RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (Full Version)

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spookyfe -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 3:09:02 AM)

I dont have lilits because i dont know where they are yet have found one possible onne master takes me slowly further but we connect so well he just knows when hes close.   and i do the housework 



CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:10:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

No, but meeting such a person isn't really required to understand what's going on. Just go and do a search over on the other side for female slaves, 18-25, seeking dominant male partners. Clearly there is no implication of ANYTHING... no lifestyle, no TPE, no 24x7. Older age brackets tend to bring more seriousness to it, but still it's all over the map. In my mind, "slave" is just the fashionable way to say "sub" or more likely "bottom" now.


All right, I see what you mean. Christ, it's dismal demographic, at least on this website! Slave is the word of choice, and quite clearly misapplied in many cases.

"No limits" is not a very popular phrase in that demographic, actually. Maybe that's more of a guy term? I saw two profiles (out of about the 150 I read) that used that phrase. One was a standard scammer, rotely repeating whatever s/he thought the male audience would want to hear. The other was...quite genuine, in all the ways I know how to discern that, but she did seem very focused on the sexual/play aspects. I ddn't get any impression of how she would feel about the non-sexplay aspects of slavery or if she'd even considered them.



CaringandReal -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:20:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

... I found the whole issue of 'slave' vs. 'submissive' so distracting and irrelevant that I stopped using -either- term, and started calling all of those who yield to the dynamic in our household "servants" -- which eliminated the whole issue of whether either is better than the other or more dedicated or -whatever-.



Interesting! had been wondering why you used the term "servant," but wasn't sure it'd be polite to ask (you don't strike me as the huffy sort, but many times people get huffy and defensive if you ask them about their word choices). What a great reason for selecting that term! It made me laugh. I agree that the whole slave/submissive question is very confusing. I think of myself as both, and it took me a number of years to understand that some people made distinctions between the two words, and then even more time to grasp what all those distinctions were.



porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:26:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Maybe it is to expensive in the USA, but what about having a cleaning lady or a maid?
A person who comes for a few hours a week and tidy up your place. if she is smart and reliable, she can even do the shopping of groceries and other household stuff, (except meat, fish and veggies, because buying the food is a part of cooking, and I cook), bring your shirts to the cleaners...

I know it has nothing to do with your no limits question, but I find that a woman (sub, slave, pet, whatever) will provide better sex if she can drive straight from work without stopping at the supermarket first and have one hour to make herself beautiful and in the mood instead of cleaning the breakfeast table and tidying the living room.


i'm going to blame my coffee for the big grin i'm wearing as i read your post. alas fantasies abound about these things. if i'm doing the domestic act you'd better believe it is more akin to martha stewart than june cleaver. however, this is why both parties should communicate to see where each stand on subjects such as this. i pay great attention to the gentleman's lifestyle and the things he enjoys. because i'm innately aware my tastes are not suitable for most and i prefer to stick to those with a similar bent. it usually works much better that way.

porcelaine



tammystarm -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:35:55 AM)

doesnt anyone find the no housework hard limit as funny,,,, sighs i must be a geek........ smiles
ok back on my knees scrubbin' da floors... Yes Master i got over there, what Yes i shall do it again

(thinking there are such better uses for me!!!, but i love to take care of Him and His)



Missokyst -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:38:51 AM)

Perhaps they are Odalisques?



porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 8:45:27 AM)

or simply lead lifestyles that may not be appealing to others. careers and outside responsibilities can usher in different exchanges and conveniences. it is all part of choice.

i speak to men who've been bachelors for years but are unable to prepare a meal for themselves. they eat out everyday, which i find bizarre, but it is normal for them.

perhaps we're all seeds that were planted and one day we sprang up as slaves. yeah, that's it. life before this never existed. [;)]

porcelaine



LaTigresse -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 10:19:00 AM)

I am a dominant...........I want to have household chores as a hard limit for myself.....[:D]



IronBear -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 10:38:29 AM)

Funnily enough I prefer to have a hand in keeping the home clean, I have no compunction about cleaning the dunny and I prefer to be washing the dishes than putting the buggers away. Mind you I love to cook when I have the time too. I see this part of the housekeeping as me coordinating what needs to be done than wading in (if time allows) to give a hand where necessary. No biggie here but, woe betide a girl who wants to sit about and watch me doing the chores.. 



NihilusZero -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 10:41:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

a slave that prefers a situation that wasn't heavily slanted on domesticity would be ill advised to pair with a dominant desiring this unless she's willing to change for him. slavery isn't a one size fits all. compatibility is always a factor that must be taken into consideration. regardless of whether one guides or kneels.


I'm not sure I see the point here. Genuine compatibility, I would think, is to be measured not in the multitude of potentially uncomfortable little things, but on seeking a mutual direction, admiration, respect and attraction. Even in the best of paintings, there will be tasks/requirements that are uncomfortable for the slave.

I understand, in theory, that choosing a compatible mate is always frugal, but that one (a slave, particularly) should use/see it as a way to be able to avoid actually being in situations where they would have to act like their desire for service is a greater priority than yielding to their discomfort seems kind of...cheap.

Actually, I think slavery is 'one size fits all', and it's just the people who choose to wear it one way or another. The reason I say this is because once the relationship is set...once there has been a commitment by the slave to enter willingly into that role, the entire point is for the slavery to be the main focus...through discomfort, through impermanent pain, through whimsy, through preference.

I'm not sure how "Maybe you should have found a better partner." is an appropriate response is such situations above "Perhaps you do not have the mettle to act the role of a no-limits slave, rather than say it." And, sure, the slave could be in a situation where they will inevitably be unhappy and should figure out how to address that properly and make a request for release, but "slavery" (in terms of the slave's natural predisposition to obey, period) is not something to be triggered by the M-type. Slaves that are like sitting cars that must have their ignition turned before they can be expected to act like slaves (running cars) do not seem to exhibit a slave mentality, it seems to me.



NihilusZero -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 10:53:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KateyCaine

If a sub does indeed have a problem with the concept of housework, then that IS a limit in itself, just as electricity is a VERY hard limit for me, and needs to be communicated at the outset.


There are "limits" or exemptions/refusals that are born out of a genuinely compromised ability to perform the tasks (severe health factors, severe psychological factors) and then there are "limits" or exemptions/refusals that are born out of the s-type's whimsical dislike for the task.

The "do me" subs that Davan referenced are the sort who will more often than not try to shove the latter examples into qualifying under the same parameters as the former grouping, as if all it should take is affirming a more fervent dislike for something in order to make it magically something the M-type should absolve them from responsibility of doing.

slave: "I don't like vacuuming."
Master: "I know this. I'm telling you to vacuum the living room right now anyway."
slave: "But I really, really, really, really, don't like vacuuming!"
Master: "Oh! "Really, really, really, really"? Well, I didn't realize! You're excused, then."

[8|]



porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 10:57:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

I'm not sure I see the point here. Genuine compatibility, I would think, is to be measured not in the multitude of potentially uncomfortable little things, but on seeking a mutual direction, admiration, respect and attraction. Even in the best of paintings, there will be tasks/requirements that are uncomfortable for the slave.


true but on a fundamental level there must be common denominators. otherwise we'd all partner based upon the premise of one being dominant and the submissive. we each view compatibility under different lenses. what you might consider an issue might be of no concern to the next person. in all situations there will be discomfort and a host of situations that one cannot predict or prepare for. this exists in all forms of relations whether it is founded upon the tenets of an exchange or not.

quote:

I understand, in theory, that choosing a compatible mate is always frugal, but that one (a slave, particularly) should use/see it as a way to be able to avoid actually being in situations where they would have to act like their desire for service is a greater priority than yielding to their discomfort seems kind of...cheap.


you cannot have it both ways. we're people underneath these adornments. there is a reason you chose the person you're with presently and definitive reasons why others did not meet your standard. to assume that the other person doesn't have a similar criteria is naive. everyone has preferences. whether they are deal breakers or not is the question.

quote:

Actually, I think slavery is 'one size fits all', and it's just the people who choose to wear it one way or another. The reason I say this is because once the relationship is set...once there has been a commitment by the slave to enter willingly into that role, the entire point is for the slavery to be the main focus...through discomfort, through impermanent pain, through whimsy, through preference.


i agree with this but until such a commitment has been undertaken no agreement exists. i believe we both concur that making a wise choice on both ends is imperative. but once that has occurred she should be fully invested in servitude.

quote:

I'm not sure how "Maybe you should have found a better partner." is an appropriate response is such situations above "Perhaps you do not have the mettle to act the role of a no-limits slave, rather than say it." And, sure, the slave could be in a situation where they will inevitably be unhappy and should figure out how to address that properly and make a request for release, but "slavery" (in terms of the slave's natural predisposition to obey, period) is not something to be triggered by the M-type. Slaves that are like sitting cars that must have their ignition turned before they can be expected to act like slaves (running cars) do not seem to exhibit a slave mentality, it seems to me.


i believe obedience stems from something outside of the M-type in all honesty. her willingness to adhere to him and the standard he provides will remain as long as that exceeds the other things that would cause her to think and feel differently. everyone approaches slavery from a different mindset. if the above situation resulted in failure both parties need to examine themselves to determine how that came to pass. i will not say the full responsibility falls upon the slave. after all, the M-type accepted her and one would think he did his homework before doing so.

in a perfect world things would be kosher and we'd get what we want and issues like this wouldn't crop up. but we have been bred in a society and you're taking people outside of that and introducing them to a different way of being. unlike some i have no desire to appeal to most. that is ridiculous at best and supremely arrogant. i respect personal choice and the preferences we each have and understand that my background and behavior will be desired by some and the exact opposite of what others want and need in their lives.

that doesn't negate the ability to yield or to surrender all. i simply cut to the chase and don't pretty the whole process up. i can only be me. whether that is what He wants is the question. but trying to fit myself into some perceived idea of what a slave should or shouldn't be is false. after all, i thought the goal in all of this was authentic servitude. which simply means that the truth isn't always what we'd want to hear and see, but it is a truth i stand upon transparently without shame. it is far better than becoming a sloganesque lie.

porcelaine



Hierodule -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 11:24:10 AM)

I think the desire to serve and to give up your freedom is something that is natural certain people. But I also think it is unrealistic to expect anyone to be a "perfect slave" right out of the box. Thats why its important to find someone who you are compatible with, someone you love, first. If you both love each other, and the slave is willing to surender, eventually trust will erode some limits.But it should start from a place of common desire for the same end result.



NihilusZero -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 11:26:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

true but on a fundamental level there must be common denominators. otherwise we'd all partner based upon the premise of one being dominant and the submissive. we each view compatibility under different lenses. what you might consider an issue might be of no concern to the next person. in all situations there will be discomfort and a host of situations that one cannot predict or prepare from. this exists in all forms of relations whether it is founded upon the tenets of an exchange or not.

Agreed. I personally find a big divide in the issue happens to be if these issues are happening before a slave makes the commitment to a relationship or after the commitment has been made.

If the slave wants to describe him/herself as "no limits" but refuses to do housework and at least advertises this before hand, I have no qualms (although I'll privately roll my eyes and scratch my head).

If the slave is making these exemptions once in the relationship and starts treating preference as an acceptable quality to disqualify something from the list of things they'd be required to do (you know, as a slave and all), then I'm seeing a bigger issue in where their head is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

you cannot have it both ways. we're people underneath these adornments. there is a reason you chose the person you're with presently and definitive reasons why others did not meet your standard. to assume that the other person doesn't have a similar criteria is naive. everyone has preferences. whether they are deal breakers or not is the question.

Sure. And I suppose all this comes down to a grouping of different interpretations of what responsibilities "slavery" will entail, but I find it extremely difficult to imagine the sort of person who would envision the role of a slave as that where they can excuse themselves from obeying for whimsy's sake.

I'm not arguing it can't happen. I'm just saying it becomes laughable when some people's view of "slavery" is "slavery when it suits me". I don't think expecting a standard of trying to act out a role one has chosen (in any part of life) is something outlandish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

i agree with this but until such a commitment has been undertaken no agreement exists. i believe we both concur that making a wise choice on both ends is imperative. but once that has occurred she should be fully invested in servitude.

Then we are in harmonious agreement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

i believe obedience stems from something outside of the M-type in all honesty. her willingness to adhere to him and the standard he provides will remain as long at that exceeds the other things that would cause her to think and feel differently. everyone approaches slavery from a different mindset. if the above situation resulted in failure both parties need to examine themselves to determine how that came to pass. i will not say the full responsibility falls upon the slave. after all, the M-type accepted her and one would think he did his homework before doing so.

The potential failure of the relationship would certainly be upon both shoulders, yes. And, certainly we're talking about an environment in which the M-type has not provided enough reinforcement to where the slave is appropriately obeying, but what if the parameters the slave expects are those that would make the M/s dynamic silly?

Take a run of the mill relationship (where both parties had entered a monogamous role) where partner A is unhappy and not putting effort into it because he/she is not given freedom to have casual sexual encounters with other people. Would we say this is a situation in which partner B is responsible for not providing an environment for partner B to be happy, and therefore just as big a part of the problem as partner A?

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

in a perfect world things would be kosher and we'd get what we want and issues like this wouldn't crop up. but we have been bred in a society and you're taking people outside of that and introducing them to a different way of being.

The way you say this, it seems to suggest the onus of responsibility is somehow on the M-type to be responsible for the decision of the slave to not just to be a "slave" in their relationship, but a "slave" period. People who would describe themselves as a slave and seek to play such a role introduce themselves into a "different way of being" and are responsible for their own ability (or inability) to live according to the precepts they've chosen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

but trying to fit myself into some perceived idea of what a slave should or shouldn't be is false.

Is it? Are there no standards to which a slave should hold themselves to? It's a role of personal responsibility. Other roles have at least loose universal standards. Parent. Friend. Mentor.

Maybe some days , though I've chosen to be a bartender, I'd like to pretend it wasn't part of my expected responsibilities to make frozen drinks (especially multiple at a time with only one blender) but that is an expected standard. What does it say for me to hold up such a title if I feel I'm free to waive some of my expected responsibilities for having it just because (essentially) "I don't feel like it"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

after all, i thought the goal in all of this was authentic servitude. which simply means that the truth isn't always what we'd want to hear and see, but it is a truth i stand upon transparently without shame. it is far better than becoming a sloganesque lie.


I suppose, superficially, an M/s relationship where the slave has never been asked to do something uncomfortable (and therefore can obey with total fluidity) would just like an M/s relationship where the slave has consisitently been asked to do uncomfortable things yet has executed them unflinchingly and honorably because of his/her devotion both to the relationship and to the M-type.

But they wouldn't actually be the same, would they?



NihilusZero -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 11:32:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

I think the desire to serve and to give up your freedom is something that is natural certain people. But I also think it is unrealistic to expect anyone to be a "perfect slave" right out of the box.

Really? When an employer hires a car mechanic, let's say...someone who has advertised themselves as a car mechanic on their resume; should the employer not expect the employee to act like one "right out of the box"? To show competency in car mechanics, to understand the use of tools and know at least the basic systems and how they word?

And, while I suppose every M-type desires different minor quirks from his/her slave, I should think that the ability of the slave to continually and properly obey under discomfort to be a pretty universal prerequisite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

Thats why its important to find someone who you are compatible with, someone you love, first. If you both love each other, and the slave is willing to surender, eventually trust will erode some limits.But it should start from a place of common desire for the same end result.

Remember, though, we're talking about "limits" of preference. "Limits" of "[whine] I just don't feel like it!".



porcelaine -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 11:34:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

I think the desire to serve and to give up your freedom is something that is natural certain people. But I also think it is unrealistic to expect anyone to be a "perfect slave" right out of the box. Thats why its important to find someone who you are compatible with, someone you love, first. If you both love each other, and the slave is willing to surender, eventually trust will erode some limits.But it should start from a place of common desire for the same end result.


i view the period of getting acquainted as an opportunity to do such. i weigh the situation as a whole and consider it from various angles. while we have utilized housekeeping as a criteria in this example, i believe the concept is the same. i place a huge burden on the slave to qualify the buyer and to be perfectly clear that He offers the kind of service she is willing to abide by. i view things in a state of permanence and don't enter into agreements with exit clauses in mind.

from the moment she accepts what He offers she should be willing to acquiesce. if she went in knowing certain requirements existed beforehand and wasn't deterred by such, she should comply as previously agreed. i have never agreed with situations where complaints and resistant/reactant behavior occurs after the fact. especially if she knew going in what was to be expected.

love is not an inspiration for my desire to yield nor serve. nor does it inspire the core of my obedience. i view it as a wonderful component, a slice if you will of the proverbial submissive pie. i will serve Him without loving Him. if i cannot do that i'm in the wrong place.

nonetheless i recognize the person that i am and the life experiences i come equipped with. i'm attracted to a particular style of man with defined characteristics and mannerisms that i find appealing. His style of dominance is one that i respond well to. i'm unwilling to set that aside merely to serve "someOne." temperance and patience are important factors of the search process and should be duly exercised.

porcelaine



Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 11:56:41 AM)

Home cleaning is not that much work. In the time you talk with them about doing it...it could have been finished.
IF they live here...they help..period.

btw...My pc, tv and home theatre..I clean myself... ;)



IronBear -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:01:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

I think the desire to serve and to give up your freedom is something that is natural certain people. But I also think it is unrealistic to expect anyone to be a "perfect slave" right out of the box. Thats why its important to find someone who you are compatible with, someone you love, first. If you both love each other, and the slave is willing to surender, eventually trust will erode some limits.But it should start from a place of common desire for the same end result.


It would appear that you need to make some sort of definition about what you mean by love. What you say may well ring perfectly true if you look at what appears to be the majority of sub/slaves seeking Masters and are also seeking a life partner or romantic relationship. However, there are those who are ready to enter a poly home for example or a relationship dynamic based on M/s or D/s without the romantic aspect. Granted most Masters or Dominants will form some type of bond which has love within it but not necessarily the romantic aspect of BF/gf.

Perhaps I am in error here however I do feel that the harping on the romantic love in so many posts can be misleading especially for those new to kink and lead one or three to the belief that when they find a sub/slave partner, they are also looking at a long term romantic relationship/wedding eventually.



Justme696 -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:07:58 PM)

quote:

Perhaps I am in error here however I do feel that the harping on the romantic love in so many posts can be misleading especially for those new to kink and lead one or three to the belief that when they find a sub/slave partner, they are also looking at a long term romantic relationship/wedding eventually.


Good point I know several subs/slaves who just want the guidance...and give respect...but have no need for the love in that relation.
Not saying it will be with out emotions...but it is not love.



barelynangel -> RE: No Limits Slaves Who Say They Won't Do Housework (10/4/2009 12:09:21 PM)

Lord people would have had their mouths dropping open if they knew me as a slave. My former Master allowed me to work because he knew i enjoyed it, we had a nanny for the twins and people who came in to do the bulk and most of the housework, since we didn't have live in staff we did do some of the licks and promises as does any person who lives in a home does. He didn't take me as slave because he needed or wanted a maid for his home because he was too lazy to do it or didn't want to for whatever reason (he actually was better at the domestic stuff then i ever was lol) -- he paid for that simply because he wanted me free to have my attention focused pretty much on him. He didn't want me exhausted from working all day and then coming home nd having to be the maid and nanny. He also knew i wouldn't have been happy being a domestic slave all day. If i have an option NOT to do housework, damn straight i will say no lol.

Would i have done it -- honestly, i don't know. Now having had my fill of working lol, i could, but back then, i doubt it, and eventually the resentment would have shown itself and effected our relationship. To me, i think too many men see "slaves" as free labor and while they want the free labor they also want her looking fine, keeping up all the other stuff, and being a sex goddess. My Master to me as a slave for a certain reason and it wasn't to be his live-in free labor maid at all. He enjoyed me fresh and full of energy and chose things for me that gave him pleasure and made sacrifices in other areas (i.e., paying for people to come in and clean, cook and take care of the kids) so he could enjoy what he took me as a slave for.

But i also wasn't a no limits slave, grins, i said no, hell, no, and call the white coats plenty of times -- the difference is, if he chose for me to do it, eventually i probably would end up doing it -- i didn't have to like it, consent to it, etc etc. I simply had to obey.

Luckily, whether or not i would have existed fof 8 years as his slave if my life was staying at home cleaning and being a nanny all day to the twins, never came to a decision of sorts.

Now, i would LOVE to be an at home slave, however, i don't think i would enjoy having to grind every day cleaning a home.

angel



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