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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:42:02 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nope, and I ain't trying to make anyone out to be sub-human, they're doing that without any assistance from me.

Ron

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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:48:07 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
frikkin partisan bullshit and cheerleading
Exactly the rhetoric of the OP-ED. There is nothing substantive to report so there is a need to make Obama and his Administration a 'victim' of the Republicans. Only lock-step administration apologists, like Paul Krugman, would give this position as fact. Results are so bad with all the political party ducks in a row in Congress and the White House that SOMEBODY has to be at fault. Pointing to a Party out of power makes the argument toothless. Painting all dissension similarly creates a land mind.

The general publics 'Job Approval' rating of the Administration is down dramatically. Is this also the fault of Republicans? Who will be pointed to for blame when polls point to a majority in agreement with dissension?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Yup - a victim's mentality exposed.
Yours.

More OP-ED kitty with no basis in fact.
You 'kill' me, you really do! THANKS!

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:50:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		lol, dramatic? who is op-eding now? need some more time?

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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:57:09 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

lol, dramatic? who is op-eding now? need some more time?


Merc is frequently hysterical these days - I think Obama is giving him a nervous breakdown  .

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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:57:38 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Anyone who is a partisan is to be demonized... because now that Bush is history no one can ever breathe a word against a president ever again, for any reason (until next time a Republican holds that office).

Yeah... the office must be respected now.

The Democrat spin has been that anyone who breathes a word of opposition to Barack Obama is a racist, and now the Democrats are simply expanding on that same old, tired, worn out theme. Racist AND un-American is the in spin...  



Because, of course, there was none of that going on during the previous administation's eight years in office, was there? Not even the tiniest little hint. All of that "why do you hate America" crap connecting any criticism of the unelected wanker in the White House with treason was just a hallucination experienced by all the liberals. They'd probably been reading too much Phillip K Dick.

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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:58:14 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Try opening your own, then. It is far from carved in stone that being spared the considerable financial risk that would have attended hosting the Olympics in 2016 is "bad news" for America. So, your ugly accusation has no basis in fact. Or is the "bad news" simply (in your view) that Obama was rebuffed?


So what we are supposed to believe is that Chicago began planning for an Olympic bid in such total secrecy that the republicans were completely unaware of it until Obama said he was going to go to the presentation? Or did I miss the outcry from our good bretheren on the right about the wastefulness of it, the bad idea that was the olympic games? Of course it couldn't have been that there was a full awareness that Chicago was planning to bid for the Olympics and there was no repulican outcry until it became a chance to score political points however it turned out? Nahhh...couldn't be. No reasonable person could even get the perception of that, right?

It's not that I have objections to scoring political points. I think this whole "can't be partisan" thing is getting severly overworked on both sides. But I still say that there is a perception that, at this point in time, there are many repbulicans who would rather see the country get worse and get rid of Obama in the next election than see the country get better and have to deal with him another four years. If that is not a correct perception, I still say that the GOP needs to address it or it will become a very detrimental issue to their attempts to regain power in '10 and '12.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 11:58:34 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

we are supposed to believe is that Chicago began planning for an Olympic bid in such total secrecy that the republicans were completely unaware of it until Obama said he was going to go to the presentation? Or did I miss the outcry from our good bretheren on the right about the wastefulness of it, the bad idea that was the olympic games?
What a smoke-screen this is. When Salt Lake or any other city made a presentation prior to this it was local; local politicians, local presentation. Obama made it his issue joining them. He made it politically national. He provided the ability to point to is as a waste of Presidential influence and resource. I seem to recall that two weeks before putting together the last minute trip the position given by the Administration was he wasn't going. Once he made the decision to go, I would assume, the intelligent man that he is, he thought about the political repercussions and the ammunition he supplied to those who do have an agenda of seeing this Administration fail.

However, that doesn't make everyone who points out that it was a mistake and wrong "rooting against America". Unless you include yourself in that group.

A person, of any political affiliation, having the ability to take and analyze the issues and actions taken would come to that same conclusion. Victory or failure; it was not the time and not the appropriate use of Presidential influence or resource. Too much was at risk for the Administration with so little potential return it causes you to consider if the associated 'intelligence' was overstated. I don't think it was, however I do think, once again, Obama's lack of political and administration experience has come into play.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
lol, dramatic? who is op-eding now? need some more time?

No, my definition is confirmed by the link I provided.

January 27, 2009 63.3% 'approval' 20% 'disapproval' a 43+ point spread that actually went up from there a few weeks into the Administration. Compared to the current numbers; 52% approval and 41.2% disapproval or a 10.8% spread. Those are the facts supporting my use of "dramatic". If that change isn't 'dramatic' enough for you, what would be your definition of such a drastic change? Obama hasn't enough time, or he didn't know it was this bad, or Bush made it worse after he left office?

Maybe I missed it, did Krugman, or anyone, provide similar information to back up their OP-ED?

Take as much time as you need...


< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/5/2009 12:09:25 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:01:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, Merc and I have been disagreeing alot lately in the stream of conciousness things, but in terms of final answers, I think we agree more than disagree.

I thought that only liberals were running scared and horrified by the obvious and heineous slaughter that the neo-cons are going to achieve in the next election cycle (kinda reminds you of the Jehovah's Witnesses and how they have had to put off the end of the world for a while, a couple times).

I doubt that Merc or nbeth is in imminent apoplexy though.

LOL.

Ron

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:03:42 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
lol, dramatic? who is op-eding now? need some more time?

No, my definition is confirmed by the link I provided.

January 27, 2009 63.3% 'approval' 20% 'disapproval' a 43+ point spread that actually went up from there a few weeks into the Administration. Compared to the current numbers; 52% approval and 41.2% disapproval or a 10.8% spread. Those are the facts supporting my use of "dramatic". If that change isn't 'dramatic' enough for you, what would be your definition of such a drastic change? Obama hasn't enough time, or he didn't know it was this bad, or Bush made it worse after he left office?

Maybe I missed it, did Krugman, or anyone, provide similar information to back up their OP-ED?

Take as much time as you need...



ten percent drop in approval ratings with more approving than disaproving is not dramatic, and the other spread is useful in laying odds and that's about it, when it comes to politics.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:04:41 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I doubt that Merc or nbeth is in imminent apoplexy though.



That's not what it looks like to me: the guy is exploding at the seams with fury (though he was strangely quiet when the previous admin was dragging this country into the toilet). Lou Dobbs isn't good for one's health, quite evidently.

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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:11:26 PM   
Kirata


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I notice that there was nothing whatsoever in your response to support the claim you floated (which my post challenged) that being spared the financial risks of hosting the Olympics in 2016 is in any demonstrably factual sense "bad news" for America.

So, unh, thanks.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/5/2009 12:12:20 PM >

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:14:26 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I notice that there was nothing whatsoever in your response to support the claim you floated (which my post challenged) that being spared the financial risks of hosting the Olympics in 2016 is in any demonstrably factual sense "bad news" for America.

So, unh, thanks.

K.


And I notice that you chose not to address any of the statements I made in my post that supported the actual subject of this thread.

So..uhhhh...thank you too.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:14:36 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I notice that there was nothing whatsoever in your response to support the claim you floated (which my post challenged) that being spared the financial risks of hosting the Olympics in 2016 is in any demonstrably factual sense "bad news" for America.

So, unh, thanks.

K.





To be fair, I don't think Los Angeles or Atlanta made a loss on it.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:15:47 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

doubt that Merc or nbeth is in imminent apoplexy though.
Honored that others are concerned; however the only thing imminent is leaving for Italy in less than 3 weeks.

quote:

ten percent drop in approval ratings with more approving than disapproving is not dramatic, and the other spread is useful in laying odds and that's about it, when it comes to politics.
Ron
Well Ron, I'm okay with how we differ in defining the numbers, if not the 'dramatic' trends they indicate. At least we're working on the same page as a reference, unlike any of the self serving 'Op-Ed' from the NY Times or CM.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:17:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, speaking of italy and polls.....what the fuck is gonna go on with Berlusconi? How you gonna deal with that fuckin' idiot?

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:20:48 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What about taxation? It's sucky, in Italy, for people who dislike "government interference" . Still, it is very beautiful, and the rest-stops on the autostrade are breathtaking :-) .

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:22:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Un altro quartto di l'ambrusco, per favore.

But yeah, moving to a socialist country, I can't figure out Merc's shit sometimes, but hey, his gig, not mine.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:26:08 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

And I notice that you chose not to address any of the statements I made in my post that supported the actual subject of this thread.

My response to the subject of this thread appeared here.

The rest of your post was partisan posturing. I don't recall hearing much about the Democrats pushing Chicago's bid, either. Frankly, I would be inclined to think it was pretty much a non-issue for both sides before the depth of the current economic situation, and more worryingly what may potentially be ahead for us, became clear. But in any case, as I pointed out in my response to the subject of this thread, I don't think the Olympics per se really has much to do with it.

K.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:26:44 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, speaking of italy and polls.....what the fuck is gonna go on with Berlusconi? How you gonna deal with that fuckin' idiot?


Personally, I'm hoping to get invited to his parties!

My sense of Italy politics is that they don't take themselves so seriously. They've had their 'empire' and don't mind being in the backwaters. However a few of my relatives have said that they hope that someday there will be another 'Caesar'.

After a few glasses of wine right from the barrel and some olives & cheese grown on my place; I'm sure I'll adopt the most common Italian position I've heard so far; "If you don't like the current government wait a few weeks and Italy will have another one."

When the 'Swiss Guard' is part of your countries 'Strategic Defense Initiative' you don't take yourself seriously in the international military community.
quote:

What about taxation?
Much better than I was led to believe or thought possible. Adding up all the taxes here in CA versus there; business, personal, real estate, sales, VAT, even fuel; my total tax obligation will be less than it has been here for the past 3 years. Personally I wouldn't have thought that possible, but the offsets allowed for businesses are very extensive.

The business environment is better than I expected or hoped.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/5/2009 12:30:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 12:31:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Let me tell you how it looks from where I sit on one of the worst days I've had in a long time.

Whether the Olympics in Chicago would have made money or not is irrelevant, money would have been spent now. Jobs would have been saved and created now.

Anyone cheering that those jobs weren't saved or created has some explaining to do.

My company has been struggling along for some time. We hadn't laid anyone off but we weren't filling jobs if someone left. We had several preliminary deals for computer work with the Chicago Olympic Committee. We weren't going to get rich and these were deals where we competed hard for the deals and our profit margins would have been very tight but they would have been work for at least the next 2 years. Now we don't have them so I spent the morning laying off the 6 people on my team while the other 2 team leaders did the same to their teams. So 15 people lost their jobs today because of something right wingers celebrated on Friday.

I had never fired or laid anyone off except for cause before today.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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