RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework

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Hierodule -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:09:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Really? When an employer hires a car mechanic, let's say...someone who has advertised themselves as a car mechanic on their resume; should the employer not expect the employee to act like one "right out of the box"? To show competency in car mechanics, to understand the use of tools and know at least the basic systems and how they word? I see the paralel, and will run with the metaphor: Say the employer hires an untested mechanic, who has the skills but lacks real life experience, and offers them a period of "on the job training" both parties are responsible for making sure the new employee learns the skill necessary for the job. If the new employee refuses to learn a certain aspect of the job because of preference then they misrepresented themselves and should be fired. But if they show promise and take time everyday to practice the skills they need to perform adequately they are upholding their end of the bargain. If they reach the end of their training period and still have gaps in their skill set they either aren't talented mechanics or they didn't receive adequate training from their supervisors or both. quote: I should think that the ability of the slave to continually and properly obey under discomfort to be a pretty universal prerequisite. Yes, that is what I meant by a willingness to surrender. If slave isn't willing to do that then they aren't a slave. quote: Remember, though, we're talking about "limits" of preference. "Limits" of "[whine] I just don't feel like it!". True. I guess I forgot that this was about housework, something that should be simple. I was more responding to Porcelain's description of slavery and her interpretation of it. Semi-unrelated query: the fact that someone who refuses to do housework would call themselves a slave is strange but so is the fact that anyone who isn't currently owned would call themselves a "slave." Even if they are willing to do anything in service of a Dom are they really a slave if they have no owner?

porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:12:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero If the slave wants to describe him/herself as "no limits" but refuses to do housework and at least advertises this before hand, I have no qualms (although I'll privately roll my eyes and scratch my head). If the slave is making these exemptions once in the relationship and starts treating preference as an acceptable quality to disqualify something from the list of things they'd be required to do (you know, as a slave and all), then I'm seeing a bigger issue in where their head is. if she agreed she needs to get with the program. end of story. i don't care if she advertises herself as the reincarnation of lao tzu. if the M-type fails to probe to determine that she is really is as no limits as she's claimed, there's a problem. that doesn't mean i'd condone willing deception either. i do not. however she can't enslave herself either. someone must be at the helm for that to happen. quote: Sure. And I suppose all this comes down to a grouping of different interpretations of what responsibilities "slavery" will entail, but I find it extremely difficult to imagine the sort of person who would envision the role of a slave as that where they can excuse themselves from obeying for whimsy's sake. I'm not arguing it can't happen. I'm just saying it becomes laughable when some people's view of "slavery" is "slavery when it suits me". I don't think expecting a standard of trying to act out a role one has chosen (in any part of life) is something outlandish. we've said it time and time again. communicate. but you can't anticipate everything and there is always a big slice of the unknown involved. she has to accept that there will be surprises and be willing to set aside her discomfort and preferences once she has agreed to serve him. excusing myself from an activity is not in my makeup. it would require a very sincere reason why it can't be completed and His approval of such. even then i'd make every effort to do so anyway. simply stating i can't or won't because i find it uncomfortable is unacceptable. keep in mind my point of reference is prior to the yoke, not after. quote: Then we are in harmonious agreement. i think we're on the same page on most of this. i just place responsibility on both. if the M-type takes her at what she says and never pokes around he has no one to blame later on if little miss no limits becomes a living nightmare. this doesn't justify her behavior either. quote: The potential failure of the relationship would certainly be upon both shoulders, yes. And, certainly we're talking about an environment in which the M-type has not provided enough reinforcement to where the slave is appropriately obeying, but what if the parameters the slave expects are those that would make the M/s dynamic silly? Take a run of the mill relationship (where both parties had entered a monogamous role) where partner A is unhappy and not putting effort into it because he/she is not given freedom to have casual sexual encounters with other people. Would we say this is a situation in which partner B is responsible for not providing an environment for partner B to be happy, and therefore just as big a part of the problem as partner A? i have been very outspoken about my opinion of expectations and how they relate to slavery. parameters? she has none. those are forsaken at the door. a surrender that does not include the cessation of such parameters is NOT absolute. and to be blunt i call her bluff if she elects not to surrender those things that he hasn't asked her to hand over. truth is truth. she's a slave. i see it in black and white terms. she has chosen to defer to his will. which means that may involve situations that are very uncomfortable or downright off putting. i must add in a caveat, i truly see slavery in more absolute terms. so if he wants others and i have agreed to serve that means we're having company. end of discussion. quote: The way you say this, it seems to suggest the onus of responsibility is somehow on the M-type to be responsible for the decision of the slave to not just to be a "slave" in their relationship, but a "slave" period. People who would describe themselves as a slave and seek to play such a role introduce themselves into a "different way of being" and are responsible for their own ability (or inability) to live according to the precepts they've chosen. the slave has no authority to set the framework for what will or won't occur. the M-type should have some idea of what he's seeking overall. i believe if he's chosen the girl and feels she's capable of providing the level of service he wants then that should occur. i don't believe it should involve a power struggle or some ridiculous do si do dance that has to take place in order to secure her compliance. she yields, obeys, and acts. simple. very simple. people will say all sorts of stuff. being an adult teaches us to test things and not to take everything on blind faith. that is the idea i'm communicating. she is responsible for presenting something authentic. he's responsible for making sure that the goods are as advertised. quote: Is it? Are there no standards to which a slave should hold themselves to? It's a role of personal responsibility. Other roles have at least loose universal standards. Parent. Friend. Mentor. Maybe some days , though I've chosen to be a bartender, I'd like to pretend it wasn't part of my expected responsibilities to make frozen drinks (especially multiple at a time with only one blender) but that is an expected standard. What does it say for me to hold up such a title if I feel I'm free to waive some of my expected responsibilities for having it just because (essentially) "I don't feel like it"? i would hope the girl has some sense of self and does these things on her own and isn't required to have an M-type to compel her to be ethical. i have a sincere problem seeing how she could be wholly authentic to another when intentionally lying in the same vain. she should expect to do what she's told. see how easy that is. my earlier comments related to genuine common sense. for instance, i'm a culture buff. i know i love opera and all of that. if i decide to partner with someone that hates these things and will never indulge my enjoyment of such i have no one to fault but myself. of course he might not reveal that in advance, but if he does i need to suck it up and deal if i've agreed to be with him. i'd say that would be true in both cases but that's another topic. quote: I suppose, superficially, an M/s relationship where the slave has never been asked to do something uncomfortable (and therefore can obey with total fluidity) would just like an M/s relationship where the slave has consisitently been asked to do uncomfortable things yet has executed them unflinchingly and honorably because of his/her devotion both to the relationship and to the M-type. But they wouldn't actually be the same, would they? in simplified terms it is called life. we always are presented with challenges that force us to confront what we do not enjoy. it would be fantastical for either to think it would never occur. i expect and embrace those difficult moments because they lead to a heightened sense of surrender and deeper enslavement. my goal is to hand everything i can over to Him. it comes down to which Master she's truly serving. Him or herself. as you might imagine i'll take the first every time. porcelaine

Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:18:40 PM)
quote: i don't think i would enjoy having to grind every day cleaning a home. Once it is clean it is clean..means lots of days are easy...lol

barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:22:55 PM)
Then i hope you enjoy the cleaning. If its THAT EASY lol you should not find it hard to maintain. So what do you need or want a slave to do it for you if MOST days are easy. Especially if you have her working all day on top of all this easy stuff. MOst of the families in the world find it SOOO easy (once it is clean of course). It utterly amazes me how lazy Men are who want slaves. I never realized that until i came online and Men started insinuating being a slave means you would be doing all or most of the housework as well as everything else they wanted and expected and i was like hell, might as well become a wife, at least then i could demand EQUAL effort with something i don't enjoy (housework). angel

Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:28:02 PM)
Oh I don't mind cleaning. I clean my own home. ( everything..except the outside windows) We make it sound like it is a nightmare. Yes..if you never clean..it propably is. But when doing it regular..no big deal. But I guess because it is a lifestyle activity..it is special...lol..extra hard.. LIke we all live in castles with 40 rooms.

porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:29:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Semi-unrelated query: the fact that someone who refuses to do housework would call themselves a slave is strange but so is the fact that anyone who isn't currently owned would call themselves a "slave." Even if they are willing to do anything in service of a Dom are they really a slave if they have no owner? which invites in other questions as well. how is he dominant if he doesn't have someone to dominate? how can she be submissive if she has no one to yield to? of course we could apply rudimentary theories to this and use the verbiage one might find in other areas. whereby one cannot be called doctor without the m.d. or a lawyer without completing a period of study. have we progressed to the point where we're now Dominant and submissive oriented persons with a predilection towards roles as Master and slave? would this new form of identification negate previous experience if a current exchange is nonexistent? if that is the case there's a LOT of false advertising in this place. just saying. porcelaine

Hierodule -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:41:12 PM)
I see what you are saying but "submissive" can be use to describe a persons actions and the way the relate to others whether they are partnered or not .You don't have to have a person to submit to to be submissive. Nor do you have to have someone to dominate to have your personality described as dominant. Outside the BDSM world, these words are adjectives that can be used to describe anyone. These words are nouns within BDSM only. Slave is a noun and always has been a noun. A title if you will. You can be a good listener, but that doesn't make you a psychologist.

barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:46:24 PM)
Justme -- you simply seem to be saying cleaning a home is no big deal and you seem to be making an issue that a slave should simply just clean your house because well you do it and its not that big of a deal. To me, it also depends on what you consider a clean home, not a passable home but a clean one. BUT if you do it, then there is no need or want for a slave to do it -- correct? So what is your argument here? What i find amusing is you seem to have it all worked out so i guess the rest of the families in the world whose first complaint usually tends to be getting the housework done must just not be doing it right. I'll be sure to tell them lol. It also depends on the size of a house. Sure if you live in a one - 2 bedroom apartment, its not hard to keep it clean - you take a room a day, and kitchen and bathroom daily with a wipedown. However, the men whom i get involved with don't live in apartments, and so they have had anywhere from 8-32 room homes and that isn't including bathrooms. My former Master's expectations of a clean home went beyond the daily licks and promises, which is why he employed someone to clean his home to his expectations. So yeah, i guess for some the housework isn't all that much. DOn't get me wrong, housework is a fact of life for MOST, however, what i see are Men who want slaves to take over their housework as well as everything else, i.e., the kids, working outside the home etc. As i said, MOST women in the world does this, however, it always amazes me that Men who want slaves many times their first concept is you as a slave will take care of ALL the housework and everything else cause you are a slave and that's what slaves do. That simply isn't true -- slave does not equate MAID - free labor. angel

porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:50:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule I see what you are saying but submissive can be use to describe a persons actions and the way the relate to others whether they are partnerd or not .You don't have to have a person to submit to to be submissive. Nor do you have to have someone to dominate to have you personality described as dominant.Outside the BDSM world, these words are adjectives that can be used to describe anyone. These words are nouns within BDSM only. Slave is a noun and always has been a noun. A title if you will. You can be a good listener, but that doesn't make you a psychologist. both are used as nouns. sorry. otherwise every girl would be a slave and not a bottom, submissive, etc. there are vast differences between the three which was the premise behind defining them. the term unowned slave has been utilized in certain subcultures. although i don't see the same being applied to those who consider themselves submissive or bottoms. while we're on the subject of titles. they really don't hold much water to me. Dominant doesn't mean you have the capacity to dominate. submissive doesn't mean you're willing to yield when asked or instructed. Master doesn't suggest you've mastered anything let alone yourself. nor does slave invite the idea that everything is game. there's always a nice shade of gray in there. but since people are free to call themselves what they wish it isn't something i spend much time fretting over. unlike the noun aficionado's i'm a verb girl. what you call yourself will never mean more than what you are and do. that's where i place my emphasis. the act, not the label. porcelaine

littlewonder -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 1:07:48 PM)
I do have limits. I just tend to find someone whose limits match my own so we don't have this discussion about "no limits". As for housework...I absolutely hate housework. I work all day, I'll be doing college soon, I have a family to care for and all kinds of other problems in my life to top it off. The last thing I want to do is housework. But I agreed to be his slave and so if that's what he wants, that's what he gets. But I also wouldn't be with someone who doesn't care about me that he wouldn't pick up after himself from time to time and help out simply because he's not lazy and does care. Ya know..it always comes down to the same thing I say time and again here...compatibility folks. Talk and get to know each other and find out if you are a match. If you're not..move on. Find someone who does fit.

Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 1:07:57 PM)
quote: Justme -- you simply seem to be saying cleaning a home is no big deal and you seem to be making an issue that a slave should simply just clean your house because well you do it and its not that big of a deal. To me, it also depends on what you consider a clean home, not a passable home but a clean one. BUT if you do it, then there is no need or want for a slave to do it -- correct? So what is your argument here? What i find amusing is you seem to have it all worked out so i guess the rest of the families in the world whose first complaint usually tends to be getting the housework done must just not be doing it right. I'll be sure to tell them lol. It is easy to upset you not? I am not judging about it..just giving my opinion. Families in the world complain? I hardly think most make a drama out of it. Perhaps not the most nice thing to do, but it is not a reason for suicide.

barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 1:22:55 PM)
Justme, umm you do realize this is a DISCUSSION BOARD and simply because something is discussed doesn't mean its a suicidal concept or drama. The topic of this discussion is about slaves and housework. So yeah, one would logically consider what will be discussed is well HOUSEWORK and slaves and that would be THE FOCUS of the thread -- go figure. I don't get your first sentence, whose upset? Its a discussion wherin you are sitting around saying oh its soo easy and if people just did it like i do its no big deal. I disagree, but then again, i talk to women who get very frustrated being required to do all the housework simply because they are called slaves while many times the so called Master sits on his ass and does nothing and then complains when she is tired or exhausted or simply irritated. Luckily, i didn't have a Master like that and he forged much of what i look for in a Man who would be my Master - which means Men who need a slave so they don't have to do their housework or pay for such and see a slave as free labor maid, are usually Men i deem lazy and not worth my time. It doesn't mean i wouldn't do housework, it means i don't become a slave to a Man to BE his maid. angel

tammystarm -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 1:54:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Funnily enough I prefer to have a hand in keeping the home clean, I have no compunction about cleaning the dunny and I prefer to be washing the dishes than putting the buggers away. Mind you I love to cook when I have the time too. I see this part of the housekeeping as me coordinating what needs to be done than wading in (if time allows) to give a hand where necessary. No biggie here but, woe betide a girl who wants to sit about and watch me doing the chores.. That is the wonderful thing about my Master. When i am there, it is just automatic for me to sweep, mop, dust, vaccum, and wash the clothing, i do this because i love Him and want to make His life a bit easier. What is great is that while i start dinner He always is there to help, i love this time not because He is helping but the bonding that occurs while doing so. Yet one more thing that brings us closer.

Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 2:01:54 PM)
Sorry, you sounded upset. I wasn't meaning to make anyone upset. I agree with you on the "become no maid part"..but no need to make a drama about it by making a hard limit as mentioned by the OP. I mean when you chose to be together in a house..you can both do some. But I guess it is a point to be discussed for some. I atleast won't use her to only clean. I prefer to do things together....you get it faster done..and there is more time for real fun. Can understand some hate cleaning. I don't. I have 4 sleeping rooms, a hairy cat...am away for work 12 hours. Hate dust......I clean a lott...even when tired. It is no fun..but no drama either. I do everything...even when I have a slave., I don't mind. But every one can decide for themselves how they devide tasks. But they need to be done. The little time left I ruin here :P Btw there seem to be many male slaves who really like to be maids for cleaning...non sexual. Is that a male thing..or do female slave have this fetish too?

GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 2:17:18 PM)
Personally I like a sub who does housework because it makes my day easier.. and it frees up time for us to play and also for me to work on my businesses. I like to assign tasks and I do things as well ..as a unit... or we cook together as a bonding. it is GOOD time management for me and so I talk to them(potentials) about it..I explain how an why If housework is a limit there has usually been a bad experience or there is an ingrained incorrect belief going on. ONe needs to find out WHY it is a limit. THAT limit can often be dealt with a a new and exciting aspect added to service. House work is also playtime for me...he is an apron and may get used a lot during the day..It can be fun or not..this is jsut my way...just sharing. I think housework has a lot of negative connotations attached to it.. re: gender..roles..over work..ppl who work all day then have this as a 2nd "job" when they get home..women hatining it..men hating it for different reasons..usually having been on overload..experiences from childhood etc..used as punishment etc. There are so many variables here: IS the sub a DO ME? therefore wants his/her fetish served. Will he do it to get to the "good stuff" so then it is not from the heart so ends up unahppy? IS the DOMME simply wanting a free maid? IS this part of the negotiations BEFORE or after? WHat does house work mean?...general to hard core like drains being cleaned out? What is the work load of each? jobs outside the home etc IS the house work used or seen as punishment or humiliation? Each of these then entails a certain type of style of DOM/ME and a style or desire of sub which can or cannot be changed...negotiated If you get a interactive Mistress who enjoys an anticipatory sub and he wishs only quiet humilating objectification it may not work. If you have a baby-girl sub and a hard workgin DOM who needs here ot be amny things..it may not work. .... yet each of these can WORK with COMMUNICATION adn INTO each I believe housework can be introduced if it is a wish of the DOM/ME When I had a POLY home 2nd husband stayed home...HIS work was the home.. cleaning etc and we set it up that he was free to be there I also think a lot of subs have run into this/: "Oh you are sub??... come and clean my kitchen tomorrow".. That is not service/..WHY does he have to or WANT cause he said he is sub That is the same as the "bow down bitch cause you are sub and I am DOM/ME" scenerio...ridiculous it makes so sense to me. HOUSEWORK should/could be done to PLEASE Misress Perhaps many put it as a limit then as they get to know you it all happens I mean many do not think the will do bi things or ass play and eventually do as they trust their LEADER **I do however find it odd and amusing at times that someone who has no limits... could be suffocated and yet not mop my floor..!!![:-]* or be choose to be ass fucked with a cactus* rather than scrub the tub hmmmmmmmmm* we all know they basically do not realize what they are saying..teh RAM-ifications of it...and are quite possibly meaning they are TRY-sexual... GM +note when say baby -girl...hard core...house boy etc it is my idea of it and yours may be dif so no offence intended

SomethingCatchy -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:04:22 PM)
Fast reply - [qoute]BUT if you do it, then there is no need or want for a slave to do it -- correct? So what is your argument here?[/qoute] There are many things people can do themselves that they have others do for them. I'm capable of having a grand old time all by myself giving myself orgasms and sometimes I actually prefer it over sex. However, I still require a man to be good at sex and give it to me when I want, I still require a man to cook me dinner even though I'm an excellent cook myself, and I still require a man to be a companion, even though I already have friends and usually prefer to be by myself anyway. If I can do all of these things for myself, should I deny myself the pleasure of requiring the man in my life to do them for me?

Falkenstein -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:15:11 PM)
Nihilus, I agree with Porcelaine. Living together is about solving problems one would never have alone. So why include potential troubles in a relation when it is easier to avoid them in the first place? Correct me if I am wrong, but you have a quite idealistic and absolute view of M/s relationship. I favor a more epicurian approach. I want the person on my side to be as happy as I can manage. With a submissive woman, this may imply putting her outside her confort zone, ergo in a unpleasant one, or even inflicting her pain. But making her unhappy just because she agreed to be a slave and that a slave has to do this or that, otherwise it is not a "real" -- read "ideal" -- slave? No way. BTW, if we were to poll the submissive women on this forum, I bet more would agree with your philosophy than mine, which frankly would not rob me of my sleep. The point regarding before and after the commitment is moot in my opinion. Maybe she did not think of that potential situation before agreeing to be a slave, or changed her opinion. So what? The dynamics of BDSM do not have to be a one way street, people fluctuate. Let us agree that there are different shades of submission and slavery, and as long as the two partners are happy with their relationship, it is a success. Be seeing you, Henry

CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:43:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fadedshadow if someone's "no limits", does that mean i can stab them repeatedly and all will be fine? Nods.

CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:47:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal But what do you think about somebody who claims they have absolutely no limits, but who refuses to do housework? Sure maybe she or he doesn't have to do it because they bring the maids in once a week, but if someone says that they absolutely won't do housework and then at another time says they have no limits, I say one of those statements is a lie. The thing is, I've never met anybody like that, so I was curious as whether anyone had. i don't. i have twenty-four hours in a given day and i devote my energy to things that bear fruit. why would i contemplate why a person elects to label themselves in a particular manner if i find their perceived contradiction not to my liking? in the grand scheme of things why does it matter? more importantly, with energies devoted to activities such as these, i'm neglecting things i can impact that are more worthwhile considerations. people are always hellbent on figuring out why someone chooses to do something. just accept that's their schtick and if it isn't yours move on. you can never know. you're not in their head. porcelaine If you don't care to think about the question, that's fine, but then why respond in a thread that so doesn't interest you just to say that the question is fruitless and you refuse to think about it? Where's the fruit? ;) In the grand scheme of things, at least in my grand scheme, absolutely nothing said on this forum "matters." But it does past the time to shoot the bull. :)

CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:49:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress The word slave is entirly defined by the person using the word. But just as an aside, if you are talking about a live in situation and the slave inquestion has no desire to do housework, and you have that desire, then you are very silly to force them. Sure theyll do it for a bit, but the sexiness wears off fast and then you have a disgruntled and sad slave, which is not fun long term, you will have a lot of conversations that begin with "but this is what you signed up for".... This applies to poly as well. So my sugestion is choose carefully, and you will make mistakes at first until to fine tune your radar to what makes a good slave for you. But just know there are people that get incredible amounts of pleasure from service stuff, they do exist, I have one. Look for those, and dont try to force any one in to anything long term that is not what they get pleasure from unless you yourself are happy being unhappy.. This was a great message. My experience agrees with every piece of advice you gave in it. :)

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