Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:23:17 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Without arguing the perception, which I think is probably exaggerated but not without a kernel of truth to it, I seriously doubt that it has much of anything at all to do with the Olympics per se. That is the least of the GOP's concerns. I think it has rather to do with the political capital spent, and lost as a result of the failure, weakening Obama's ability to drive through programs to which the GOP is more fundamentally opposed (e.g., the "public option" in health care).

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/5/2009 10:24:43 AM >

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:24:11 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
In that case Obama should fire his ass for insubordination. oh and by the way, the AFP, AP, Reuters, LA times and NY times Huff post are all reporting on the story.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:26:57 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Amen. People of all stripes to the right of Obama see his ideas as so dangerous that they instinctively see anything that appears to weaken him as a victory for main street.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Without arguing the perception, which I think is probably exaggerated but not without a kernel of truth to it, I seriously doubt that it has much of anything at all to do with the Olympics per se. That is the least of the GOP's concerns. I think it has rather to do with the political capital spent, and lost as a result of the failure, weakening Obama's ability to drive through programs to which the GOP is more fundamentally opposed (e.g., the "public option" in health care).

K.







_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:27:59 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with the administration. This is about people who cheer at the fact that the administration is facing serious problems. So, what's YOUR explanation for applauding with glee when bad shit happens? Is it a sign of mental imbalance, lack of maturity, and moral ineptitude? I reckon it is.


Yes - I think it demonstrates the same "mental imbalance, lack of maturity, and moral ineptitude" as does mocking any individual or political figure in lieu of presenting an counter argument documenting factual evidence. But you can't expect ignorant people to use that tactic - they come unarmed to the debate.

However in this case its interesting to note that not even the author is saying that the critics or even those "applauding" are incorrect. They just say they shouldn't disagree or be so vocal when their side of the issue proves to be correct.

Why is that? Pretty simple really - what other argument is possible? What Democratic action has even a trend of success to point to?

The Obama Administration's failure to date is somehow the result of some self fulfilling prophecy of those without the power to slow it down by filibuster? That is a very defeatist position and speaks of the weakness of the position of those needed it to rationalize a reason to point to someone else to blame.

I don't want Obama's Administration to fail because he and the Democratic Party have a filibuster proof majority. I want it to fail because, in my opinion, it is wrong. I am happy and will continue to applaud if this Administration's failure results in programs not being implemented that aren't productive or counter intuitive to correcting current economic conditions. The Chicago Olympics is but one of example of that. No Olympic effort since 1984 came in at cost and made a profit. That result was based upon private sector initiative. There was little of that in the Chicago presentation. I am happy and applauding that my tax money won't be used to fund a Chicago political machine that has historically defined corrupt, local politics. I do so if and when they fail on similarly poorly thought out plans because of my previously disclosed abhorrence of wasted resources.

You may feel differently so feel free to defend them; but I don't have any expectations nor can I point to anything generated from the Republican Party that also hasn't contributed to wasting resources. The difference is, you see a difference in the Parties, assuming that disagreement with the one currently in power is the focus. You now defend and/or promote issues like Gitmo's incarceration, escalation in Afghanistan, or even a sitting President taking three jumbo jets and two entourages from Washington to Denmark for a 5 minute speech. The idea that you'd be championing a similar effort by any Republican administration, pointing to it similarly as an example of the "DNC rooting against America" is laughable.

Disagreement in this case may look Party specific because the Democrats control both Houses of Congress and the Presidency. They 'own' the results to date. No amount of pre-election rhetoric can change that fact. However, it is incidental concerning my position. My overall lack of confidence in the current political system which is more fundamentally based. "Rooting FOR America" is impossible when actions and implemented policy is the result, bought and paid for, by PAC special interest contributions.

Of course you can't belief that I or any of the others who have a similar position aren't political party motivated because that's the position from which you determine most, if not all, positions that you support. To get another idea you'd have to consider a perspective that you can't relate. I think the author of the article has that same paranoid perspective.

Can't help him, or you.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:31:19 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Gen McChrystal's views on this administration fit perfectly within with this discussion because no one is rooting against America, the premise is wildly flawed. People like Gen McChrystal and myself are rooting for Obama's failure so that the nation may be saved.


ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales



If you can't see the difference between speaking up against a policy one disagrees with and cheering gleefully when America has bad news, then there is nothing I can do to open your eyes. It seems that what you are going to try to do is use the same tactic , "They say anytime anyone critisizes Obama they're rooting against America" in this matter as the right has used before in their "They say every time someone critisizes Obama it's racist."

Again, no one said that this general was rooting for America to fail. Then again, he wasn't jumping up and applauding at such things as losing the olympics and continuing economic problems.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:37:00 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
The head of Brazil Central bank backs RIOS bid and showed up to present- 11 mins in the presentation link on the other thread.

Brazil Central BANK.       !

Politicians do not rule us-   the central banks do.

Incidentally-I pointed this out to Bob Chapman-  and the piece is a link in his newsletter.   (yes he does many links from all over the world)

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:43:07 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Anyone who is a partisan is to be demonized... because now that Bush is history no one can ever breathe a word against a president ever again, for any reason (until next time a Republican holds that office).

Yeah... the office must be respected now.

The Democrat spin has been that anyone who breathes a word of opposition to Barack Obama is a racist, and now the Democrats are simply expanding on that same old, tired, worn out theme. Racist AND un-American is the in spin...  



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:47:06 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
Your post above illustrates perfectly why at times, it gets really hard not to paint all right-wingers with the same brush  .

_____________________________



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:49:24 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Anyone who is a partisan is to be demonized... because now that Bush is history no one can ever breathe a word against a president ever again, for any reason (until next time a Republican holds that office).

Yeah... the office must be respected now.

The Democrat spin has been that anyone who breathes a word of opposition to Barack Obama is a racist, and now the Democrats are simply expanding on that same old, tired, worn out theme. Racist AND un-American is the in spin...


I don't know what is more....remarkable. That you seem to believe that nonsense or that you expect anyone else to believe it. No one has said "Don't critisize the president"....some HAVE asked that that critisism not take the form of swastikas, Obama as witch doctor posters or depictions of the white house lawn as a watermelon patch. Likewise, no one has said that being against the president's policies. What would be nice is if some (and I do mean some, not all) stopped reacting to every rotten thing that happens in this country as if it were a personal victory because it may be able to be used to bring them back into power.

Does it ever get tiring playing the victim card?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 10:56:35 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Does it ever get tiring playing the victim card?
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask this question to those who use and take as gospel, the "GOP rooting against America" position?

When that kind of marketing campaign is offered in lieu of results you've made yourself a victim by definition. Of course it is an attempt to demonetize the opposition. However, maybe that is the agenda, hoping that nobody will point out the results or those behind them.

Not working yet - but worth a try I guess if after only 9 months the position has gotten so desperate. At least we've moved from "not enough time". I see that as a positive thing.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:03:24 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
"The politics of spite" in The New York Times : "To be sure, while celebrating America's rebuff by the Olympic Committee was puerile, it didn't do any real harm. But the same principle of spite has determined Republican positions on more serious matters, with potentially serious consequences - in particular, in the debate over health care reform."



_____________________________



(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:18:25 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Hey kitten,

Why don't you write the New York Times and ask them, if its just the Republicans who are speaking out against the president... why doesn't he just ignore them and do as he damn well pleases? Because he's got the votes in Congress.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:19:45 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

If you can't see the difference between speaking up against a policy one disagrees with and cheering gleefully when America has bad news, then there is nothing I can do to open your eyes.

Try opening your own, then. It is far from carved in stone that being spared the considerable financial risk that would have attended hosting the Olympics in 2016 is "bad news" for America. So, your ugly accusation has no basis in fact.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/5/2009 11:50:03 AM >

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:21:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
"The politics of spite" in The New York Times : "To be sure, while celebrating America's rebuff by the Olympic Committee was puerile, it didn't do any real harm. But the same principle of spite has determined Republican positions on more serious matters, with potentially serious consequences - in particular, in the debate over health care reform."


An "Op-Ed Columnist" is a definitive source of opinion. Yet, look at the language: the episode illustrated an essential truth about the state of American politics: at this point, the guiding principle of one of our nation’s two great political parties is spite pure and simple. "Essential truth" sounds like a fact has been provided yet, like the banner for the article, it's pure opinion.

I guess those subscribing to that position need look no further for their 'truth'; preferring to accuse as "rooting against America" anyone not seeing is as truth or fact.

Yup - a victim's mentality exposed.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:21:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hey kitten,

Why don't you write the New York Times and ask them, if its just the Republicans who are speaking out against the president... why doesn't he just ignore them and do as he damn well pleases? Because he's got the votes in Congress.


Why do you keep perpetrating these falsehoods?


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:23:02 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
Have you READ the OP, Sanity? I'm starting to wonder whether you read anything at all. Recently, ever one of your posts has been a blatant attempt at derailing. This isn't about criticism of the president, or of his decisions: nobody has argued that constructive criticism is a bad thing. This is about frikkin partisan bullshit and cheerleading for bad things to happen just because the GOP is in a fucking mess and has zero direction, zero ideas, and absolutely no talent to speak of  .

_____________________________



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:24:10 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Yup - a victim's mentality exposed.


Yours.

_____________________________



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:32:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2178548/mpage_1/key_Cheney/tm.htm#2178586

From the mouths of babes and sucklings......

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:32:57 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

That's exactly what I said, back in post 27.

Now we're in agreement, which is always nice.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
This is about frikkin partisan bullshit


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:39:29 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Are you sayin' that the Blue Dog Democrats are as subhuman as ya'all are trying to make the Republicans out to be, Ron?


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hey kitten,

Why don't you write the New York Times and ask them, if its just the Republicans who are speaking out against the president... why doesn't he just ignore them and do as he damn well pleases? Because he's got the votes in Congress.


Why do you keep perpetrating these falsehoods?



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094