RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework

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zephyrkajira -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:54:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D]

CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:54:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth I love the term "no limits" - it gives me an opportunity to discuss my amputation fetish. ;) :D You have that one too? Glad I'm not alone! Oh yes. ;) For a time, I was a pretty popular artist on 'gurochan.net'. :) Ok... Gurochan is extreme. (backs off a little slowly) ;) I have the standard "boxing helena" complex. I love to fantasize about being legless and armless and how helpless and at everyone's mercy that would leave me. I wrote a halfway decent story about it once, that really grossed out the old crowd on The Stile Project (they're rather hard to gross out). I'm not sure if I'm proud of that or not. :/

AnimusRex -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:56:16 PM)
I am mystified, really, why this sparked so much attention. Isn't housework just part of what couples deal with? And if one is submissive, wouldn't is naturally follow that the submissive does what the Dominant asks? Kim refuses to even let me warm up my coffee- she delights in cooking and cleaning for me, just as I enjoy taking care of the garden and the repairs and home improvement stuff. Its what makes a couple a partnership, isn't it, that everyone contributes in some way to the household? I guess if people are occasional play partners, not a live in couple it is very different. But failing that, I am amused at the image of a D/s couple standing over the cat box, arguing the Hegelian dialectics of service versus punishment.

CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D] Well, that too.

porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:58:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal If you don't care to think about the question, that's fine, but then why respond in a thread that so doesn't interest you just to say that the question is fruitless and you refuse to think about it? Where's the fruit? ;) In the grand scheme of things, at least in my grand scheme, absolutely nothing said on this forum "matters." But it does past the time to shoot the bull. :) because that is my opinion and it needn't validate yours to be valid. you posed a question, one that i don't sit around pondering because i don't care what people call themselves. which is a response. perhaps not the one you'd hope for but one nonetheless. porcelaine

fadedshadow -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:59:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D] Well, that too. i kinda figured on the dying part XD

zephyrkajira -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 4:00:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D] Well, that too. See that's the part noone thinks about until it's too late and there is a body to get rid of [;)]

tammystarm -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 4:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Justme -- you simply seem to be saying cleaning a home is no big deal and you seem to be making an issue that a slave should simply just clean your house because well you do it and its not that big of a deal. To me, it also depends on what you consider a clean home, not a passable home but a clean one. BUT if you do it, then there is no need or want for a slave to do it -- correct? So what is your argument here? What i find amusing is you seem to have it all worked out so i guess the rest of the families in the world whose first complaint usually tends to be getting the housework done must just not be doing it right. I'll be sure to tell them lol. It also depends on the size of a house. Sure if you live in a one - 2 bedroom apartment, its not hard to keep it clean - you take a room a day, and kitchen and bathroom daily with a wipedown. However, the men whom i get involved with don't live in apartments, and so they have had anywhere from 8-32 room homes and that isn't including bathrooms. My former Master's expectations of a clean home went beyond the daily licks and promises, which is why he employed someone to clean his home to his expectations. So yeah, i guess for some the housework isn't all that much. DOn't get me wrong, housework is a fact of life for MOST, however, what i see are Men who want slaves to take over their housework as well as everything else, i.e., the kids, working outside the home etc. As i said, MOST women in the world does this, however, it always amazes me that Men who want slaves many times their first concept is you as a slave will take care of ALL the housework and everything else cause you are a slave and that's what slaves do. That simply isn't true -- slave does not equate MAID - free labor. angel just a quickie a slave = anything the Master wants her to be or do.

zephyrkajira -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 4:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D] Well, that too. i kinda figured on the dying part XD Bit of a waste don't you think?

barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 4:23:16 PM)
chuckles, tammystarm - your attempt to try and educate in your wisdom is noted. However, i well know what a slave is i was one to a Gorean Man for 8ish years -- i also know a slave is someone who is owned not a possibility of the getting to know you phase as this thread speaks of. We aren't speaking of an already established relationship of Master and slave, we are talking about men who are looking for a slave and a woman who is not yet his slave, who can take him or leave him. I think tammystern you have done what many have done, you are speaking as to an already established relationship wherein the OP and topic is about a relationship that hasn't been established. And if you read my posts that is how i am addressing same. This isn't about a woman held in mastery and his mastery determines her existance -- this is about men who don't have the hold of mastery over a woman yet and are making a list of all the jobs she will be expected to do because he thinks being a slave is free labor for him. Sure SOME women will say okay cool, and some women will find Men who don't see slavery as only free labor maids so he can be lazy. grins but by all means, if you wish to be free labor maid for the Man who you call Master and that is the focus of your slavery to him -- go for it. I however, need more than simply cleaning a Man's house for him to exist as a slave. BUt something tells me if a Man you started speaking to as a potential Master focused solely on your being free maid service for him and nothing else drew you to him, you would not be preaching -- a slave = anything the Master wants her to be or do. You would move on to find a Man who called to your needs, not a Man who wanted a slave so he can be lazy and have free labor in the name of slavery. Someone mentioned that M/s is just like a regular relationship -- that is true. Men i know participate, they wash dishes at tmes, they do the MAN'S work lol as i call it, they contribute and don't just sit there saying i am the Master. The fantasy comes in when you have Men who believe that having a slave means they don't have to participate in anything in the home other than dictating orders because they have a maid for free.

IronBear -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 4:47:06 PM)
Were I in mind to sit and watch the housework being done or go fishing, I'd put my hand in my pocket and pay for a housemaid or char lady to do things twice weekly. I may have a service slave but unless I have several of them who can share the duties between them, I'll just roll up my sleeves and bog in.

sravaka -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 5:56:38 PM)
quote: I am mystified, really, why this sparked so much attention. Isn't housework just part of what couples deal with? And if one is submissive, wouldn't is naturally follow that the submissive does what the Dominant asks? Kim refuses to even let me warm up my coffee- she delights in cooking and cleaning for me, just as I enjoy taking care of the garden and the repairs and home improvement stuff. Its what makes a couple a partnership, isn't it, that everyone contributes in some way to the household? I think what you write here backhandedly reveals exactly why it is a sore subject to many-- you see it as something couples deal with. Innumerable D-types on the other side see it as something submissives deal with exclusively, and appear to relish the idea of free domestic help to be ordered about above almost any other consideration. To me, when both parties to a relationship work full-time, this falls somewhere between totally unappealing and flat-out unfair. I claim to be neither a no-limits slave, nor totally housework averse. It's just a question of how many hours there are in a day and what the priorities are. If I'm expected to shoulder the full burden of housework plus a full-time job, while master-guy has only to go to work then come home and twiddle his thumbs while watching me scurry about.... that just doesn't work for me. Hint to others who view the matter this way: if the first thing he shows you when giving you a tour of his house is the obscure corner of the basement that holds the washer and dryer... run away!

Musicmystery -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 7:04:19 PM)
quote: Innumerable D-types on the other side see it as something submissives deal with exclusively, and appear to relish the idea of free domestic help to be ordered about above almost any other consideration. To me, when both parties to a relationship work full-time, this falls somewhere between totally unappealing and flat-out unfair. This never made sense to me in either direction. I've always found there's plenty for EVERYONE to do and still leave stuff undone.

tammystarm -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 7:48:44 PM)
Then i guess i should just say, i am very fortunate that i have a Master who adores me for who i am and what i do for Him, and vice versa. He replaces my waterpump, i clean and make lunch. As far as a new beginning in a relationship, depending on the circumstances. why shouldnt a slave prove to the Master who she is by doing the things that He would require her to do if she was His. A trial of sorts. Just as a sub/slave just have the same trial period for the Master.

barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:16:22 PM)
Sorry but i just LOVE statements like this: quote: why shouldnt a slave prove to the Master who she is by doing the things that He would require her to do if she was His. A trial of sorts. Let's see its okay to show how slave you are to a Man who doesn't own you by cleaning his hous while he sits around doing nothing, so you can show him the slavey part of you, but let's see he would also require her to give over to him her money from work and financial information, so are you going to show him just how slavey you are in THAT aspect or is being a slave only how willing you are to clean his home? What about more intimate requirements? After all that is what shows how much of a slave someone is -- how eager they are to clean lol for him. LAst i checked cleaning a house doesn't show anyone WHO i am or who anyone is. If he needs a trial of domesticity to see who i am, to me, he has missed the forest for the trees. To me, slave is my reactions to his mastery not how well i can wipe down a counter while he sits watching football. Women all over the world take care of their families by cleaning house and taking care of people because its pretty much required of them this doesn't make them a slave or show then as being slaves. But why stop at cleaning the house, i mean when there are so many more ideas that can REALLY prove i mean actual PROVE yourself trials of how slave she is and will obey all of his commands and requirements and this all before he actually owns her. I guess i am different, i don't play a slave prior to being a slave just so i can show how slave i can be. angel

DesFIP -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:29:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm Then i guess i should just say, i am very fortunate that i have a Master who adores me for who i am and what i do for Him, and vice versa. He replaces my waterpump, i clean and make lunch. As far as a new beginning in a relationship, depending on the circumstances. why shouldnt a slave prove to the Master who she is by doing the things that He would require her to do if she was His. A trial of sorts. Just as a sub/slave just have the same trial period for the Master. Tammy, for instance, if you and Art lived closer together. You work all day, come home and take care of your home and your ums. What if he then insisted you come clean his place, without helping you pay for child care, without caring that you need to be there to help with homework, without caring that you get home and you don;t have any sleep before the next day. And not just once a week, but every day come over and make the house hotel perfect with a three course meal. Could you do that without shortchanging your um's needs and your own? Of course not. Obviously he wouldn't ever do this to you, but I have known men who do expect this on a daily basis and don't care about what it costs the sub to provide it. Those kinds of experiences are what might lead a sub to say that in the next relationship there would be no housework. I grew up in a house where the house was used for business entertaining constantly. It was not uncommon to suddenly have 8 extra dinner guests. We had a cook and a maid because less than that did not give my father the atmosphere he needed. I'm not capable of cleaning a house to that standard, of a 4 star hotel. I can cook meals for 16, three courses plus something hot passed around with cocktails. But I can't do that and clean, and take care of my kids, and have any strength to have a relationship. This is a full time job, two actually. Can you do three full time jobs? The one where you work to pay your rent plus two unpaid ones that also require 40 hours a week? And be there for your ums? Of course not. Making him lunch and he changes the oil is totally different then taking care of your home daily and also running over and cooking him dinner in his home and cleaning it. And work, and being a parent.

sravaka -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:32:54 PM)
quote: To me, slave is my reactions to his mastery not how well i can wipe down a counter while he sits watching football. Barelynangel.... I think I love you. [:)] I wonder why mastery is so often left out of this equation, in favor of questioning the slaviness of the slave?

tammystarm -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:41:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm Then i guess i should just say, i am very fortunate that i have a Master who adores me for who i am and what i do for Him, and vice versa. He replaces my waterpump, i clean and make lunch. As far as a new beginning in a relationship, depending on the circumstances. why shouldnt a slave prove to the Master who she is by doing the things that He would require her to do if she was His. A trial of sorts. Just as a sub/slave just have the same trial period for the Master. Tammy, for instance, if you and Art lived closer together. You work all day, come home and take care of your home and your ums. What if he then insisted you come clean his place, without helping you pay for child care, without caring that you need to be there to help with homework, without caring that you get home and you don;t have any sleep before the next day. And not just once a week, but every day come over and make the house hotel perfect with a three course meal. Could you do that without shortchanging your um's needs and your own? Of course not. Obviously he wouldn't ever do this to you, but I have known men who do expect this on a daily basis and don't care about what it costs the sub to provide it. Those kinds of experiences are what might lead a sub to say that in the next relationship there would be no housework. I grew up in a house where the house was used for business entertaining constantly. It was not uncommon to suddenly have 8 extra dinner guests. We had a cook and a maid because less than that did not give my father the atmosphere he needed. I'm not capable of cleaning a house to that standard, of a 4 star hotel. I can cook meals for 16, three courses plus something hot passed around with cocktails. But I can't do that and clean, and take care of my kids, and have any strength to have a relationship. This is a full time job, two actually. Can you do three full time jobs? The one where you work to pay your rent plus two unpaid ones that also require 40 hours a week? And be there for your ums? Of course not. Making him lunch and he changes the oil is totally different then taking care of your home daily and also running over and cooking him dinner in his home and cleaning it. And work, and being a parent. I think this has been my fault of not reading the OP's entire statement. As this is certainly not the case with Master and i. If in fact all that needed to be done W/we would hire as many as needed to take care of the situation. I was in fact referring to barelynangel. In which i wasnt referrring to a constant taking care of all His needs without something in return, of sorts. (my fibro is kicking in and i dont have the right words). All i was saying is that, just like any relationship there is a trial period to see if they are in fact compatible . in this case if He wants to make sure His house is up to standards by her, than it goes both ways. She should also know that what she needs from the relationship is meet as well. i am fortunate that O/our relationship while i do meet all His needs is a two way street, i wouldnt be a doormat, He doesnt want a doormat. There are some slaves i know who want to be , its not for me. DES you have mail

AnimusRex -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 9:07:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka I think what you write here backhandedly reveals exactly why it is a sore subject to many-- you see it as something couples deal with. Innumerable D-types on the other side see it as something submissives deal with exclusively, and appear to relish the idea of free domestic help to be ordered about above almost any other consideration. To me, when both parties to a relationship work full-time, this falls somewhere between totally unappealing and flat-out unfair. Kim commented on this, and made an interesting observation- she pointed me to DesFIP's point where she makes a similar point , that some Dominants do in fact want someone who is NOT to be loved, cherished and honored, NOT part of a couple, but merely a maid with fuck priviledges. Kinda like how some guys claim to want a girlfriend, but really only want a fuckbuddy. Well...in that case, yeah, I can see where it would be a rather sore point. So it isn't really about not wanting to do housework, but wanting the housework to be part of a package that comes with being in a fulfilling relationship. We have seen people on both sides of the kneel who basically, want a free ride- either a Dominant asserts that since they are the Dom, they are too good to have to work or do housework, or the submissive makes noises about how they are helpless and unable to work or do housework, yadda yadda. Sometimes "alternative lifestyles" become in some people's minds, an excuse to indulge in self-centered behavior that would otherwise be socially unacceptable.

fadedshadow -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 9:12:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: zephyrkajira quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? No it means that eventually you will have a very dead slave [:D] Well, that too. i kinda figured on the dying part XD Bit of a waste don't you think? not if it's entertaining =]

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