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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 6:01:49 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		It's not a tragedy for the taxpayers who are funding this criminal enterprise. 30 have already been indicted around the country. That was before this all happened. More tapes to come.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 6:30:20 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		One of two things, and they both seem pretty obvious to me:

1) Gain donations from other sources

2) The ethical people that are working within it, start a different non-profit organization and this time put some things into place to enforce ethical and lawful actions.

Now some questions back to you:

Are there any other organizations that perform similar or same tasks?

What did people do before ACORN?


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Congress responded and it is a doozie:

" WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A poverty-rights group that has drawn the ire of conservatives suffered another setback in Washington on Monday when the U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly to deny it access to federal housing funds. "
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf



Ok....so now ACORN is gone...or greatly diminished.....what would you suggest be done to replace the advocacy functions they used to perform. Even if it is necessary, and if there was any systemic aid or comfort given to those believed to be child sex traffickers it was necessary, it is not a victory for anyone. It's a tragedy for everyone.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 6:30:36 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

It's not a tragedy for the taxpayers who are funding this criminal enterprise. 30 have already been indicted around the country. That was before this all happened. More tapes to come.
ORIGINAL: servantforuse


30 out of how many? And what of the people who aren't going to get legitimate housing advice, community services and other needs that this organization was at least intended to address? Again I ask you, what do we put in ACORN's place. Or shall we just act as if every poor person in America is either a pimp, a whore or too lazy to work?


(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 6:33:20 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Do good deeds excuse bad one's? ACORN has likely did much good, and it is sad that those in charge of it did not have better safeguards in place. If ACORN is that precious, you should be mad as hell at those that were in charge. Also, there were claims recently that ACORN did not receive that much in government funds, so this really should not hurt them that much.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

It's not a tragedy for the taxpayers who are funding this criminal enterprise. 30 have already been indicted around the country. That was before this all happened. More tapes to come.
ORIGINAL: servantforuse


30 out of how many? And what of the people who aren't going to get legitimate housing advice, community services and other needs that this organization was at least intended to address? Again I ask you, what do we put in ACORN's place. Or shall we just act as if every poor person in America is either a pimp, a whore or too lazy to work?




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 6:46:07 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		30 of how many ? What difference would that make. The AG in Louisiana has appointed a task force to investagate acorn in New Orleans. These tapes are just the tip of the iceburg. 

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:01:43 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Do good deeds excuse bad one's? ACORN has likely did much good, and it is sad that those in charge of it did not have better safeguards in place. If ACORN is that precious, you should be mad as hell at those that were in charge. Also, there were claims recently that ACORN did not receive that much in government funds, so this really should not hurt them that much.
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf



I am very mad at those in charge. And I believe that if there is any ANY systemic approval or acceptance of the idea of sex trafficking in their organization, it should be taken apart until stick does not touch stick nor stone touch stone. I do ask, however, if we might spend a few moments considering what we can and should do for those innocent of this matter who this organization was meant to serve. Why is that an inappropriate question?


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:09:15 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Has everyone seen the latest tape ? The ACORN empolyee claims to have had her husband killed. She is being investigated for a possible murder. You can't make this stuff up. Tape number 5 is coming out tomorrow. Stand by.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:37:32 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
And I believe that if there is any ANY systemic approval or acceptance of the idea of sex trafficking in their organization, it should be ...






My concern is not limited to this specific matter, Spinner.  This just lends itself to headlines.  My objection to the ACORN model is the entitlement approach they bring to every table they sit at, or demand to.  They make a nice-living, escorting people to the free-fish line.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:42:32 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

My concern is not limited to this specific matter, Spinner. This just lends itself to headlines. My objection to the ACORN model is the entitlement approach they bring to every table they sit at, or demand to. They make a nice-living, escorting people to the free-fish line.
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



Once again we get to a basic disagreement. You seem to believe the model of anyone who is poor, uneducated and barely staying afloat as being lazy, worthless freeloaders who just don't have the incentive to better themselves because of the easy life they lead on the government tit. I don't.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:54:08 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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One of my biggest concerns about the whole scandal is the lack of media coverage. For example, ABC News anchor Charlie Gibson claims he was completely ignorant of the ACORN scandal five days after it broke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKDO0YGhhXE&feature=player_embedded#t=20

The incompetence of our news media is a scandal all its own.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 7:57:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


Once again we get to a basic disagreement. You seem to believe the model of anyone who is poor, uneducated and barely staying afloat as being lazy, worthless freeloaders who just don't have the incentive to better themselves because of the easy life they lead on the government tit. I don't.




I am very glad that we are a nation with a safety net, Spinner.  Where we disagree is in your apparent willingness to have it become a multi-generational entitlement hammock, where the resources for those that really need them have been stripped away by fraud and abuse, and the cycle of poverty maintenance spins ever faster and wider.




_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 8:22:00 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

I am very glad that we are a nation with a safety net, Spinner. Where we disagree is in your apparent willingness to have it become a multi-generational entitlement hammock, where the resources for those that really need them have been stripped away by fraud and abuse, and the cycle of poverty maintenance spins ever faster and wider.

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic




I am far from in favor of a multi-generational hammock. I work hard for my money too and I would like to keep as much of it as possible. However, most of the fraud and abuse that occurs is perpetrated by the administrators of these programs, not the recipients.

Let me give you an example. A while ago it was discovered that New York City was housing people on welfare in hotels that you wouldn't leave a pig in. Given a choice between staying in a place like that and living on the sidewalk, I would have to give the matter a good long think. How much was they city paying for these disgusting, dangerous, holes? They were paying $3,000.00 per month.

It might be a good idea to stop punishing the poor and needy and start cleaning up things so that leeches aren't making profit off of the very programs designed to give humanitarian aid.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 9:23:41 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		It is not an inappropriate question, but one I cannot answer. I leave the compassion to others, when applied to a general aspect. My compassion is reserved for those I know and deal with personally. I select my own charities to contribute to, and I decide which people I wish to help. I believe in natural consequences of life, and sometimes that means people suffer through no fault of their own.



quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Do good deeds excuse bad one's? ACORN has likely did much good, and it is sad that those in charge of it did not have better safeguards in place. If ACORN is that precious, you should be mad as hell at those that were in charge. Also, there were claims recently that ACORN did not receive that much in government funds, so this really should not hurt them that much.
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf



I am very mad at those in charge. And I believe that if there is any ANY systemic approval or acceptance of the idea of sex trafficking in their organization, it should be taken apart until stick does not touch stick nor stone touch stone. I do ask, however, if we might spend a few moments considering what we can and should do for those innocent of this matter who this organization was meant to serve. Why is that an inappropriate question?




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/15/2009 11:03:26 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


Let me give you an example. A while ago it was discovered that New York City was housing people on welfare in hotels that you wouldn't leave a pig in. Given a choice between staying in a place like that and living on the sidewalk, I would have to give the matter a good long think. How much was they city paying for these disgusting, dangerous, holes? They were paying $3,000.00 per month.




Appalling!  This is what our welfare system has produced.  The horror stories I could tell you from my own area...  The Housing Authority was paying rental rates on houses that were far beyond what the local market could bear, and what working families could afford, with awful consequences for the communities.  Don't get me started on Section 8.

We need massive reform in our social welfare system.  It cannot be a lifestyle, nor must the process be so bogged down and bureaucratic to prevent fraud that people who need help cannot get it.  We must help people motivate themselves.

The conversation isn't easy.  These are federal programs, but the states vary tremendously in how they are administered.  The number was getting tossed around recently that 30% of US welfare recipients are in the State of California.  That does tend to affect my perspective.  YMMV

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/16/2009 3:21:10 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

Appalling! This is what our welfare system has produced. The horror stories I could tell you from my own area... The Housing Authority was paying rental rates on houses that were far beyond what the local market could bear, and what working families could afford, with awful consequences for the communities. Don't get me started on Section 8.

We need massive reform in our social welfare system. It cannot be a lifestyle, nor must the process be so bogged down and bureaucratic to prevent fraud that people who need help cannot get it. We must help people motivate themselves.





It isn't an easy conversation to have but perhaps it is a worthwhile conversation to have. Might I suggest you start a thread for just this conversation by itself/ I think this deserves to be considered by itself rather than as a sub-topic of ACORN's current situation.



< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 9/16/2009 3:22:35 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/17/2009 12:49:06 AM   
BelleRose


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/4/2009
Status: offline
well now a 5th tape has been released. San Diego

As to the "media sting" some have said... I must say "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink".
Sure the rogue journalists taped without prior approval. That is one thing. If each individual jurisdiction deems it a chargeable offense, then so be it. If ACORN chooses to go after them at a civil level., so be it.
However.. no one coerced these employees. They offered the advice they did, including how to hide/mask illegal activities, of their own volition. Being caught on tape does NOT negate the facts of what was said. Again, the bring of any criminal charges against either side of the expose' would be up to the individual jurisdictions.
I did wonder though, this evening when the 5th tape was released. How many more will surface and how much more backtracking will ACORN do to spin it. And at what point will legislators and businesses that do work with ACORN take strides to ensure that the positive things that are done by ACORN continue to be provided to those who truly need it, even if it means that some other group(s) other than corrupt ACORN do it.

Are these offices merely bad acorns that fell off a good tree? or is it an diseased tree that happens to have some healthy acorns survive.

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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/17/2009 11:00:10 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		As I  am making this post, the House of Representatives is voting on a motion to defund ACORN.  As of now, it is passing.

(in reply to BelleRose)
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RE: ACORN responds and its a doozie... - 9/17/2009 4:20:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

30 of how many ? What difference would that make. The AG in Louisiana has appointed a task force to investagate acorn in New Orleans. These tapes are just the tip of the iceburg. 


I believe its 30 convictions, not just indictments.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 58
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