RE: Polanski Arrested. (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 4:41:44 AM)

quote:

I want him convicted of the crimes he plead guilty too.
i agree...without dragging her back into this any more then she already is.




Kirata -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 8:08:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I want him convicted of the crimes he plead guilty too. And you appear to want to give him another award for making it with a 13 year old lolita.


Nahh, I was reacting to knee-jerk cries for his head. Let's see what happens next.

K.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 8:12:43 AM)

quote:

Nahh, I was reacting to knee-jerk cries for his head. Let's see what happens next.
ORIGINAL: Kirata




That's right, Kirata, when a 40 something man admits to giving alcohol and 'ludes to a 13 year old and molesting her, I'm pretty well going to have a strong reaction to wanting their head on a block. I'm just silly that way.




UncleNasty -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 8:36:40 AM)

I don't believe Obama can lawfully do much in this case. The President is in the executive branch of government. This is a matter that involves the judicial branch. We have separation of powers for a reason.

Allowing victims of crime to have influence, sway or control over the punishments of convicted perpetrators would be the antithesis of the rule of law. Thank you Marc2b for your similar comments.

Uncle Nasty




slutslave4u -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 1:16:46 PM)

Some states have no statute of limitations on child molestation laws. He ran to avoid sentencing, as far as I'm concerned that should negate the agreed upon plea anyway and all charges should be brought back up. As for the mother and child wanting this to go away and let him go...some may not agree, but it is not their position to make that decision, it rests with the courts that have that jurisdiction to decide that or not, not the victims nor their family. Point being, he broke the law, he fled to avoid the sentencing....the agreed upon plea between lawyers and prosecutors does not have to be accepted by the judge. He still needs and should pay his debt, and I am not referring to monetarily to the victim, but to the courts jurisdiction.




shannie -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 2:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty
Allowing victims of crime to have influence, sway or control over the punishments of convicted perpetrators would be the antithesis of the rule of law. Thank you Marc2b for your similar comments.


Good point.  When the victims want blood, that's consistent with the prosecution's agenda. But  when they want to "forgive and forget,"  it becomes clear that a victim's personal agenda (however understandable) is not always consistent with society's interests.  And you're right, when the state simply carries out the wishes of the victim (for blood, or forgiveness), we might as well have people carrying out their own vendettas.  That was precisely what the rule of law was supposed to prevent.




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 2:43:06 PM)

A possible next step....

quote:

A citizen of Poland and France, Polanski on Monday received diplomatic backing from both governments, which in tandem asked Switzerland to release him on bail immediately pending resolution of the extradition dispute. In addition, Kouchner and Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski of Poland announced they were writing Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton seeking her intervention for an immediate release on bail and consideration of a clemency decree from President Obama
.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/28/AR2009092801413.html?wprss=rss_world/europe




AnimusRex -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 3:16:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

One, its about more than the victim and her wishes, especially as an adult and especially with a likely large sum of cash in her account.

There are thousands of victims who never got a chance to settled nor were ever compensated for a adolesence lost.

Second... for that last statement, I want Polanski to stand for his crimes and be punished thusly.



Whoa, hold on a moment.

No, it is NOT about the "thousands of victims". We try people for the specific crime in question, not in the name of a whole bunch of other crimes committed by other people in other places at other times.

I don't defend or accuse Polanski of anything, and don't really care what happens to him. But your argument is an example of the wild hysteria about molestation that we would never accept with any other crime.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 3:21:25 PM)

Well then third...

This is about his SENTENCE.... since he plead out of his trial.

So it is for the victims of all such crimes.




Sanity -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 3:45:24 PM)


Hmm. Gee. I wonder if he might be a flight risk, were he to be granted bail... [sm=brush.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A possible next step....

quote:

A citizen of Poland and France, Polanski on Monday received diplomatic backing from both governments, which in tandem asked Switzerland to release him on bail immediately pending resolution of the extradition dispute. In addition, Kouchner and Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski of Poland announced they were writing Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton seeking her intervention for an immediate release on bail and consideration of a clemency decree from President Obama
.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/28/AR2009092801413.html?wprss=rss_world/europe





minx01 -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 4:27:02 PM)

No wonder the US has such a high percentage of it's population in jail.
It's been 30 years.
The woman that was the victim as a young woman, has stated not only now, but also before that for her the case has been closed in a way that she can accept as being good enough.
The man is NOT living in the States now, nor has he for the past 30 years, nor will he, unless charges against him will be elevated.
Since what happened 30 years ago, there seems to NOT be one hint of him putting minors in any danger.
Polanski survived the holocaust.
His wife was murdered in 69 (Manson, no?)
8 years later the facts with the girl happened.
Mrs Geimer is even now on television to say she wants the charges retracted.
He is a French citizen now.
As Frederic Mitterand said in a comment today: there is an America that we like, there is also a frightened America, that seems to show it's face now in it's comments on the Polanski 'case'. We don't like that America too much.
I agree with him.




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 5:17:21 PM)

so because he had all those bad things happen to him, he should be allowed to do bad things to others?

i adore that logic. that could pretty much excuse alot of people alot of things... Manson quickly comes to mind.

He (Polanski) was a french citizen then. are they immune to obeying the laws of other countries? Are we immune to the laws of France if we travel there?

I dont care that he has been gone 30 years. I dont care that he hasnt been "caught" touching other children. Logic like that should have allowed the german officers who have faced extradition over the years to be allowed to continue to live their lives in the countries of their choices. Logic like that would not differentiate between one victim and many.




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 5:19:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hmm. Gee. I wonder if he might be a flight risk, were he to be granted bail... [sm=brush.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A possible next step....

quote:

A citizen of Poland and France, Polanski on Monday received diplomatic backing from both governments, which in tandem asked Switzerland to release him on bail immediately pending resolution of the extradition dispute. In addition, Kouchner and Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski of Poland announced they were writing Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton seeking her intervention for an immediate release on bail and consideration of a clemency decree from President Obama
.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/28/AR2009092801413.html?wprss=rss_world/europe




From what i heard, the Swiss courts fo have a bail for such incidents, but its rarely granted, and since he ran once from jurisdiction, they may not allow him to have bail.




sublace -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 5:38:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Part of the missing element is that he will be tried under the laws that existed at the time of the incident... unless i am mistaken.


That's right, tazzygirl. People considered a 13 year old a young teenager - not quite a child. A teen. A 40 year old man who had an intimate relationship with a young girl was maybe "a cad" ( or a he-man who scored!) and gulity of "taking adavantage of an innocent girl" which drew mostly clucks of disapproval from the church going crowd.

The girl would be named a lolita. She could be considered "mature beyound her years" and make families uncomfortable ( don't ask).
Sure there would be talk. Imagine the gossip. Could be it was really OK, but people can be cruel. Times were different then. ( i know, i was about 13 )




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:01:15 PM)

quote:

In 1977, he was accused of raping a teenager while photographing her during a modelling session. The girl said Polanski plied her with champagne and part of a Quaalude pill at Jack Nicholson's house while the actor was away. She said that, despite her protests, he performed oral sex, intercourse and sodomy on her.

Polanski was allowed to plead guilty to one of six charges, unlawful sexual intercourse, and was sent to prison for 42 days of psychiatric evaluation.

Lawyers agreed that would be his full sentence, but the judge tried to renege on the plea bargain. Aware the judge would sentence him to more prison time and require his voluntary deportation, Polanski fled to France.


http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2009/09/27/polanski-custody.html?ref=rss

So much for this being the ONLY attempt to nab him...

quote:

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Prosecutors said Monday that they made contact multiple times with several countries in their efforts to arrest Roman Polanski since he fled overseas in 1978, disputing claims by the director's attorneys that they never pursued extradition because it would expose misconduct by the court that handled his sex case.

A release by the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office on Monday detailed nine different actions it took over the years, including at least one per decade. The most recent was 2007, when prosecutors became aware of his scheduled appearance in Israel, but information sent arrived too late for authorities there to take action.

A similar effort in 2005 in Thailand also failed to nab the famed "Chinatown" and "Rosemary's Baby" director.

The final effort came Saturday, when Polanski, 76, was arrested in Switzerland as he arrived for the Zurich Film Festival to collect a lifetime achievement award. His lawyer has said that the director plans to fight extradition.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/news/sns-ap-eu-switzerland-polanski,0,7602771.story

quote:

The maximum sentence he could have faced was 50 years, although prosecutors had said at the time that the typical sentence was 16 months to three years in prison.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/27/entertainment/main5345354.shtml

Not quite as harnless as you would have us believe. And thats the funny thing about the law. It isnt there to make judgement calls. It isnt there to say... this child you can fuck.. this one you cannot.. this one is mature... this one is too immature. The law says... beneath a certain age... dont touch... period. at the time... 1977... in california.. she was below that age. he needs to finish up his business here.




sublace -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:14:27 PM)

I am NOT attempting to say that old fashion ( progressive?) attitude was correct. Not at all!

"mature" was a euphimism for "slut" then and that's ugly.




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:33:37 PM)

sorry. your post and Master Kirata's reminded me of the following...

quote:

Pedophile advocacy groups
During the late 1950s to early 1990s, several pedophile membership organizations advocated lowering or abolishing age of consent laws[8][9][10][11] to legalize sexual activities involving an adult and a child (defined as child sexual abuse by all modern cultures, socially, medically, and legally[12][13]). As one of their arguments to lower or abolish the age of consent, members of pedophile advocacy groups promoted their belief that children are psychologically capable of consenting to sexual interactions with adults[14] (although this opinion is contrary to legal and scientific consensus [15][16]), and they often portrayed themselves as fighting for the right of children to engage in what the activists consider to be consensual sex with adults.[11][14] Some activists tried to link their goals with those of the early LGBT social movements, but in the course of time those movements universally rejected this linkage.[8][17][18][19]

The age of consent reform efforts of pedophile advocacy groups such as the Danish Pedophile Association and the North American Man/Boy Love Association did not gain any public support[8][11][17][20][21] and today those groups that have not dissolved have only minimal membership and have ceased their activities other than through a few websites.[11][21][22][23] Beginning in the 1990s, public focus on and disapproval of pedophilia resulted in more stringent legislation and stronger criminal penalties regarding child pornography, child sexual abuse, and use of the internet to facilitate these offenses.[24][25][26]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform

Those were the same arguments...




Kirata -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:39:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sorry. your post and Master Kirata's reminded me of the following...

Sorry, but that comment says more about you than about me.

K.




tazzygirl -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:41:40 PM)

Master Kirata....they use the argument that children are sexual creatures... the same argument you posted to this thread.




sublace -> RE: Polanski Arrested. (9/28/2009 6:52:01 PM)

Exactly! I read master Kirata's post and I'm not sure how he means it. But like the text you gathered ( TY for research) I agree and said there has been a shift in public opinion about sexual consent during the 1990's.


I'd have to look it up but by psychological definition; pedos likes prepubesant children. A man who likes a just missing barely legal teen is just a creep and a masher lol ( I didn't make that up)

But certainly - like with Polansky - it's the law and he's guilty. I think it's a waste of taxpayers money to extradite him after all this time, but whatever people who vote think is right, got to agree.




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