, well we'lljust have to wait and see what it is to decide if it should or should not get carried out, but from what little we have seen so far I suspect that it should...the guy's a moderate and has no really out-there ideas so far as I can see. As to them being defeated by using Alinsky tactics...whoopdeedooo, what difference does it make. If I am not mistaken the book you are all referring to is some sort of "Handbook for Radicals", and it doesn't specify that it is for left wing radicals, so why wouldn't it be useful for right-wing radicals...after all a radical is a radical, no matter what political stripe.

You all seem to think that somehow this guy and the tactics he wrote about are the cause of the progress the left has made over the last few decades, well I hate to be the one to break it to you, but it isn't Alinsky or his tactics...its the basic correctness of the initiatives, the basic decency of welfare and similar programs, and the fact that most people in the Western world support those ideas. Most people are soft-left on social issues, nobody wants to see kids go hungry or to see young mothers beaten black and blue...its just human nature to want to help them...ergo welfare systems.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/14/2009 4:35:23 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Its almost interesting to watch everybody sling partisanship mud. Almost. Imagine for a minute, dropping all the "Democrat" "Republican" "Conservative" "Liberal" "Moderate" labels and simply focus on the actions of individuals. Then judge that. You've already lost the argument when you simply take a swipe at Bush, Clinton and Obama as "Republicans" or "Democrats".

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 5:24:08 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Fraud etc. See the Food Lion v ABC lawsuit. ABC lost but Food Lion failed to prove actual damages so didn't get anything.

O'Keefe's actions in this case is identical to the ABC's reporters. He went into ACORN's offices fraudulently and repeatedly attempted to get ACORN employees to do something against the law or ACORN's policies. So all ACORN has to prove is actual damages, which might be tricky, and O'Keefe and his monetary backers are on the hook for the actual damages plus potential punitive damages. It could get very very expensive for Rupert.



Or ACORN..

http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/15/exclusive-acorn-illegally-operating-in-maryland/

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 5:31:58 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Congress responded and it is a doozie:

" WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A poverty-rights group that has drawn the ire of conservatives suffered another setback in Washington on Monday when the U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly to deny it access to federal housing funds. "

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE58D6CW20090914

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 5:48:40 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Congress responded and it is a doozie:

" WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A poverty-rights group that has drawn the ire of conservatives suffered another setback in Washington on Monday when the U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly to deny it access to federal housing funds. "
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf



Ok....so now ACORN is gone...or greatly diminished.....what would you suggest be done to replace the advocacy functions they used to perform. Even if it is necessary, and if there was any systemic aid or comfort given to those believed to be child sex traffickers it was necessary, it is not a victory for anyone. It's a tragedy for everyone.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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