RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Sanity -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 11:51:06 AM)


They should have told him to put on his gray uniform and get in line? 

Maybe conservatives are more open to diverse ideas and opinions and aren't as antsy about being perfectly politically correct all the time. I don't think the witch doctor parody is any better or worse than if Bush had been portrayed as a mad scientist or as Dr. Frankenstein.

At some point we're going to have to let up a little bit and stop looking at every little thing through a prism of racism, and let people freely express whats on their minds without glaring at them so much. Obama as a witch doctor... that's funny to me, under the guise of Obamacare, though I could see how others could try to insist that its racist because they can't stand the thought of dissent.




GoDolphins -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 12:01:46 PM)

When I see all these comments made by those who think anyone who opposes Obama must be a racist, I can't help but be reminded by the days when Bush was president and anyone who opposed him was clearly un-American and unpatriotic. 




Arrogance -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 12:10:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


They should have told him to put on his gray uniform and get in line? 

Maybe conservatives are more open to diverse ideas and opinions and aren't as antsy about being perfectly politically correct all the time. I don't think the witch doctor parody is any better or worse than if Bush had been portrayed as a mad scientist or as Dr. Frankenstein.

At some point we're going to have to let up a little bit and stop looking at every little thing through a prism of racism, and let people freely express whats on their minds without glaring at them so much. Obama as a witch doctor... that's funny to me, under the guise of Obamacare, though I could see how others could try to insist that its racist because they can't stand the thought of dissent.



Or because it's blatantly racist?




DomKen -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 12:52:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


They should have told him to put on his gray uniform and get in line? 

Maybe conservatives are more open to diverse ideas and opinions and aren't as antsy about being perfectly politically correct all the time. I don't think the witch doctor parody is any better or worse than if Bush had been portrayed as a mad scientist or as Dr. Frankenstein.

At some point we're going to have to let up a little bit and stop looking at every little thing through a prism of racism, and let people freely express whats on their minds without glaring at them so much. Obama as a witch doctor... that's funny to me, under the guise of Obamacare, though I could see how others could try to insist that its racist because they can't stand the thought of dissent.


Bullshit.

It boils down to this. Everyone has the right to associate with whom they choose. The right wingers at these events could choose to not associate with the bigots but choose not to. Now there could be extenuating circumstances, I have already laid the reason I find myself in the company of bigots on occasion. But what are those extenuating circumstances? Why do the non racists at these events fail to isolate or eject the openly racist amongst them? Are they afraid? lazy? too clueless to understand what these signs and symbols mean? Or are they in agreement with the sentiments expressed?

Now I'm a big fan of judging people by the standards by which they judge others. So let's harken back 12 months to when right were the ones who went ape shit that Obama had been in the same room as Bill Ayers a couple of times. So by that standard the right simply cannot allow these racists to attend their rallies and march in their protests. They must forcefully expell the bigots and publicly denounce them or be considered bigots themselves.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 2:38:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I guess this needs to be said again, no one is saying all opposition to Obama is rooted in racism. However is there another explanation for stuff like the birther movement and pictures of the White House turned into a watermelon patch?

However why is the openly racist stuff being tolerated by the anti Obama movement? Why wasn't the guy with the witch doctor sign made to get rid of it by 50 or so of his fellow marchers? How blatant would it have to be for it to be unacceptable? If the guy was wearing a white robe or a brown shirt would that have gone too far?
Oh, I don't know DomKen...how many movies about assassinating President Bush while he was in office needed to be made and shown before someone on the left stopped tolerating it and spoke out against it?  We're still waiting for that...
How many lies about capitalism does Michael Moore get to put up on screen before someone on the left stops tolerating him and calls him on the lies in his "documentaries"?  Still waiting for that also...

What would you suggest be done, DomKen?  Throw them out of every meeting they show up at?  Or should we wait to see them put up a sign? 
Does this mean that the next time Bill Ayers...or anyone like him... is invited to speak at a college that you will advise your friends not to attend since he is someone who has openly advocated violent overthrow of the government and has vowed to continue in these ways if conservatives are elected again? 
Does this mean that any day now, we can stop hearing Nancy Pelosi referring to ANYONE ...such as myself...who protests Obama's policies as being people with no real protest against Obamacare but bought and paid for by the "wealthy" in the G.O.P. ?  As being racist for not believing in his policies?




DomKen -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 3:59:39 PM)

Liberals did denounce the movie about assassinating Bush.
http://web.archive.org/web/20061023003633/http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060916/UPDATE/609160394

Every single movie of Moore's has been the subject of extensive criticism from the left. Pick your favorite and google for yourself.

As to Ayers, the right are the ones that made associating with someone tantamount to being the same as that person. It's your meme now its time to own it. The phrase is hoist on your own petard. Maybe in teh future you won't be so quick to try and bring back McCarthyism.




Kirata -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 4:33:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As to Ayers, the right are the ones that made associating with someone tantamount to being the same as that person. It's your meme now its time to own it. The phrase is hoist on your own petard. Maybe in teh future you won't be so quick to try and bring back McCarthyism.

So you are knowingly engaging in the kind of behavior you decry... for pedagogical reasons?

[sm=dunno.gif]

K.








Sanity -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 4:43:55 PM)


[:D] I doubt he saw he was doing that as he was doing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As to Ayers, the right are the ones that made associating with someone tantamount to being the same as that person. It's your meme now its time to own it. The phrase is hoist on your own petard. Maybe in teh future you won't be so quick to try and bring back McCarthyism.

So you are knowingly engaging in precisely the kind of behavior you decry... for pedagogical reasons?

[sm=dunno.gif]

K.





DomKen -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 5:00:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As to Ayers, the right are the ones that made associating with someone tantamount to being the same as that person. It's your meme now its time to own it. The phrase is hoist on your own petard. Maybe in teh future you won't be so quick to try and bring back McCarthyism.

So you are knowingly engaging in the kind of behavior you decry... for pedagogical reasons?

[sm=dunno.gif]

K.


As I said above, I'm a firm believer in judging people by their own professed standards. Personally I don't think all the anti Obama protesters are bigots, said so several times in this thread already, but I am pointing out the right wings hypocrisy of attacking a someone's associations when it was convenient but now that it is inconvenient demanding to not be judged by that same standard.

Maybe in the future the right will remember what it was like and not trot this tired old crap out again.




Arpig -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 5:06:38 PM)

And what about the hypocrisy of doing something you claim to decry and saying it doesn't count simply because you were trying to teach "them" a lesson?




Mercnbeth -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 5:06:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Every single movie of Moore's has been the subject of extensive criticism from the left. Pick your favorite and google for yourself.

How about this one: MichaelMoore.com

Contrary to Richard Wolffe's assessment that "there were no Democrats as far as I can remember who were saying they stood with Michael Moore," Democrats, in fact, have stood side by side with me during all of this. Here's the Congressional Black Caucus supporting me on Capitol Hill in 2004. Here's Terry McAuliffe, the head of the Democratic National Committee, enthusiastically attending the premiere of "Fahrenheit 9/11" with two dozen senators and members of Congress. Here's a group of Democratic congresspeople endorsing my film Sicko in the chambers of the House Judiciary Committee in 2007. And here's President Jimmy Carter inviting me to sit with him in his box at the Democratic National Convention.




DomKen -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 6:01:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

And what about the hypocrisy of doing something you claim to decry and saying it doesn't count simply because you were trying to teach "them" a lesson?

I am so bored with pointing out that I'm not saying that these right wingers are all racists, I really don't think they are. But their own standard so enthusiastically applied last year brands them all as racists.

I want them to not like it. I want them to remember how unfair it actually is the next time Hannity, Beck or Oreilly starts trying to stir up shit against someone on this basis. I want to see just one of the right wingers who threw around those accusations last fall simply admit that guilt by association is always wrong. Or alternatively they can continue to give me chuckles while I spend a Friday evening trying to make a deadline.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 7:56:20 PM)

It occurs to me that Jimmy Carter and his supporters have done the greatest favor to the conservatives they've gotten in a long time. Seriously,  you guys should send them a thank you card. Because of these guys, none of whom are associated with this administration , you can continue to whine and moan and talk about how your rights of free speech are being taken away. You can continue to try to shift this to Obama although he's firmly said he does not agree. You can continue paint yourself as innocent victims of the mean old lefties who are the real reasons that you aren't speaking but rather shouting at the tops of your lungs. Hell...for you guys, it's christmas in July.

Forget the fact that the same free speech that protects your right to send pictures of the white house as a watermellon patch (not racist, just a comment that Obama likes watermellon, right? Lots of white people like watermellon) or as an african witch doctor (Not a racist image. it's just a comment that he doesn't know much about medicine) or comments saying that Obama controls the congressional black caucus so that they dont' make a move without him (not racist. It's not that they're all black, it's that they're all liberal) protects the right of people to say that these things are racists. Forget the fact that so far no one has even MENTIONED government action to stop these things. Forget that there is a huge difference between speaking out in opposition is a very different thing than stopping someone from saying them. And most of all forget that the president has spoken out in your defense.

Just keep going with the refrain "the evil, freedom hating left is taking away our rights and being mean to us". Now you can add to your cries, "All of THEM call all of US racists" and keep repeating it in the hopes that it will come to be believed.

Like I said, Carter gave you guys and early Christmas gift. I'm sure you'll continue to make the most of it.





HatesParisHilton -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/18/2009 11:22:59 PM)

"This is the rev'rin All Shaptn'!

I's laughin' my fattttt azzzz offff at you MacNeil/Leher and Limbaugh sukin' motherfuckers!

Nice ta see 'divide and con-quah' works as well in Marin County and Bel Ayah as it does in COMPTON!

Thanks to ya'll fo' turnin' th' tables, an' GUH NIGHHHHHT!"




FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 5:54:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoDolphins
When I see all these comments made by those who think anyone who opposes Obama must be a racist
Where did you see these comments that anyone who opposes Obama must be racist?    

quote:

Mercnbeth
Irrelevant to the debate and opinionated; is there a point you're trying to make? The insecurity of anyone hearing the argument is their problem, and you should consider that disagreement is not an indication of hatred; at least from me.


quote:

Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations. M


No not being a racist, I do NOT consider it as Mr. Carter does. His prejudice requires consideration of a racist agenda.
Please don't try and sell me uninformed BS for honest debate.    And please stop protesting, or you'll start to look guilty.

When I began this thread I wasn't thinking about you, and yes I am opinionated, but only on those things I have clear information experience.   
I don't consider Jimmy Carter prejudiced on this matter, anymore than I consider you among the ignorant folks looking to get their country back from the black president...   But as someone else pointed out, only you can know what's in your heart and mind.    

quote:

SpinnerofTales
Forget the fact that the same free speech that protects your right to send pictures of the white house as a watermellon patch (not racist, just a comment that Obama likes watermellon, right? Lots of white people like watermellon) or as an african witch doctor (Not a racist image. it's just a comment that he doesn't know much about medicine) or comments saying that Obama controls the congressional black caucus so that they dont' make a move without him (not racist. It's not that they're all black, it's that they're all liberal) protects the right of people to say that these things are racists. Forget the fact that so far no one has even MENTIONED government action to stop these things. Forget that there is a huge difference between speaking out in opposition is a very different thing than stopping someone from saying them. And most of all forget that the president has spoken out in your defense.

Just keep going with the refrain "the evil, freedom hating left is taking away our rights and being mean to us". Now you can add to your cries, "All of THEM call all of US racists" and keep repeating it in the hopes that it will come to be believed
Spinner, you've got to stop pointing out the obvious.   Nobody's listening here, just shouting.     I was hoping people on the boards could speak honestly, and not so defensively on this subject, given the country did come together and elect this president.  [sm=sigh.gif]  M




Mercnbeth -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 7:28:36 AM)

The debate among people was progressing and each side was giving their perspective. Carter diverted the discussion, not with pointing out the some, on BOTH sides are motivated by racism; but to say the "overwhelming majority" taking the other side from Obama were. Polarizing people and causing reassessment on both sides. If no version of health care passes, Carter's represented dying generation opinion, outburst will be listed as one of the causes.

To his credit the President threw him under the bus along with the other racists who he previously took into his inner circle, or represent support of him within the Democratic Party.

quote:

Please don't try and sell me uninformed BS for honest debate. And please stop protesting, or you'll start to look guilty.
Please stop stating he obvious? Where's your counter argument in lieu of accusation? My opinion is informed by experience. Prejudice people are sometimes so indoctrinated in self loathing that they don't see the folly of their condescending opinion of a group of people from a different background or race as bigotry. They give a rationalized reason as an excuse.

Personally, I treat every person for themselves and let their positions define them, not their race, gender, age, or sexual preference. I only see an argued debate position, and the person providing it. I'll stipulated that Carter doesn't even realize he is personifying bigotry; that is the generation he represents, when racism WAS rampant and regulations such as AA/eeo were necessary to implement as the social barriers and eradication of ignorance progressed. Now those very well intended programs only serve to perpetuate what they were meant to make obsolete.

Sorry, I'll protest ignorance and agenda based use of racism every time it exhibits itself; whether from Jimmy Carter or you.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 7:58:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Liberals did denounce the movie about assassinating Bush.
http://web.archive.org/web/20061023003633/http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060916/UPDATE/609160394

Every single movie of Moore's has been the subject of extensive criticism from the left. Pick your favorite and google for yourself.

As to Ayers, the right are the ones that made associating with someone tantamount to being the same as that person. It's your meme now its time to own it. The phrase is hoist on your own petard. Maybe in teh future you won't be so quick to try and bring back McCarthyism.

All who are on the right did that?  Or some?  As for making someone the same as the person they are associating with, you proved my point and your own by your implication that all those on the right must be the same as those on the right who hold racist beliefs.  There is no shortage of folks on the right, admittedly, nor on the left (marsbonfire comes to mind) who do a great job of believing that we all think the same.  Tisn't true.




xBullx -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 8:01:42 AM)

-fast reply-

Could somebody just shut that idiot Carter up already. He's the reason I'm not a Dem... That incompetent boob has yet to demonstrate an ounce of worthy merit; in anything.

Prejudice is present in all things and in all ways, and by all of us. The people that feel the need to defend their lack thereof or those claiming superiority of example are generally our most strident offenders. Is race a big issue for Obama's tenure? You damn right it is. I'm sorry to say it, but it is. If Hillary made the climb, would not sexism have been the issue to cloud the subject matter? You darn tootin'.

Listen folks, Jackie Robinson was one of the best ever! There is no way you could dispute his right to belong. Colin Powell was brilliant and his leadership was/is remarkable. Count Basie was a musical genius and his music would win Grammy's yet today. Arthur Ashe was not only a great tennis champion, but most likely one of the most gracious men to ever live.

When Obama was elected as our president, I made one simple comment. “ I hope he can live up to the standards set by Jackie (Robinson).” Anyone who is a first has to do it better and with more class than anyone else has ever done it before. We can taut that this is unfair and that each man should be measured by his own merits; but the facts are in evidence and it's never been that simple. It has always been the case that game breakers or trend setters must be better than the rest or they will fail in comparison and be judge more harshly. If the inovator falls short and leaves room for the base of bigotry to proclaim providence in their prognostications, it will set achievement back to benchmarks established even before his time.

Did anyone really think that race would play no role in Obama’s presidency? Hell it was one of the dynamics that got him elected. And that being said he is also smart enough to know he personally can’t cry foul now.

Are some people making Obama’s reign harder and are some standards seemingly higher for him? Most likely. To the contrary though there are also those out there that have lowered the standards and cried foul, and those people offend me much more than those that are exactly what we expected them to be, bigots and instigators.

Personally I feel Tony Dungy would have made the best choice for the first American President of color, He is a man, no he is a leader I can believe in. But then I’m a mega football nut and am bias that way, I only see team colors effecting my prejudices where he is concerned.

Important note:

We want the very best our nation has to offer filling this office. I’m not sure if we have met this need in well over a hundred years or so.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 8:09:44 AM)

quote:

Personally, I treat every person for themselves and let their positions define them, not their race, gender, age, or sexual preference. I only see an argued debate position, and the person providing it. I'll stipulated that Carter doesn't even realize he is personifying bigotry; that is the generation he represents, when racism WAS rampant and regulations such as AA/eeo were necessary to implement as the social barriers and eradication of ignorance progressed. Now those very well intended programs only serve to perpetuate what they were meant to make obsolete.
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



Merc, first let me say that I do not now nor have I ever considered you a racist. We have disagreed strongly on issues up and down the spectrum of debate, but I have never seen a word that would give me even a suspicion that you are motivated by racial concerns.

That said, I think you are very off base in your assertion that rampant racism is a think of the past. There have been gains made, slowly and usually after much struggle. But to say "mission accomplished" at this point is very premature. Take for example, the following experiment detailed in HR magazine (hardly a bastion of political agenda).
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146/

To summarize, the experiment involved sending out 5,000 resumes for jobs. To quote the article: "Most job openings for which the researchers sent resumes were administrative, sales, clerical and managerial positions. Bertrand and Mullainathan randomly assigned the applicants names common to either black men, black women, white men or white women and were careful not to send identical resumes to the same employer." The result? Again to quote the article, "The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names. There were no significant differences between the rates at which men and women were contacted."

This is just one example. Any examination of data on the subject will reveal many other disparities between the races in economic opportunity, educational opportunity, treatment by law enforcement (and no, I am not talking about nonsense like the famous Harvard professor matter) and general perception. To claim that these things don't exist just makes it harder to fix these matters. The first step in solving a problem is always accepting that a problem exists.

Racism is alive and well in this country. Is is as bad as it was half a century ago? No. Is it by any means a settled issue, again no. To suggest that it isn't a valid concern is as incorrect as asserting that "all whites practice racisimt". One error does not lessen the other.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... (9/19/2009 1:21:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Personally, I treat every person for themselves and let their positions define them, not their race, gender, age, or sexual preference. I only see an argued debate position, and the person providing it. I'll stipulated that Carter doesn't even realize he is personifying bigotry; that is the generation he represents, when racism WAS rampant and regulations such as AA/eeo were necessary to implement as the social barriers and eradication of ignorance progressed. Now those very well intended programs only serve to perpetuate what they were meant to make obsolete.
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



Merc, first let me say that I do not now nor have I ever considered you a racist. We have disagreed strongly on issues up and down the spectrum of debate, but I have never seen a word that would give me even a suspicion that you are motivated by racial concerns.

That said, I think you are very off base in your assertion that rampant racism is a think of the past. There have been gains made, slowly and usually after much struggle. But to say "mission accomplished" at this point is very premature. Take for example, the following experiment detailed in HR magazine (hardly a bastion of political agenda).
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146/

To summarize, the experiment involved sending out 5,000 resumes for jobs. To quote the article: "Most job openings for which the researchers sent resumes were administrative, sales, clerical and managerial positions. Bertrand and Mullainathan randomly assigned the applicants names common to either black men, black women, white men or white women and were careful not to send identical resumes to the same employer." The result? Again to quote the article, "The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names. There were no significant differences between the rates at which men and women were contacted."

This is just one example. Any examination of data on the subject will reveal many other disparities between the races in economic opportunity, educational opportunity, treatment by law enforcement (and no, I am not talking about nonsense like the famous Harvard professor matter) and general perception. To claim that these things don't exist just makes it harder to fix these matters. The first step in solving a problem is always accepting that a problem exists.

Racism is alive and well in this country. Is is as bad as it was half a century ago? No. Is it by any means a settled issue, again no. To suggest that it isn't a valid concern is as incorrect as asserting that "all whites practice racisimt". One error does not lessen the other.


I'm no longer sure that the issue is "racism" but instead "culture".

Firm




Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.1875