RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 1:06:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


quote:


[8|] Syria is an "Islamic" country?

So sad [:D] .


87% of the population is Muslim (give or take a few percentage points depending upon which source you check) - I'd say that makes them Islamic.


Syria is a secular state. That makes it as Islamic as calling France a Catholic state because 80% of its population is Catholic [8|] .



pahunkboy -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 1:33:15 PM)

I have mixed feelings over the bid.

It just -  well-  ANYTHING the city does---- costs way more.... and that effects all in Cook County.    I wonder if they will get it?

I mean I will be happy- if they do- maybe they have a good plan this time.



Politesub53 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 3:09:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

BTW... I wonder when the Islamic counties like Syria, Saudi Arabia and several others will be banned for not allowing women to participate?


Question time. What sex was Syria`s only gold medal winner so far. Your clue is, the games were in errr.......Atlanta. [8|]



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 3:16:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Incidentally the London Olympics will be the first that female boxers are allowed to compete in and I think that is a good thing, you speak as if the west has always treated women equally. All you can do is set an example for others to follow and the Olympics is supposed to be about the sport i.e. non political where nations can temporarily put aside their differences unlike Moscow in 1980.



Sorry but that does not hold water as the International Olympic Committee banned South Africa and rightfully so, for not allowing Black athletes compete. Kitten... The Baath Party is nomally secular but their ban on allowing women is done as a nod to Islam. Sorry... you nor they can have it both ways on this.



Politesub53 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 3:35:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Sorry but that does not hold water as the International Olympic Committee banned South Africa and rightfully so, for not allowing Black athletes compete. Kitten... The Baath Party is nomally secular but their ban on allowing women is done as a nod to Islam. Sorry... you nor they can have it both ways on this.


Did you not read my post #23, where I quoted you ? Are you content to wallow in ignorance about Syria ? All I see here is an anti Muslim rant, based on ignorance and not fact. Not only did Syria have female atheletes in China last year, so did Afghanistan and Iran, to name but three.

Edited to show which post I mean.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 4:08:29 PM)

tokenism 53...and usually they are related to the countries leaders in some way.

The facts are women are denied sports activties for the most part in much of the Islamic world and you know this.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 4:12:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
Incidentally the London Olympics will be the first that female boxers are allowed to compete in and I think that is a good thing, you speak as if the west has always treated women equally. All you can do is set an example for others to follow and the Olympics is supposed to be about the sport i.e. non political where nations can temporarily put aside their differences unlike Moscow in 1980.

Sorry but that does not hold water as the International Olympic Committee banned South Africa and rightfully so, for not allowing Black athletes compete. Kitten... The Baath Party is nomally secular but their ban on allowing women is done as a nod to Islam. Sorry... you nor they can have it both ways on this.

South Africa is slightly different in that there was no social justification that someone black couldn’t compete; the decision was made on the basis of bigotry alone. With some strict Islamic countries there is another kind of bigotry dressed up in religious concerns regarding modesty and a woman’s role. I think excluding certain nations to force them to change can work if the nation is capable of looking at itself and thinking 'yes there is no good reason for this injustice' otherwise it will not work ever. All you can do instead is hope to inspire them to think of their women differently over time i.e. capable of competing in such a sporting competition. You can't inspire them to sign up women for such sports if they are not involved at all in such sports. Probably to those nations and the audience in those nations missing out on the Olympics wouldn't be such a big deal (for SA it probably was more); you have to think seriously about how effective your threats are to them and how you can influence them if you exclude them from everything.

I ask again are all sports in the west equally represented by both sexes even such sports where physical difference give no advantage such as in motorsports? We still deep down have our own problem with our perception of what women can do or what things they should be interested in. If we had true equality we would have equal participation. You may say less women want to race cars but you would be missing the point as to why that is in terms of the social pressures and the expectations of our society.



Politesub53 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 4:24:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

tokenism 53...and usually they are related to the countries leaders in some way.

The facts are women are denied sports activties for the most part in much of the Islamic world and you know this.


Your kidding me right ?  First you say "None" now you say "Tokenism"  , First you name "Syria" now it`s "The Islamic world"  The fact is Syria and Iran have very few Olympians, so they are hardly likely to have lots of women entrants are they.

If you want to pick a nation with no women athletes, try our friends in Saudi.




Marc2b -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 4:42:27 PM)


quote:


Syria is a secular state. That makes it as Islamic as calling France a Catholic state because 80% of its population is Catholic [8|] .


Secular, schemcular. When 80% of a population or more is of one religion it has an impact on its politics, laws, etc. Syria may not be an official Islamic State but it is a State and it is Islamic.



kittinSol -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 4:57:22 PM)

You are wrong.

NEXT!



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 5:09:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Secular, schemcular. When 80% of a population or more is of one religion it has an impact on its politics, laws, etc. Syria may not be an official Islamic State but it is a State and it is Islamic.

85% of people in China are Buddhists apparently. So is China secular or not? You made a post some time ago about the persecution of religion in China alluding to the fact it was secular.

Actually I have to add it is hard to believe Chinese communist law is based on what is touted as one of the most harmless non interfering religions.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 5:24:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

On a personal note, I refuse to support the Olympics anywhere and in any fashion until they admit that synchronized swimming and rhythmic gymnastics are not really sports.




Awww c'mon.  You don't like all those pretty ribbons swirling thru the air during those gymnastic routines?  Or those water dancers?  [&:]


I didn't say I didn't like the pretty chicks with the ribbons or the water dancers. I said that they're not sports. I would personally like to see them replaced by pole dancing and the Philipino ping pong ball shoot (separate medals for accuracy and distance). Now THOSE are sports!



Thadius -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 6:28:41 PM)

*Fast Reply*

I remember a few Olympics back when Chicago was trying to win a bid for the Summer Games... the radio hosts had a blast with it.  Back then the thought of doing anything in the Chicago river was akin to scuba diving in a septic tank... and since the concept of holding the games in various cities and countries is to introduce folks to different cultures, the big suggestions were to hold events at the various parks around the city, perhaps some of the basketball prelims could have been held outdoors at lovely places like the Robert Taylor homes or Cabrini Green...

Congrats to the city.  I hope the tourist dollars help the economy and those willing to get out there and work for it.



Marc2b -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 6:29:47 PM)

No I'm not.

[sm=tongue.gif]




Marc2b -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 6:42:36 PM)

quote:

85% of people in China are Buddhists apparently. So is China secular or not? You made a post some time ago about the persecution of religion in China alluding to the fact it was secular.

Actually I have to add it is hard to believe Chinese communist law is based on what is touted as one of the most harmless non interfering religions.


China is a secular country. China is a Buddhist country. I'm not talking about official forms of government. I'm talking about describing a country based upon it's demographics. The United States is a secular country but it is also fair to say that the United States is a Christian country simply because a large majority either are Christian or are part of a culture that was heavily influenced by Christianity. Likewise it is fair to say that Syria is an Islamic country. Nearly 90% of the country is Muslim. What would you call them? An Episcopalian country?

I also think that it behooves us to recognize that religion - as part of a peoples culture - impacts how they see the world, how they relate to each other (e.g. what laws they do, and do not, have) and how they relate to other cultures (foreign relations, trade policies, etc).

I really don't see why some people have such a difficulty understanding that.

Edited to ad: and I'm not just talking about you or Kittin. A little while back, that sponge bob guy (his name slips me at the moment) got bent out of shape over my calling the United Stares a Christian Country. So whatever happened to that sponge bob guy? Did he get booted, or what?





kittinSol -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 6:45:49 PM)

You fail to see that FatDad implied that Syria was an Islamic country that forbade female athletes, when 1. Syria is a secular state and 2. it has female athletes.

So yes... you are wrong [8D] .



Marc2b -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/28/2009 6:52:40 PM)

quote:


You fail to see that FatDad implied that Syria was an Islamic country that forbade female athletes, when 1. Syria is a secular state and 2. it has female athletes.

So yes... you are wrong [8D] .


No, I saw that just fine - I just didn't give a shit. What I saw was you saying that Syria isn't an Islamic country. This was followed by me thinking (and laughing) - what the fuck? Syria isn't an Islamic country? That's like saying the Pope isn't Catholic.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/29/2009 4:33:12 AM)

I can see you are contradicting yourself in relation to how 80% of a country help form Islamic laws of Syria but then stating how Chinese communist laws are not related in any way to Buddhist principals thus suggesting a tiny majority are shaping the laws not the majority. Isn't it possible therefore that in places a minority can form a secular state even though the majority are Islamic? Perhaps you are saying that Islam is inherently an aggressive law making religion compared to other religions?

My perception of the US is that it is far from being secular, you have a President that can only get himself elected if he wraps his speeches up in god talk. God bless America etc. For me if the person was elected based on how he could get the job done versus what form of god he believed in then I would call it a secular country. Perhaps contrast the speeches given by American leaders to those of some European countries and you'll see what true secularism is. I can't remember the last time the PM spoke of god and when Tony Blair started to do it at the end of his leadership he started to get really heavy criticism for it. For example there is nothing wrong with Bush justifying the war in Iraq based on the wishes of god in such speeches but Tony Blair would never easily get away with such talk when he adopted that style. See the difference it is obvious based on what the people want in a leader, America is not secular to me.

Not sure what happened to the fate of sponge bob you shouldn't be talking to cartoons it isn't healthy.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/29/2009 6:11:51 AM)

My additional thoughts are that if you see a political figure in government justify their actions with religion, regardless of what your particular beliefs are, and find it disturbing rather than comforting then you probably have a system of government with an emphasis on secularism.

Also since the pledge of allegiance contains certain references to god that no atheist could say in good conscience it means no atheist could realistically be president and thus the US isn't secular.



Marc2b -> RE: Chicago Olympics 2016...Not all Chicagoans seem happy (9/29/2009 6:46:08 AM)

quote:

I can see you are contradicting yourself in relation to how 80% of a country help form Islamic laws of Syria but then stating how Chinese communist laws are not related in any way to Buddhist principals thus suggesting a tiny majority are shaping the laws not the majority. Isn't it possible therefore that in places a minority can form a secular state even though the majority are Islamic?


No contradiction. Different cultures are going to manifest themselves in their government and society in different ways. Buddhism and Islam are very different from each other so naturally they are going result in different outcomes. One size does not fit all. As for a minority controlling a majority – well, that’s nothing new in history. It’s called tyranny.

quote:

Perhaps you are saying that Islam is inherently an aggressive law making religion compared to other religions?


In many ways it is.

quote:

My perception of the US is that it is far from being secular, you have a President that can only get himself elected if he wraps his speeches up in god talk. God bless America etc. For me if the person was elected based on how he could get the job done versus what form of god he believed in then I would call it a secular country. Perhaps contrast the speeches given by American leaders to those of some European countries and you'll see what true secularism is. I can't remember the last time the PM spoke of god and when Tony Blair started to do it at the end of his leadership he started to get really heavy criticism for it. For example there is nothing wrong with Bush justifying the war in Iraq based on the wishes of god in such speeches but Tony Blair would never easily get away with such talk when he adopted that style. See the difference it is obvious based on what the people want in a leader, America is not secular to me.


You’re catching on. The United States officially is a secular society – separation of church and state and all that, but a President who doesn’t show a “proper” Christian temperament has little chance of getting elected. But he is elected, not appointed by the Pope or some religious body. Thus the United States is both a secular society and a Christian nation. I still fail to see why calling a country with a more than eighty percent Muslim population an Islamic country is wrong.

quote:

Not sure what happened to the fate of sponge bob you shouldn't be talking to cartoons it isn't healthy.


I presume he got booted – he could get quite snarky – but he was entertaining.



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