RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama...

RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (Full Version)

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Louve00 -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 8:31:33 AM)
One example of it for me would be....I have a friend who I knew all along was a racist, but because she was my friend, she "overlooked" the fact that my husband is black. She was also a staunch, true, devoted, hate anything republican type democrat. When Obama was nominated (not even elected yet, just nominated), she re-registered herself as an independant. I said nothing to her, she said nothing to me. Am I assuming? yes. But damn, its so obvious.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 8:37:23 AM)
quote: Notice how those who oppose President Carter's statement try and make it 'all' instead of 'some? Carter's quote: "I think an overwhelming portion..." "Overwhelming" doesn't reference a tiny, minor, non-influential, disenfranchised group under any definition. As obtuse as Carter himself, it indicates a majority of the opposition is racially motivated. In the face of the results of this Administration, that reference is BULLSHIT. quote: I've heard and seen the worst sorts of racist bile in reference to him. I hope you did your best to make those morons feel uncomfortable expressing those racist ideas in your presence, as do I. However, traveling all over the world, I have not run into any racial reference regarding Obama. A LOT of disagreement and disbelief that he has been so ineffective; but more associated with his lack of practical administration experience in running anything, as well as the realization that academic exercises in political theory do not apply to the real world. Carter is of another generation, and his personal experience and prejudice, his belief that AA and EEO are needed because Blacks are not capable of success without them; are not applicable to today's reality. Carter believes that any contrary position to Obama's MUST be racially based as a first thought. He's a sad, old, irrelevant man. THIS JUST IN.... Jimmy Carter says that President Obama's remark regarding Kanye West; "he's a jackass!" proves that the white half of Obama's genetic code is racist.

Arrogance -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 9:16:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Living in the south, I can honestly say I've never heard anyone refer to him in the way that panda did. Just as honestly, I will say I've seen those types of words more from his supporters. I think Obama supporters desperately want race to be the basis of the attacks against him, almost need race to be the basis for the simple reason that it allows them to dismiss any further debate on whatever topic is being discussed. Arrogance's bullets btw have more to do with who the man is than with race. The born in America debate raged a few years ago over arnold, when gop rabid mouth foamers saw him as a potential second coming of reagan. And honestly, religion has always played a part in politics. There were many people who were upset at Kennedy being catholic. Both of those folks were noticeably white. I don't dislike Obama. What I dislike is exactly the same thing I disliked about the Bush years, namely that half of America will defend anything he does because of the D next to his name, and half will attack anything he does because its not a "R". Politicians are only liars and assholes because we allow them to be based upon our insane desire to belong to one group or another. They only promote and pass legislation that screws the country, a good portion of the electorate because we can't stand each other. It's not about the man. It's about the party. Dems hate Republicans and vice versa. If Obama wasn't in there and some short Texan was, we'd be making chimp jokes and calling him a liar too. quote: 1) That he's a Muslim. If he were white, this of course wouldn't be an issue. 2) That he wasn't born in America... again, would this come up if he weren't white? 3) That he's a secret terrorist... Noticing a trend yet? The Arnold issue was because Arnold actually WAS born outside the US. Moot point. Kennedy actually was a Catholic. Obama is a Christian. His major controversey involved his patronage of a controversial Christian church. The color of his skin and rabid-idiotic southern jingoism causes the Muslim accusations to occur. Would they be calling JFK a muslim? No, he's white.... muslims aren't white! Moot point.

Sanity -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 9:22:04 AM)
That one got a hearty chuckle out of me. [:D] Damn racists are everywhere... Move over, Reds. Make some room under the beds. You've got company! quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth THIS JUST IN.... Jimmy Carter says that President Obama's remark regarding Kanye West; "he's a jackass!" proves that the white half of Obama's genetic code is racist.

Arpig -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 10:42:47 AM)
Seems to me that the question is not if race is an issue in the opposition to Obama, but rather how much of an issue it is. It may well account for a lot of the vitriol and the loonier aspects (the birthers or the he's-a-secret-Muslim/terrorist group). It may also account for most of the Tea Party folks who had no idea what they were protesting that were featured in the video on a different thread. However, as Merc has pointed out there are legitimate issues here as well. Clearly not all those who oppose Obama are racially motivated, but just as clearly some are. What matters really is how many, how much of the opposition can really be dismissed as racially based, and how much has to be addressed as legitimate. This is a question that we all have to ask oursleves honestly,and to accept the answer we find just as honestly. I suspect that if we do this then those who oppose Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer they get, and that those who support Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer as well. And to Sanity...I would agree with you about the socialism issue if there were any real socialist plans on the drawing board, but going by what has been admitted publicly there are none...he may have such plans for the future, but he hasn't revealed them yet.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 10:58:49 AM)
I think think this is a difficult issue because it isn't, pardon the pun, black and white. There are a lot of shades of gray. There are a lot of things going on at once in this matter and they all need to be looked at. 1) There ARE some serious white racists in this country. They don't like a black man in the white house and never are going to like a black man in the white house. I like to believe that these aren't a major demographic in this matter, but they are a loud and attention getting splinter. 2) There are some serious black racists in this country. They are more than willing to point out how evil, rotten and worthless white people are at every opportunity. If they plan a picnic and it rains, they will scream out how it is a racist act on the part of white America. Again, I tend to believe there are about as many of them as there are white racists. They're also as loud and attention getting as the white racists. A good idea would be to take both groups, strand them on the same island and let them work it out. 3) There are those using this for their political advantage. If you call a person racist for attacking Obama's policies, you negate the need to defend these policies. If you claim that you are viewed as a racist you no longer have to defend your opposition and you are now the victim. There are a goodly number of both of groups milking this one on all four tits. 4) There are those who are afraid. I have seen this a lot over the last six months. It seems that a lot of people are afraid that because there is a black man in the white house, white people are going to have bad, racist things done to them. Whether it is a fear that their opposition will be viewed as racism, or that decisions and policies are going to be enacted that are punitive to non-blacks in some kind of rage inspired revenge for past suffering, there is a great sense of anxiety. There may well be an underlying current of "I know what the minority has had done to it in the past. Now I feel like I am in the minority. I am concerned that these things may be done to me." To this last group, we must calmly speak some truths. Yes, there are black bigots out there as well as white. Obama, however, has not descended to that level. I have yet to see a single case where he or any official of his administration has labled any of his opponents racist for speaking their opposition. In fact, when Governer Patterson brought up this issue recently, claiming that he and Obama were victims of racisim by the press and other politicians, he recieved a very strong admonition from the administration that the president didn't want anything to do with that position. I have asked and still do for one single citation of the president claiming that any opposition, no matter how shrill and strident was the result of racisim. Still, at the very least hypervigilance on belalf of a lot of nervous white people remains. So, while I think that Carter's comments were accurate about a very small percentage of the population, I would say it would be very wrong to call it the overwhelming racisim that is causing the anger. If anything, the race, racism and the idea of the "race card" being played is a result of the anger, not the anger the result of those things. With all these different things in play, it is impossible to bring this down to a "racist/non racist" concept. It would be a mistake to even try.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 11:00:57 AM)
quote: Clearly not all those who oppose Obama are racially motivated, but just as clearly some are. What matters really is how many, how much of the opposition can really be dismissed as racially based, and how much has to be addressed as legitimate. This is a question that we all have to ask oursleves honestly,and to accept the answer we find just as honestly. I suspect that if we do this then those who oppose Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer they get, and that those who support Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer as well. Arpig, There is another side to this position that I would represent offsets the number of caucasian bigots; that is consideration of the black bigots. I discount the race card because there as just as many on both sides who see, and vote, race first. 95% of black voters went to the ballot for Obama and only 4% for McCain Are 100% of the polarity reported representing voters altruistic who voted strictly on the issues? Current policy, education system, and special interest groups are motivated to keep the race issue active. Black and white participants focus on the green money they can make from it, to the point that they will avoid at all costs doing anything about it. Carter's argument is weak on many fronts and represents a generation of opinion (note opinion not people) that needs to die off as soon as possible. The worse thing it does is to take focus away from the issues to focus on a subject that would be behind us, if only people who were in power, like Carter, believed their own rhetoric that all people are equal. All it would require would be to eliminate all the laws and regulations that make some people 'more equal' based only on skin color. To the beneficiary of any such program he/she must have a tinge of doubt on their abilities. To the individual told he/she would have qualified for the job "if only" he/she were black, it rationalizes for them that any prior generation's prejudice they may have been trying to repress, gets perpetuated. Mr. Carter's comments insure those sentiments will continue.

dcnovice -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 11:05:48 AM)
quote: THIS JUST IN.... Jimmy Carter says that President Obama's remark regarding Kanye West; "he's a jackass!" proves that the white half of Obama's genetic code is racist. LOL from across the aisle! [:)]

Arrogance -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 11:13:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Clearly not all those who oppose Obama are racially motivated, but just as clearly some are. What matters really is how many, how much of the opposition can really be dismissed as racially based, and how much has to be addressed as legitimate. This is a question that we all have to ask oursleves honestly,and to accept the answer we find just as honestly. I suspect that if we do this then those who oppose Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer they get, and that those who support Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer as well. Arpig, There is another side to this position that I would represent offsets the number of caucasian bigots; that is consideration of the black bigots. I discount the race card because there as just as many on both sides who see, and vote, race first. 95% of black voters went to the ballot for Obama and only 4% for McCain Obviously there are plenty of black bigots. But also think about where most blacks fall in the socio-economic ladder. A higher percentage of them than whites are in lower income families and area, most of which end up voting democrat. I'm not in anyway discrediting the fact that there are black racists. But that is a skewed statistic and I would imagine that in most presidential elections, the black vote has gone primarily to the democratic candidate.

Arpig -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 11:19:40 AM)
Hi Merc (btw its good to see you posting a lot these days). I agree with you pretty much on all you said, especially the bit about black racism...I did notice that during the election there was plenty of coverage of white racists who wouldn't vote for Obama because he was black, but very little coverage of black racists who would vote for him because he was. Isn't voting for Obama because he is black the same as not voting for McCain because he is white...I for one fail to see any real difference. As to affrimative action, well I am against it as it is presently instituted. By making the programs race-based or gender-based they are in fact discriminatory in and of themselves. The stated aim of these programs could be achieved far more equitably by making them means-based...its a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless, that most of those in need of help from affirmative action type programs are poor.By making the programs economic-means based the same people would be helped without the racial component being there. Its a lot harder to hate the guy who got the job because of a program to help economically disadvantaged people get ahead...who can really dispute that poor people need a helping hand.

DomKen -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 11:45:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: I've heard and seen the worst sorts of racist bile in reference to him. I hope you did your best to make those morons feel uncomfortable expressing those racist ideas in your presence, as do I. Big problem with that. I'm trying to keep the peace with my aunt who is in her 80's and very dear to me. Her only son, and his friends, are the ones I've heard making the racist statements. I've gotten up and left when it starts but with my aunt living with him I have little choice about being around it if I want to spend time with her before the inevitable.

Arpig -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 12:04:34 PM)
Confront them anyway ken, but do it cleverly,something like...You know that sort of talk is inappropriate in front of a lady.[:)]

DomImus -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 3:19:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Notice how those who oppose President Carter's statement try and make it 'all' instead of 'some?' I'm still waiting for any of them to address the point he actually made. "Overwhelming portion" I guess does equal "some" since it it is not "all". It's been addressed earlier - I did not see your response. Now that Carter and you and some of the others here have played the race card my question is this: Going forward how do you differentiate the opposition to Obama from racism from the opposition to Obama that is not racially motivated? Is there some race baiter's handbook and where can the rest of us obtain it so that we can all be on the same page?

CreativeDominant -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:25:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arrogance quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Clearly not all those who oppose Obama are racially motivated, but just as clearly some are. What matters really is how many, how much of the opposition can really be dismissed as racially based, and how much has to be addressed as legitimate. This is a question that we all have to ask oursleves honestly,and to accept the answer we find just as honestly. I suspect that if we do this then those who oppose Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer they get, and that those who support Obama will find themselves uncomfortable with the answer as well. Arpig, There is another side to this position that I would represent offsets the number of caucasian bigots; that is consideration of the black bigots. I discount the race card because there as just as many on both sides who see, and vote, race first. 95% of black voters went to the ballot for Obama and only 4% for McCain Obviously there are plenty of black bigots. But also think about where most blacks fall in the socio-economic ladder. A higher percentage of them than whites are in lower income families and area, most of which end up voting democrat. I'm not in anyway discrediting the fact that there are black racists. But that is a skewed statistic and I would imagine that in most presidential elections, the black vote has gone primarily to the democratic candidate. Of course it has...because the Democratic party is the party of promises. They promise a utopia that does not exist but can be made to exist by taxing those citizens often seen as the "opponent" of the poor among us...the wealthy. When you speak of increasing welfare, increasing Medicaid, increasing other social "fixes" that won't cost the beneficiaries anything and at the same time, promise to pay for it through the "enemy", tis easy to get the vote. I don't oppose those programs because I am a racist. I oppose them because too often they have been used as a way for people from all races to avoid lifting themselves up. Why work if someone else will pay you for doing nothing? Why worry about birth control when you can go to the clinic and get a free or nearly-free abortion? And on and on. I oppose Obama because of all that has already been noted by Merc elsewhere in this thread and I would oppose anyone who stands by those policies whether it be the (white) Kennedy, the (white) Carter, the (white AND female) Clinton. They are progressive policies...but not progressive in terms of betterment...but rather progress on the road to socialism. We may not be there but with these policies, we will get there.

Leiren -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:36:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Does anyone really doubt that race isn't behind a lot of the rage? Me. I seriously doubt that racism is behind the rage. But it doesn't surprise me that any white person who simply dislikes Obama's policies will be accused of racism. I expected that to be a standard 'defense' from Obama and other politicians from the day he was elected. I'm not a racist. I do, however, disagree with Obama's leftist politics. IMHO, Carter exacerbated the situation by screaming racism. Disagreeing with Obama's policies aren't racist. If he were lily white, I'd still disagree with the direction he's taking this country in.

BKSir -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:42:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leiren quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Does anyone really doubt that race isn't behind a lot of the rage? Me. I seriously doubt that racism is behind the rage. But it doesn't surprise me that any white person who simply dislikes Obama's policies will be accused of racism. I expected that to be a standard 'defense' from Obama and other politicians from the day he was elected. I'm not a racist. I do, however, disagree with Obama's leftist politics. IMHO, Carter exacerbated the situation by screaming racism. Disagreeing with Obama's policies aren't racist. If he were lily white, I'd still disagree with the direction he's taking this country in. It's not so much that it's because this particular person is being called a racist because he disagrees, more that he's being called a racist because he IS. Google the man, look at his track record and the things he's said and done. Carter has never been a "bandwagon" man, and has always called it like he sees it. A big part of the reason he wasn't Mr. Popular, but also a big reason why I've always respected and admired the man. If he sees a pile of dog shit, he says "Lookit that! Big ol dog shit on the lawn!", he doesn't dick around and say "Hm, looks like some compost got dropped by accident or something." And well, he saw a big ol dog shit on the lawn and called it like it is.

DomImus -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:55:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir It's not so much that it's because this particular person is being called a racist because he disagrees, more that he's being called a racist because he IS. Google the man, look at his track record and the things he's said and done. Carter has never been a "bandwagon" man, and has always called it like he sees it. A big part of the reason he wasn't Mr. Popular, but also a big reason why I've always respected and admired the man. If he sees a pile of dog shit, he says "Lookit that! Big ol dog shit on the lawn!", he doesn't dick around and say "Hm, looks like some compost got dropped by accident or something." And well, he saw a big ol dog shit on the lawn and called it like it is. If Carter had just called Joe Wilson a racist that would be one thing. When he makes generalizations about people because he feels they are making generalizations he looks like the oaf he is and has always been since before he left office.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:55:40 PM)
quote: Thanks to Obama, et al who support him, repeatedly calling anyone/everyone who either didn't vote for him or who opposes any of his policies a racist, I am now a bonafied racist. Obama et al apparantly never learned that one should be careful what one asks for because sometimes one gets exactly what one asks for. Congratulations Obama et al - you have racially divided America deeper than ever before. ORIGINAL: RacerJim That is wonderful logic, Jim. According to that logic, if someone called you a murderer you'd kill people. If someone called you a thief, you'd steal. If someone called you a sheep fucker we'd have to hide the livestock. Interesting ethical code you got there.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:57:16 PM)
Obama needs to call an end to liberals playing the race card. It was predictable that any criticism of a POTUS who, because of his inexperience and questionable relationships would have little Teflon, would be met with bs charges of racism. It was also predictable that they would roll out the worst POTUS in history to backstop the man destined to take over that title.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/16/2009 4:58:38 PM)
I find it interesting to note that nobody has yet mentioned that Obama has already let it be known through his press secretary that he does NOT agree with Carter's assessment. He said very clearly that he believes that those who oppose him do so because of differences in policy, not differences in race. Boy, that's playing the "race card" all right.

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