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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/26/2009 2:24:54 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
To me, being "special" is something that you know when you see it. Put a thousand people together in a crowd, and you can pick out the "special" ones in a second or two.


Sadly, choose a thousand different people to pick out those two "special" people, especially if you bring them from a variety of different backgrounds and cultures, and very few of them will pick out the same two people as "special".  Your perceptions of "specialness" are not universal or based on some real integral or even visible quality.  I guarantee you that if you lined up every woman that you and your cohorts are clawing each other's eyes out to possess, that I would not find a single one that I would even want to have a cup of coffee with, much less own, or be.  Most of the women you find physically attractive are such that I wouldn't even want to stick a gag in their mouths and have an afternoon of meaningless sex with them, without having to listen to their vapid chatter.  You've vividly described the women you find attractive before; they are the exact same women that I usually find pitiful at best and outright repulsive and off-putting at worst.

quote:

Studies have shown that certain toddlers tend to be more liked, respected, and sought out by other toddlers - even before age 2. These same toddlers tend to be the children at age 6 that are the most popular, the most successful.


The most successful at what?  How is "success" defined at an age like 2 or 6, when people do not perform any economic or social function, have sex, pass exams, compete in sports, or have any other genuinely objective measure of their worth?  People who perform "studies" like this sound as if they are seriously suspect as scientists.

quote:

These children tend to be the same young adults that tend to have the best success rates in the real world. Sure, there are exceptions, but the bell curve is reasonably tight.


Again--success at what?  Most of the young adults who possess the two qualities that seem to matter to you--physical attractiveness by the narrow standards of Western culture and the social opportunities that go with it--were not necessarily the people who were doing best in the classroom or on standardized tests, who won the most scholarships, had the highest-paying or most prestigious careers later in life, or the largest and healthiest families, the most varied and interesting sex lives, traveled the furthest, created the most/best art, were bravest and most victorious in military exploits or business dealings, etc..  The one realm where they seem to have really excelled was in having high school-to college (and sometimes professional) careers as athletes (for boys) and as body-workers (models, dancers, sex workers) for the girls.  In every other respect they were lamentably average or even sub-par.

In short, it seems to me that this version of "success" you are invoking is very nebulous and pretty meaningless in any kind of larger scheme. 

As for the qualities you mention that really are integral to the soul and probably based on interior resources--like confidence, or a good immune system and mental/emotional stability--sometimes the Cute Kids had these qualities and sometimes they are miserably lacking in them.  This was especially true of the females, who had a much higher percentage chance to raped and molested as children based on their Cute Factor.

The one commonality that kids who have that golden aura of confidence and mental health around them--Cute or Not-- is probably simply that they weren't seriously abused or neglected as children.  Came from stable families and weren't mistreated within their own families first, and then in their social environment at school.

It's sad that such people appear so "special", but they do--if only because the majority of people in our society are so lamentably battered.

As for the rest of this stuff--about how "special" people win at games of chance without cheating and other pseudo-mystical "magical thinking" mumbo-jumbo--I am sorry, but your perception of people you consider your betters appears to be highly coloured by fantasy and to have no testable relationship to reality that I can see.  In my own experience, the difference between successful people and non-successful people has never been innate talent or luck--often people who wind up being failures are amply supplied with both--nor any other factor outside of their own control.  There is something special about people who are "winners" in life, I agree; the one quality that they all seem to share is PERSISTANCE, and this is usually fueled by FAITH.

It's not that "special" people are luckier than everyone else; it's that they make the most of their luck and they keep going even when luck fails them.  It's not that they're never interrupted when they speak; it's that when people do interrupt them, they raise their voices and speak again.  It's not that they don't get talked down to; it's that they don't hunch over to become a person who deserves to be talked down to.  It's not that they always get what they want; it's that they learn to love what they have and USE what they have, rather than stupidly and pointlessly churning their guts over what is out of reach.  It's not that no one ever questions their confidence or thinks ill of them; it's that they never choose to agree with people who do.

It would be nice to believe that "special" people live blessed or "special" lives, but that's not the case.  They have just as many bad breaks, flaws and opportunities to fail as anyone else.  They just don't choose to be losers.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 9/26/2009 2:28:28 PM >


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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/26/2009 6:32:09 PM   
sublace


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You have to be special OP - why else would so many fantastic people bother to write and inspire you ? the Wow factor here is impressive!

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/27/2009 6:35:10 PM   
oceanwyndsLoves


Posts: 44
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves.


But what makes someone worthy of breaking the victim mentality? I mean, just because I stand up and say "I won't be a victim anymore!", doesn't mean I'm going to stop being victimized, and doesn't mean I'm not going to be laughed at for the pathetic, self-deluded little shit that I am.

It seems like, in American culture at least, we believe that the purpose of adversity is to seperate the "men from the boys". It's sink or swim, you know - throw trauma at someone, and if they manage to rise above it, they're special.

So what do you do if you find out you couldn't rise above it?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth




Please excuse me, since I haven't read all the pages on this post, but this caught me, and needed to respond. If someone else has made a similair statement then perhaps repeating it will still be a good idea.

To feel and believe one is a victim is part of every person's journey in life. It is when a person decides that what they are receiving from being a victim is not worth it anymore, will they stop being a victim. It is at this point where they will give up the attention seeking of their problems, and stop the insanity. This is hard work, and doesn't change over night. It is baby steps in retraining yourself to stop feeding from the drama that is around a victim. Special people or not special people all have been victims, no one is excluded. Only special person in my book is the one that says enough. I own up to dragging this drama on and on, and will stop it now. I will not feed myself the woo-is-me attitude any more. I will honor who i am and all i am starting now. One step at a time with acceptance of all you are and all you can be, minus comparing yourself with others.

Blessings
oceanwynds

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/27/2009 6:49:00 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
The survivor of abuse knows they are so much more then a victim and will not permit the abuse to take over. Breaking out of the "victim" mentality can be frightening, painful, etc., but they are worth the effort and they know it. The tiny steps they take to get themselves out of that role are a confidence builder in and of themselves.


But what makes someone worthy of breaking the victim mentality? I mean, just because I stand up and say "I won't be a victim anymore!", doesn't mean I'm going to stop being victimized, and doesn't mean I'm not going to be laughed at for the pathetic, self-deluded little shit that I am.

It seems like, in American culture at least, we believe that the purpose of adversity is to seperate the "men from the boys". It's sink or swim, you know - throw trauma at someone, and if they manage to rise above it, they're special.

So what do you do if you find out you couldn't rise above it?






You find a good therapist who can give you the tools you need to find your way to the other side.
Very often the only way out is through
You and s/he become a team in your recovery.
You come to believe you are worth it; come to believe you can make a contribution to the world and at some point after a lot of hard work, you stop viewing yourself through shit colored glasses.



edit to fix quote thingie

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 9/27/2009 6:50:19 PM >


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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/27/2009 7:00:35 PM   
geomease


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Hmmm special huh?  Well I don't particularly feel very special myself, unique maybe, but special is not the word I'd use.  But I am satisfied with myself.  While I have my demons (lord knows we all do) I try my best to overcome them and t better myself.  And I'd like to think I am getting, a little, better everyday.

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/27/2009 7:06:14 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

But what makes someone worthy of breaking the victim mentality? I mean, just because I stand up and say "I won't be a victim anymore!", doesn't mean I'm going to stop being victimized, and doesn't mean I'm not going to be laughed at for the pathetic, self-deluded little shit that I am.


Actually, it -does-. We were -born- worthy of not being victims. Victimization is a form of escapism -- it means that, in some measure, we've made a conscious choice to let someone else control how we feel, act, and think -- about ourselves and our world. If you accept that you are responsible for your life and that you can only be victimized when you allow that to happen, you will start being able to differentiate between situations that are out of your control (example: a hurricane) but where you can make choices that will give you the best possible outcome despite the circumstances, and situations where you can control the outcome from the get-go by the way you inter-relate (example: healthy vs. abusive relationships in work/personal life).

Letting go of the "victim mentality" doesn't mean that unpleasant, uncomfortable, or difficult things are never going to happen to you again. What it means is that you have reached a point where, even when those kinds of things -do- happen, you hold on to your right to come through these things a stronger, healthier, more -whole- person, and you retain the knowledge that your life and how you deal with life is in your hands. It means that, if you are genuinely damaged by another person, you have no problem asking for recompense for the damage. It also means that when circumstance hands you a rough draw, you don't go looking for someone to -blame-... instead, you look at what the best possible outcome of the situation is, for you, and then strive for that outcome. You also embrace the fact that sometimes, the reason we end up in a mess is because we've made a bad choice -- accept that we made that choice (or abdicated the decision process and were -left- with a bad choice), and we move on.

One of the most important aspects of letting go of our victimization is living in the -present-. The more time you spend dwelling on all the crappy things that have happened in the past, the less energy you have to focus on what choices will move you forward today -- so my suggestion is to turn your head to the road before your feet, let go of the past, and start walking towards your future.

Dame Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 2:59:16 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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I've realized that I'm still not communicating my concepts clearly - for which I apologize again. Upon further reflection, I think the word "victim" is an error, and took the conversation perhaps in the wrong direction. I'm not a "victim"; I'm just a statistic - just like 98% of you. There's a profound difference; 'victimhood' implies some inherent specialness that the universe singles you out for.

Look at it this way:

Who was this man? Did he have a dog as a child? Did he love that dog? How did his parents raise him? Who did he love? What did he want to do with himself, before Life happened and all his ambitions bled out of him onto the dust?

It's estimated that one hundred billion people have strut and fret their hour upon the stage; how many of them were noteworthy in their own lifetime, let alone to the tides of history?

"All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 3:13:48 AM   
ranja


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ah you still here... ready to admit you like being a snowflake yet?

you quote the dieing robot in blade runner... He had a zest for life... he wanted more of it... he did not waste it whining about things... he fought to live longer... to enjoy more

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 3:27:55 AM   
angelslave77


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I am special to a handful of people, My partner, my children, my family and a few close friends, I may or may not be special to others and quite frankly I dont let it bother me because they are of very little consequence to me.

My daughter is one of those 1% of special people you mentioned, she is smart, beautiful, amazingly creativly talented (although she fails in tall catagory) she has a mass following of kids at school, they want to cary her stuff, wanting to hang out with her. They fight amoung themselves for her attention and she has always been this way, three different school has produced the same result and it is getting more obvious as she gets older. But at home she is just a kid, she bosses her brothers around and drives me nuts, and sure she is special to me and I would lay down my life for her but it is no different to how I feel about her siblings.

So while I get what your saying , I think you are putting these special people out of reach because of an imaginary pedestal, quite often they are some of the most genuine approachable people. What you seem to lack is self esteem, and self respect and if you cant respect yourself how can you ever expect to attract anyone "special" or otherwise.
Unless you are an evil, vile soul-less monster, you deserve to be loved and respected but you have to get over guilt tripping yourself. Some people wont eat today but thats not your fault, you can help if you chose to but not eating because they cant is just mental it helps no  one. Same with all your other little mental arguments, bad shit happens every minute of everyday and it sucks, it sucks worse when it happens to you, but in the mean time you just gotta enjoy the time you do have.

I do hope you find your way to happiness


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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 7:42:52 AM   
monaslave


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Nooo why do you base success on superficial stuff like; looks, money, things, bodies, friends. etc etc etc?
Have you ever asked yourself, why you do that?
And what do you gain by doing it?

Have you ever asked yourself,what true success is?

Do you think you have to "be successfull" in order to be special?
And why?

Isnt success,real success, to be content with yourself,and your own life?

When you are laying on your death bed, will the money, the looks, the things, etc- matter ?
what will matter- then?

Do you know,that you are a spirit?
a creation straight from the universal source?
DO you know that you are special just because of it?
DO you know,that you chose your own life?
your own thoughts?
that its about your soul,not the outer?
that you can create all the outer as well inner,if you like?
that all the outer stuff is meaningless?
you try to indulge in all the outer stuff,and you find out yourself it IS meaningless.
if youre looking for a way to find true happiness try spirituality.
all else going to fail.

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 8:05:25 AM   
angelikaJ


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Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

I've realized that I'm still not communicating my concepts clearly - for which I apologize again. Upon further reflection, I think the word "victim" is an error, and took the conversation perhaps in the wrong direction. I'm not a "victim"; I'm just a statistic - just like 98% of you. There's a profound difference; 'victimhood' implies some inherent specialness that the universe singles you out for.

Look at it this way:

Who was this man? Did he have a dog as a child? Did he love that dog? How did his parents raise him? Who did he love? What did he want to do with himself, before Life happened and all his ambitions bled out of him onto the dust?

It's estimated that one hundred billion people have strut and fret their hour upon the stage; how many of them were noteworthy in their own lifetime, let alone to the tides of history?

"All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."


The fact that you see the word "victim" as a marker of special, says a lot, but it doesn't change the fact that you seem to refuse to change your circumstances.
You have aknowledged yourself to be clinically depressed and have told us you are literally starving to death.

Help is available.
Get it, please.

_____________________________

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 8:06:14 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

I've realized that I'm still not communicating my concepts clearly - for which I apologize again. Upon further reflection, I think the word "victim" is an error, and took the conversation perhaps in the wrong direction. I'm not a "victim"; I'm just a statistic - just like 98% of you. There's a profound difference; 'victimhood' implies some inherent specialness that the universe singles you out for.

Look at it this way:

Who was this man? Did he have a dog as a child? Did he love that dog? How did his parents raise him? Who did he love? What did he want to do with himself, before Life happened and all his ambitions bled out of him onto the dust?

It's estimated that one hundred billion people have strut and fret their hour upon the stage; how many of them were noteworthy in their own lifetime, let alone to the tides of history?

"All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."


... and my question to you, Ialdabaoth, is "why does it matter what the world thinks of me?"

I guess part of it is that I am internally motivated, but even if you are -externally- motivated, there are a BILLION+ opportunities, every single day, to stand out in just ONE person's mind. Maybe, instead of worrying about when you will be noteworthy to the world or why you're NOT noteworthy to the world, you might try expending your energy on something outside of worrying about -yourself-... in doing that, you may find that you become notable to one person at a time whom you've helped, and you will find yourself finding some satisfaction with your existence.

If your life is mediocre, then it is because you choose mediocrity. My life has -never- been mediocre, and I doubt that I'll let it drift into mediocrity now. Get out of your shell. Start interacting with the world. Figure out what is important to you, and do something -about- it. Spend a couple of hours a day at a homeless shelter passing out food (and get a meal yourself while you're at it). Do something that gets you the heck out of your own head, and then FIND a reason to exist and be happy... we create our own lives, our own joy... and our own victimhood. The only universe you need to worry about judging you, remembering you, or denying you is the one inside your own head. In the end, in 500 years, chances are that all we are and all we do will fade into the winds of time... but so what? Right -now-, I am creating, shaping, being, and doing... isn't that enough?

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 10:54:12 AM   
Jeptha


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Ialdabaoth; the reason you aren't communicating clearly is because you're not really saying anything.

No offense intended.

You say there is some kind of specialness, but then you try and explain it by giving a link to an unknown soldier's grave.

Poetic, but hardly direct or clarity producing.

I suspect that you would never explain anything directly because you are invested in protecting your own illusion. Nothing unusual there. We all have our own mythology which we wrap around ourselves. This whole site reminds me of dungeons and dragons sometimes. We all do it, some are just more florid than others.

That's where therapy comes in. We have the capacity to fool ourselves in an endless loop, reinforcing our own inanity, but when we hear ourselves explaining our highly logical world views to a competent listener, the whole thing tends to fall apart.

I think you have to explain exactly what specialness is and then examine that. Is it genius? Is it merely confidence? Is it beauty? Is it fantastic success? Any or all?

I've met people who were geniuses and people who were stunningly beautiful, but I don't think of them as special, per se, because they are not a mystery to me. They are just people. They may have had a benefit of upbringing as ShaktiSama alludes to, that got them on the right path early on.

But, they've all spent a lot of time being who they are and doing what they do.
This is not mysterious. To put it in the bald terms of that "Outliers" book, it takes 10,000 hours of doing something to become special at it.

That seems like an absurd thing; to assign a number to it. But I think it makes the point that you have to live in something to become it.

But then, while we may desire to add certain talents or skills, each of us is already somewhere.

And we're starting to become (slightly) disillusioned with the cult of celebrity that is the National Religion. So, while we are still hopeless romantics who tend to mythologize, we also like shows like "This American Life", and postmodern concepts like "all points of view are equally legitimate", read zines, listen to punk rock music that has a certain "do-it-yourself" aspect, and so forth.
From that viewpoint, the unknown soldier becomes just as special as any celebrity.


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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 11:45:57 AM   
NihilusZero


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If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

There is no inherent "special". There are only eyes and tinted sunglasses. And when you 'pop' from no one's tint, the mirror can make a serviceable source of solace, but itself yields a security just as illusory.

"Special" isn't a quality, it's a closed circuit with at least two switches.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/29/2009 11:46:33 AM >


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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 12:45:03 PM   
FawneTwo


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I suscribe to the snowflake theory myself

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 3:41:38 PM   
RedMagic1


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Society has put me in some "special" bucket for most of my life.  When I was two years old, I was diagnosed retarded.  When I was nine years old, I was "diagnosed" a child prodigy who was ready to be enrolled in college.

In my teens and early 20's, I enjoyed using my abilities to out-think others as a way to get one over on them -- to win at poker, for example.  It was an immature time in my life, and I'm not proud of how I acted.  It was due to lack of self-esteem.  This may sound impossible to you, OP, but just as a swimsuit model often hates her body, in a deep way I thought no one cared about me at all, and that I wasn't worthy of love as a person, only worthy of admiration (or fear) because of my freaky brain.  If you read biographies of other child prodigies, you'll see this is very common.  Most of them "crack" in their 20s.

What "saved" me was the love of a wonderful woman, and throwing away the academic rat race in order to do extensive volunteer work.  I grounded myself in the reality of human beings, and invested my effort in building up other people.  By doing that, I built up myself.

The problems you are talking about can only be resolved by action.  An intellectual debate has no value here.  Leave the house and start helping someone else.  Not kidding.  You can create your sense of self-specialness by what your body creates in the world.  When you help another person, no one can take that away from you.  There are people who are alive today, because of me.  I will be proud of that, forever.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 3:54:17 PM   
roughleather


Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Most of the girls I'm interested in have no shortage of people interested in them. My desires are very selective and pretty mainstream, so I have a lot of competition. And you know, realistically? I'm just not that high-quality. If I were to be honest with myself, instead of pumping up my ego to look attractive, I would quickly realize that everything I have to offer one of these girls, they can probably get from someone younger, more attractive, and much higher-paid than me.


Try  "player" sites and seminars.  You just need better pick-up technique.

Also, realize that, while on-line the unattached men far outnumber the unattached women, this is not true of the real world.

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RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 4:02:13 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Most of the girls I'm interested in have no shortage of people interested in them. My desires are very selective and pretty mainstream, so I have a lot of competition. And you know, realistically? I'm just not that high-quality. If I were to be honest with myself, instead of pumping up my ego to look attractive, I would quickly realize that everything I have to offer one of these girls, they can probably get from someone younger, more attractive, and much higher-paid than me.


Try  "player" sites and seminars.  You just need better pick-up technique.

Also, realize that, while on-line the unattached men far outnumber the unattached women, this is not true of the real world.




UH so he can learn to treat women like shit, and how to be a manipulative bastard? Fuck all those "player" and "pick-up artist" sites. If I found out my man had been to those seminars or worse, involved in that player game or had any of those books? I'd leave him.

Why would I leave him? Because he's putting on a front. He's not a real person at that point, he is acting how some stupid class taught him how to act. God and that would throw every romantic thought I have about a relationship out the fucking window. All the happy memories? Mean absolutely nothing then. Because I would never know if anything he did was because he WANTED to actually do it, or because some BOOK told him to do it.

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/29/2009 4:04:28 PM >


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(in reply to roughleather)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 4:14:34 PM   
angelslave77


Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
Because I judged a lil to quickly I decided to delete this.


< Message edited by angelslave77 -- 9/29/2009 4:46:20 PM >

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Not "Feeling Special" at all - 9/29/2009 4:19:19 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline
For one angle slave, he is not pro-anna.

He never says anything about wanting an "anorexic contortionist" as a partner. And I for one know of AT LEAST two women who fit into the category of the type of women he wants. And neither of them are anorexic.

AND I'm a 5'7 110lb contortionist.



But great job at making assumptions that are not based on fact or any logical thinking.

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/29/2009 4:20:46 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 140
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