RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right

RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 9:19:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have already made the point that both sides of the political arena have had to deal with the shouts of racism over and over again, No one party has a lock on it. Both parties have had it said about them. Digging something up thats over a half of a century old, from a time that was so very different than now, and making that a comparison isnt going to work though. In theory, we seem to agree, so I'm not sure why you wish to be snarky and dismissive. However, I would ask you a question. How long "in the past" should some racially incorrect actions be, before they are "no longer pertinent to the discussion"? Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 9:22:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Editing the substance of your remarks, after posting it, without a disclaimer borders on the unethical. I'm sure you didn't mean to do so, so just consider this a reminder of how others might see this. As to the subject of your now extended post ... oh golly gee... didnt realize you were the policy maker and the police of board posts around here. you may, of course, ignore any posts you feel does not live up to your lofty standards. i asked a question... you were too busy replying with snarky comments to Spinner so i edited.. as IS noted when you edit a post. im sure you will live through the experience, as has many others before you, and many will after you. you post as you wish, and so will i. Post away. [8\|] Firm PS. My bedtime. I'll continue with those interested tomorrow, or when I find some more time. Edited to add the PS. [:D]

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 9:28:52 PM)
quote: How about recent problem with accusations of rape from a black woman and a college soccer team [ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Firm..are you citing the case of the false report of rape at Hofstra University as a demonstration of black vs. white racism? If not, please tell me what you are speaking of. If you are discussing this case, as a case of black racism against whites, then I do have to mention that all the men by this black woman accused were black. If you can turn that into racism of any kind, you deserve a laurel and hearty handshake.

rulemylife -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 9:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gift4mistress The fact that many of you liberals ignored my last post shows how you on the left are in a deep state of denial. You don't want to admit that there is racism on both sides, and most of you rebut that the republican party has more of a history fighting racism than the democrats have. [:'(] No, it was ignored because you have a tragically deficient knowledge of history, which I was willing to ignore until you made this second post. The party of Lincoln bears resemblance to the current Republican Party in name only.

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 9:37:03 PM)
Not to be overly "aspergic" here, but how many African Americans (or as my ex-stepfather preferred, "Black Americans") have posted on this thread? Versus NON African based people? what's the ratio thus far, please?

gift4mistress -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/21/2009 10:21:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: gift4mistress The fact that many of you liberals ignored my last post shows how you on the left are in a deep state of denial. You don't want to admit that there is racism on both sides, and most of you rebut that the republican party has more of a history fighting racism than the democrats have. [:'(] No, it was ignored because you have a tragically deficient knowledge of history, which I was willing to ignore until you made this second post. The party of Lincoln bears resemblance to the current Republican Party in name only. Actually, the republican party has always been associated on the right. For instance, they've always had strong belief in capitalism and free trade since the start of the party. One of the basic foundation's of their economic policy was to stay out of the way of small business. Also, there are more similarities to the Republican party of than and now. For instance, it has been known as the GOP since the 1860s. Plus, they always believed in strong national defense. Anyways, I believe that I have never said that the republican party of today is an exact replica of President Lincoln's Republican party. But rather, a party that has always been positioned on the right. [8D]

Politesub53 -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 12:34:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton Not to be overly "aspergic" here, but how many African Americans (or as my ex-stepfather preferred, "Black Americans") have posted on this thread? Versus NON African based people? what's the ratio thus far, please? Whats your point ? Surely you are not suggesting white people cant spot or discuss racism ?

DomKen -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 12:57:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gift4mistress quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: gift4mistress The fact that many of you liberals ignored my last post shows how you on the left are in a deep state of denial. You don't want to admit that there is racism on both sides, and most of you rebut that the republican party has more of a history fighting racism than the democrats have. [:'(] No, it was ignored because you have a tragically deficient knowledge of history, which I was willing to ignore until you made this second post. The party of Lincoln bears resemblance to the current Republican Party in name only. Actually, the republican party has always been associated on the right. For instance, they've always had strong belief in capitalism and free trade since the start of the party. One of the basic foundation's of their economic policy was to stay out of the way of small business. Actually that is completely untrue. The Republican party of Lincoln was one of two different groups. Lincoln led the progressive abolitionist arm of the party while the radicals in the Senate were pro business. The two sides didn't get along and the radicals went after Johnson, Lincoln's VP, in an attempt to make the Senate, an at the time not popularly elected body, the effective rulers of the nation. Teddy Roosevelt was really the last gasp of progressives in the GOP. He was instrumental in breaking the trusts and other early regulatory efforts.

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 3:02:03 AM)
*"Whats your point ? Surely you are not suggesting white people cant spot or discuss racism ? "* as my nurse is at this moment watching "Hunger" (The Maze story in Ireland), no, I am not suggesting that. I am suggesting, however, that if bitching rights about racism were shares in a company, no protestant based middle-classed whitefolk would EVER hold controlling shares in such a metaphorical company. Whereas ANY African based person or Latino in CA or Creole in Louisiana WOULD. Oh, and before anyone asks? Far as I'm concerned, in a month or so, something will happen where we have a thread like this on sexism, and then I WILL say (and get roasted for saying) that unless you or I magically get a uterus and can die in childbirth? we never get to say SHIT about abortion or birth control. Just thought I'd head that one off at the pass EARLY.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:24:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: How about recent problem with accusations of rape from a black woman and a college soccer team [ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Firm..are you citing the case of the false report of rape at Hofstra University as a demonstration of black vs. white racism? If not, please tell me what you are speaking of. If you are discussing this case, as a case of black racism against whites, then I do have to mention that all the men by this black woman accused were black. If you can turn that into racism of any kind, you deserve a laurel and hearty handshake. Sorry, Spinner. It was late. Duke Lacrosse. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:29:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton *"Whats your point ? Surely you are not suggesting white people cant spot or discuss racism ? "* as my nurse is at this moment watching "Hunger" (The Maze story in Ireland), no, I am not suggesting that. I am suggesting, however, that if bitching rights about racism were shares in a company, no protestant based middle-classed whitefolk would EVER hold controlling shares in such a metaphorical company. Whereas ANY African based person or Latino in CA or Creole in Louisiana WOULD. Oh, and before anyone asks? Far as I'm concerned, in a month or so, something will happen where we have a thread like this on sexism, and then I WILL say (and get roasted for saying) that unless you or I magically get a uterus and can die in childbirth? we never get to say SHIT about abortion or birth control. Just thought I'd head that one off at the pass EARLY. Let's see .... I'm a man. I was conceived of with the help of both a woman and a man. I spent the first 9 months of my existence in a uterus. I've helped place children in the uterus of a woman. I'm legally responsible for the care and raising of children who have been through a woman's uterus. I think I'm morally qualified to discuss birth control and abortion, thank you very much. Firm

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:46:45 AM)
sure, you can talk and discuss and opine all you like. and any woman can abort anything inside her or take any pill or demand you wear a hood while you're talking away, and she can ignore every single word you say on the subject, if she (wait for the magic word) "chooses". and whatever you say will have value. at most 2% of the value of any woman, but value.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:51:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton sure, you can talk and discuss and opine all you like. and any woman can abort anything inside her or take any pill or demand you wear a hood while you're talking away, and she can ignore every single word you say on the subject, if she (wait for the magic word) "chooses". and whatever you say will have value. at most 2% of the value of any woman, but value. So you are retracting your statement: unless you or I magically get a uterus ... we never get to say SHIT about abortion or birth control. ? Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:52:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have already made the point that both sides of the political arena have had to deal with the shouts of racism over and over again, No one party has a lock on it. Both parties have had it said about them. Digging something up thats over a half of a century old, from a time that was so very different than now, and making that a comparison isnt going to work though. In theory, we seem to agree, so I'm not sure why you wish to be snarky and dismissive. However, I would ask you a question. How long "in the past" should some racially incorrect actions be, before they are "no longer pertinent to the discussion"? Firm 50 years ago the whole country was caught up in racial tensions. Its hardly fair to point a finger at one person. Many communities didnt want desegregation, even among black people. If this had been 10, 20, 30 years ago, i would have been booing along side you.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:54:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have already made the point that both sides of the political arena have had to deal with the shouts of racism over and over again, No one party has a lock on it. Both parties have had it said about them. Digging something up thats over a half of a century old, from a time that was so very different than now, and making that a comparison isnt going to work though. In theory, we seem to agree, so I'm not sure why you wish to be snarky and dismissive. However, I would ask you a question. How long "in the past" should some racially incorrect actions be, before they are "no longer pertinent to the discussion"? Firm 50 years ago the whole country was caught up in racial tensions. Its hardly fair to point a finger at one person. Many communities didnt want desegregation, even among black people. If this had been 10, 20, 30 years ago, i would have been booing along side you. So anything within the last 30 years is "in play"? Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:55:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton I am suggesting, however, that if bitching rights about racism were shares in a company, no protestant based middle-classed whitefolk would EVER hold controlling shares in such a metaphorical company. Whereas ANY African based person or Latino in CA or Creole in Louisiana WOULD. Im native american... i got all the right to bitch as much as i want too.

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:56:49 AM)
So you are retracting your statement: unless you or I magically get a uterus ... we never get to say SHIT about abortion or birth control. ? No, because that statement was in direct reply to the other gentlemen, not to you.

tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 5:58:04 AM)
Firm, take it on a case by case scenario, k? Why is it you cannot see anything but a party platform?

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 7:40:01 AM)
Wow HatesParisHilton, I ususally skip reading you, because you come accross as slightly uncouth, but will answer this one, since you ask... The reason most black people skip these threads is because everyone likes to theoretically discuss the fact that racism has been outlawed, outside of the human experience. None of these discussions can be personal, or else the debate is not progressing in the proper fashion. It's wonderful to be able to discuss something from a theoretical level, without the inconvenience of human feelings and consequences of things long thought to be only a part of history. I'd love to have remained innocent about racism. Alas, that has not been possible since I was stopped and accused of running a stop sign, because saying "you're driving too nice a car for a niggah, would have been inappropriate or illegal." Black folks have to disavow racism, because it's called bitching about being a victim, and no one wants to be one. Having said that, I love to read those posters, who seem exceptionally well informed about matters beyond their backyards, who willfully step outside of their comfort zones, to learn and teach about the the humanity of all people, regardless of ethnic mix, without ignoring current facts and circumstances as they are. M

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/22/2009 8:18:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Firm, take it on a case by case scenario, k? Why is it you cannot see anything but a party platform? Tazzy, I don't see it a simply a party platform issue. All of my post in this thread have been attempting to make that very point. I agree that it is best to take it on a "case by case" scenario. However, some seem to think that any case involving a Republican (or conservative) is always "in play", while anything involving a Democrat (or "progressive") is always "out of play". Firm

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