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RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 2:40:22 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Needing to spin the answer doesn't change it. The answer was off the top of my head, and the reference was what I remember seeing first hand. You assigned "pride" in what I remember; I found it reprehensible. Just like now, in fact more so considering many were drafted into service, the service men and woman deserved better from everyone - even those celebrating their President's failure. How warped and politically motivated must you be to assign your bigoted, party based, prejudices to everyone else?


If you'll go back to my original posting on this matter, Merc, I did not say that the republicans are doing this. I also did not say they weren't. I am saying there is a perception that this is what they are doing and it isn't just the democrats who think so. This is one of those things that the right wing on has tried to ignore as much as they have ignored the fact that, while Obama's approval is going down, their's is not going up. There are many reasons for this. One of them is this very perception and denying that perception exists or is only a construct of "loonie lefties" isn't going to help anything.

The one area I will agree with you upon is that our returning servicemen from Viet Nam deserved better from everyone in this country. They deserved better than the angry demonstrations that greeted them. They deserved better than the lack of care and rehabilitaiton they earned from the government they served. They deserved to be treated as honerable men who's leaders put them into a dishonerable situation. What was done to them was a shame. That we seem to have learned better for our current warriors in Iraq and Afghanistan is a source of pride.

Oh..and Merc..as for your "warped, bigoted and predjudiced" comment...I can remember when you could discuss something without stooping to personal attacks. I may have disagreed wtih you on just about everything, but I respected that in you. I am sorry you have decided to abandon those principals to start personal insults when none have been offered to you.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 2:40:46 PM   
DesiresMerlot


Posts: 9
Joined: 9/27/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
just because both the GOP and Democratic Party is in a fucking mess, and absolutely no talent to speak of  .


Fixed for accuracy.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 2:50:59 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Why would anyone be happy to see the Olympics lost to another country

Unh, because some people (including a lot of Chicagoans) viewed it as a financial gamble that could blow up in our faces. Note, for example, the analysis in Time. What the fuck is so sinister about reasonable people holding different views, and being glad to see them prevail?

K.


I'm not sure who the "our faces" you refer to are, because I checked your profile and you don't live in Chicago.

But the discussion about the games was a different thread and your question is exactly why I posted this.

Why are so many Republicans latching onto this issue other than trying to paint anything Obama does as a failure? 

You and I have no real stake in this, other than a certain sense of national pride if we would have been chosen.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 2:53:27 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I can remember when you could discuss something without stooping to personal attacks.
What you perceive as a personal attack was representing a reaction to your position that the display of ignorance toward returning soldiers from Vietnam was, to quote you; "That's something to be proud of."

It requires a position of bigotry and party prejudice to consider me proud to be witness of such a display. I won't deny your ability to say so; but don't expect silence when you are attempting to represent how I felt then or now.

I don't post for your, or anyone else's, "respect". No need to be sorry if pointing to your false assumptions lost me what I wasn't needing, or seeking, in the first place.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 3:02:52 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Anyone who is a partisan is to be demonized... because now that Bush is history no one can ever breathe a word against a president ever again, for any reason (until next time a Republican holds that office).

Yeah... the office must be respected now.

The Democrat spin has been that anyone who breathes a word of opposition to Barack Obama is a racist, and now the Democrats are simply expanding on that same old, tired, worn out theme. Racist AND un-American is the in spin...  




You know Sanity, you are always the one on other threads, even threads that are not your own, to accuse people of hi-jacking.

Yet here we are.

Can you show me anywhere in the original link where anyone spoke of Afghanistan or racism?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 3:53:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

I cant help but wonder, after reading this thread, and knowing what the OP posted went world wide, what other countries must think of us right now.

Right or wrong, we are a country that is greatly divided. Even the appearance that we are eager for the failures of the man who was voted in must give them lots to laugh about.

I didnt vote Bush in initially. Re-election time came around, and i did then. i didnt like my options, but he seemed like the best man to fit the position with the war.

To applaud a loss by the US to other countries... man... imagine how the other countries must be viewing all this.

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:09:32 PM   
rikigrl


Posts: 203
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I cant help but wonder, after reading this thread, and knowing what the OP posted went world wide, what other countries must think of us right now.

Right or wrong, we are a country that is greatly divided. Even the appearance that we are eager for the failures of the man who was voted in must give them lots to laugh about.

I didnt vote Bush in initially. Re-election time came around, and i did then. i didnt like my options, but he seemed like the best man to fit the position with the war.

To applaud a loss by the US to other countries... man... imagine how the other countries must be viewing all this.


Exactly right tazzy, the world is well aware of the divisions within this country, combine that with the bombing in Atlanta and overzealous security in Salt Lake City and the sum total equals the probability that the U.S.A. will likely not see an Olympics, except on the telly, for a generation at least. 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:10:58 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
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quote:

What you perceive as a personal attack was representing a reaction to your position that the display of ignorance toward returning soldiers from Vietnam was, to quote you; "That's something to be proud of." ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



Then there is a true misunderstanding. I did not in any way mean to suggest you were proud of the way Viet Nam veterans were treated upon their return. My point was, even if one agrees with your principal that they were celebrating America's failure, that it took nearly four decades to see such behaviour again...and that having the worst behaviour in forty years is nothing to be proud of. I was speaking not of you but of those republicans that I do feel have lost sight of the issues in this incredibly polarized environment that seems to be growing on both sides. I am sorry if I miscommunicated that point. I know you better from your postings than to think that you would in any way condone the treatment of our returning veterans from that war. I am disappointed to find you do not know me well enough from mine to realize that.



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:15:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Has there ever been a case where a significant number of americans celebrated the failure of such a endeavor before?
Has there been a case where an American President put himself, or the nation, in a position for this to occur?

Not on the level of the Olympics for sure, but would Vietnam retreat be representative? I'm old enough to remember people "celebrating" that failure; complete with video of soldiers coming back to signs labeling them "baby killers".


Who said anything about the President? Every head of state who was in teh final four spoke this year just as they have every time this has come up during my lifetime, at least.

The right wing celebrated, and yes they celebrated I have the video and the archived blogs posts that prove it, that the city of Chicago didn't get the Olympics and all the economic stimulu sthat comes from such. I'm asking has that ever happened before?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:32:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
START:
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'm not sure who the "our faces" you refer to are, because I checked your profile and you don't live in Chicago.

I'm an American. A portion of that $787 billion stimulus package we're paying for would have been poured into this project.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Why are so many Republicans latching onto this issue other than trying to paint anything Obama does as a failure?

Try to keep up. I already answered that question here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You and I have no real stake in this, other than a certain sense of national pride if we would have been chosen.

GOTO START:

K.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:54:15 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesiresMerlot

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
just because both the GOP and Democratic Party is in a fucking mess, and absolutely no talent to speak of  .


Fixed for accuracy.


Juvenile keyboard commando tactics, and a Republican is behind them.

I rest my case  .

_____________________________



(in reply to DesiresMerlot)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 4:57:23 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		If the US never previously sent a "head of State" how could it have happened before? Would that indicate an intelligence on the part of prior administrations not to involve themselves with local politics, or would you say it pointed to something else? Regarding my reply, I didn't know you were asking a rhetorical question - sorry.

Everyone in all those videos and archived blog posts celebrating was "right wing"? Sets up a vocal, if not large, group of disenfranchised voters for the next election. I'm surprised that in such a short time so many people feel alienated by this Administration and now consider themselves "right wing" in their dissension, but I'll accept your representation speaking for them. I doubt they were directing their celebration toward the disenfranchised of Chicago, but again - based on what you have documented concerning your company, I understand why that is how you took their reaction.

Has one group ever celebrated over the failure of the polarized opposite group? That's a rhetorical question too right? If not, a similar celebration and consequence will occur again tomorrow. Whoever wins the Twins / Tigers game will be celebrating. Whether they consider it at the time or not, the loser's workers and support staff at the losing stadium won't get any additional jobs, income, or benefit because their team lost; different sport, different scale, same celebration and sadness. Was getting the Olympics life or death for Chicago? Like any lost sales pitch, it is sad, but in context of the general US economy, not the saddest thing occurring.

I don't think it makes the 'top 10' of sad things for those currently working for Saturn living in the soon to be ghost town, Spring Hill Tennessee. I bet they are wondering if perhaps the time spent to sell Chicago to the Olympic committee could have been better spend talking to potential Saturn merger partners. After all, as a result of the last bail out, Obama is the de-facto CEO of GM. Maybe the time could have been spent 'selling' Saturn to the Penske group who was looking into acquiring them.

When pictures of them are shown and they speak about wondering what happened to the auto bail out and the Administration's 'plan' for GM - will they be considered part of the "GOP rooting against America" too?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 5:22:39 PM   
Arrogance


Posts: 185
Joined: 7/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I'm glad we have you to tell us what everyone's perception is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
There is nothing wrong with reasonable people holding different views and being glad to see them prevail. However, there is a perception that the GOP has decided to take every Obama failure as a personal victory. I think this will be one of their difficulties in the upcomming elections. I do not think it is only democrats who have this perception that the GOP would rather see the country get worse than Obama have a victory. I do, however, think that it will be argued by conservatives that the very idea of this perception is completely unfounded and paranoid. What remains to be seen is how the independents, who hold all modern elections in their hands, end up thinking.



Pot.Kettle.Black.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 6:23:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR:  I saw this article at work today, and made an imaginary pool entry on what page it would be on here, when I got home.  I win 

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 6:23:22 PM   
rikigrl


Posts: 203
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

If the US never previously sent a "head of State" how could it have happened before? Would that indicate an intelligence on the part of prior administrations not to involve themselves with local politics, or would you say it pointed to something else? Regarding my reply, I didn't know you were asking a rhetorical question - sorry.

Everyone in all those videos and archived blog posts celebrating was "right wing"? Sets up a vocal, if not large, group of disenfranchised voters for the next election. I'm surprised that in such a short time so many people feel alienated by this Administration and now consider themselves "right wing" in their dissension, but I'll accept your representation speaking for them. I doubt they were directing their celebration toward the disenfranchised of Chicago, but again - based on what you have documented concerning your company, I understand why that is how you took their reaction.

Has one group ever celebrated over the failure of the polarized opposite group? That's a rhetorical question too right? If not, a similar celebration and consequence will occur again tomorrow. Whoever wins the Twins / Tigers game will be celebrating. Whether they consider it at the time or not, the loser's workers and support staff at the losing stadium won't get any additional jobs, income, or benefit because their team lost; different sport, different scale, same celebration and sadness. Was getting the Olympics life or death for Chicago? Like any lost sales pitch, it is sad, but in context of the general US economy, not the saddest thing occurring.

I don't think it makes the 'top 10' of sad things for those currently working for Saturn living in the soon to be ghost town, Spring Hill Tennessee. I bet they are wondering if perhaps the time spent to sell Chicago to the Olympic committee could have been better spend talking to potential Saturn merger partners. After all, as a result of the last bail out, Obama is the de-facto CEO of GM. Maybe the time could have been spent 'selling' Saturn to the Penske group who was looking into acquiring them.

When pictures of them are shown and they speak about wondering what happened to the auto bail out and the Administration's 'plan' for GM - will they be considered part of the "GOP rooting against America" too?


Let's see, you rail against the stimulus package, and yet you whine that nothing was done to save Saturn, is this some Kama Sutra position? i highly doubt that any deal for Saturn could have been worked out in the time it took for his I.O.C. presentation imho, and, exactly how many people feel  alienated by this administration? i certainly don't.(insert any 10 emoticons here for dramatic effect)  

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 7:23:22 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


START:
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'm not sure who the "our faces" you refer to are, because I checked your profile and you don't live in Chicago.

I'm an American. A portion of that $787 billion stimulus package we're paying for would have been poured into this project.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Why are so many Republicans latching onto this issue other than trying to paint anything Obama does as a failure?

Try to keep up. I already answered that question here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You and I have no real stake in this, other than a certain sense of national pride if we would have been chosen.

GOTO START:

K.


I see we're out for a good stretch today.

Limbering up those muscles.

What part of the the stimulus package was earmarked for the 2016 Olympics?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 7:38:33 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A portion of that $787 billion stimulus package we're paying for would have been poured into this project.

What part of the the stimulus package was earmarked for the 2016 Olympics?

I don't believe I saw the word "earmarked" in my post. Would you care to point it out to me? I expressed the view that it "would have been," and I am not alone in that opinion. From the Time article previously referenced:

Chicago estimates that the cost of hosting the 2016 Olympics will be $4.8 billion. If its bid finds favor with the IOC... it has one advantage that Atlanta didn't: access to a portion of Washington's $787 billion economic stimulus package

Now I have a question for you. Which part of Chicago's budget has an extra $4.8 billion laying around?

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/5/2009 7:48:28 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 7:45:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Let's see, you rail against the stimulus package, and yet you whine that nothing was done to save Saturn, is this some Kama Sutra position? i highly doubt that any deal for Saturn could have been worked out in the time it took for his I.O.C. presentation imho, and, exactly how many people feel alienated by this administration? i certainly don't

You need a number? The GM/Saturn/auto bail out generates confidence?

You detected a "whine"? Where? We'll never know what could have been done, only the waste of what was done.

I can't feel sorry for the people who put faith in a stimulus package I personally didn't back? I sympathize for anyone's faith in the campaign rhetoric at this point. Whether that turns, or has already turned into alienation will require waiting. That doesn't change my position regarding either stimulus package; Bush I or Bush II under Obama.

(in reply to rikigrl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 7:47:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A portion of that $787 billion stimulus package we're paying for would have been poured into this project.

What part of the the stimulus package was earmarked for the 2016 Olympics?

I don't believe I saw the word "earmarked" in my post. Would you care to point it out to me? I expressed the opinion that it "would have been," and I am not alone in that view. From the Time article previously referenced:

Chicago estimates that the cost of hosting the 2016 Olympics will be $4.8 billion. If its bid finds favor with the IOC... it has one advantage that Atlanta didn't: access to a portion of Washington's $787 billion economic stimulus package

Now I have a question for you. Which part of Chicago's budget has an extra $4.8 billion laying around?

K.



Yes, I saw that, but it is a long, tortured argument to claim the stimulus package would have funded the Olympics.

I could have easily made the argument about any number of things that the stimulus package financed, depending on how many hoops we want to jump through.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Dems: GOP rooting against America - 10/5/2009 8:17:42 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Yes, I saw that, but it is a long, tortured argument to claim the stimulus package would have funded the Olympics.

Really? I seem to detect a rather strong view in some quarters that hosting the Olympics in 2016 would have been "good" for America. Unless you think Chicago could have pulled $4.8 billion out of its hat, who do you suppose would have been tapped to pay for it? And if the deal had gone through, there wouldn't have been any "long, tortured argument" over funding the work (read "jobs") that would be needed to prepare the city. We'd have no choice at that point.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/5/2009 8:31:26 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 100
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