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Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 5:41:16 PM   
barelynangel


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6 year old suspended and may face 45 days of REFORM SCHOOL due to bringing a cub scout utensil thing with fork, spoon, and knife, to school cause he was so excited about being a part of the cub scouts.


I just have a hard time with this --- to me 6years old is not old enough to understand how this is WRONG. Its a eating utensil to him. When is it zero tolerance and when is it holding a child to adult responsibility? When is it zero tolerance and when is it trying to cover your ass. When is it zero tolerance and etc etc

I do understand the concept of zero tolerance but when is a child a child and when is he capable of knowing right from wrong? When should it be the parent's responsibility to deal with instead of the child? I believe zero tolerance should mean if the child is incapable of understanding the concept as a whole, you focus on who should have known better --- the parents and when do you hold child responsible as they should know what is part of zero tolerance policy.

Why not hold the parents responsible with fines, or even legal citations of some kind or hell charge them with a misdemeanor. But the kid having to take the brunt of the consequences when to me he is simply to young to understand. But where do you draw the line would then become the question. I am also curious if the school goes over with the children in these younger grades especially what they aren't allowed to bring to school with picture or showing them what is considered a no no.

To me, if they did not do this, then they are partly responsible for this child not understanding a knife as part of a utensil set is not correct, also do they eat with plastic in the lunchroom or do they have actual utensils? If they do not educate the children to understand what consists of the zero tolerance policy in the AGE APPROPRIATE teaching but leave it up to the parents only, then they should deal with the parents not punish the child.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/12/2009 5:52:05 PM >


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 5:45:43 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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yeah I al so believe the parents had more of a role in this, why didn't they put boundaries on where he could have the item, and if they did that and he forgot and had it anyway, why were they not making sure, he didn't have it during a school day.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:05:03 PM   
servantforuse


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Zero tolerance ? I say that there is zero common sense among school administration personal and principles. This is an easy way out for them. They do not even have to make a simple decision. Rule is a rule is all they know. I feel sorry for the kid and his parents. I'd pull him out of that school like yesterday.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:08:46 PM   
lovingpet


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Trust me, a parent's eyes can only cover so much ground. This was as simple as a meeting of parents, child, teacher, and principal to tell the child, "No, honey, you can't bring this to school. It's a no no. Do not do it again." The kid and the parents sound pretty stellar. It was just the unfortunate judgement of a 6 year old child. For crying out loud, he even used it in the appropriate manner, which is how he got caught. He wasn't trying to be underhanded nor did he appear to have any ulterior motive aside from eating his meal with his cool new gadget.

The whole situation is just grossly out of hand and I can tell you right now that if it EVER happened to my kid, I would be pulling the child right back into homeschooling and they can all rot for all I care. Hopefully, the situation can be diffused by his parents, but this has the potential to wreak a kid permanently who was otherwise headed on to what appeared to be a bright future. Now he has discovered that adults are full of crap and think policy is more important than people. Nice job school officials!

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:09:29 PM   
darlinggirlATL


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Y'all are missing the point that the reason there is this rule, and why this kid is being made an example of, is of all the other overzealous parents, all over the United States, who scream and cry and moan and weep everytime some kid so much as gives their kid a funny look.  I cannot imagine why anyone would want to be a teacher or a school administrator, when the education system no longer has anything to do with actually teaching, and everything to do with the indoctrination of personality suppression and political correctness, and sublimating one's self in the name of behavioral "supposed to's" and "not supposed to's".

We're raising a generation of kids who are incapable of fighting their own battles, and who are not going to be able to function as independent adults, and it's going to bite us in the ass.  Well..  I take that back.  It will bite you all in the ass.  I'm going to retire somewhere else.  Europe, maybe, or Asia.  ;) 

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:13:06 PM   
servantforuse


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A first grader here in Milwaukee was suspended 2 years ago for bringing a squirt gun to school. It was 2 inches long and pink. A rule is a rule.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:13:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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I've got to get out of this fucking country before I go crazy too. I swear to god, it's driving me mad.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:14:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darlinggirlATL

Y'all are missing the point that the reason there is this rule, and why this kid is being made an example of, is of all the other overzealous parents, all over the United States, who scream and cry and moan and weep everytime some kid so much as gives their kid a funny look.  I cannot imagine why anyone would want to be a teacher or a school administrator, when the education system no longer has anything to do with actually teaching, and everything to do with the indoctrination of personality suppression and political correctness, and sublimating one's self in the name of behavioral "supposed to's" and "not supposed to's".

We're raising a generation of kids who are incapable of fighting their own battles, and who are not going to be able to function as independent adults, and it's going to bite us in the ass.  Well..  I take that back.  It will bite you all in the ass.  I'm going to retire somewhere else.  Europe, maybe, or Asia.  ;) 


Welcome to the forums! Nice first post. I hope there are a lot more to come.


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 6:24:24 PM   
lovingpet


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No. There is a difference in one child victimizing another and some kid quietly eating his lunch with a "weapon". As the parent of a child that was and still is to some extent bullied, I can tell you it gets out of hand in a hurry. If the child doesn't say anything about the dirty looks, it is not a far leap until they are being beaten up on a daily basis. My child was even attacked by another student outside our home simply trying to walk to the bus stop one morning. I don't need zero tolerence. I need zero bullshit. I teach my children to be fair and to think for themselves. If it has come to the point that they are approaching me or someone in the school, it is time for action. I was told about the other student's tough life and how they could not restrain the rights of one child for violating the rights of another. The bullies were never punished in any way and continued until I pulled him for two years. This included that attack outside my home that neither the school administration, nor the police were willing to deal with, passing off the jurisdictional responsibility to each other and leaving my kid vulnerable to future attacks. I had to resort to driving him each day and he wound up broken out in hives, developing severe allergies, and being sick daily until the school year was finally over. My child is not violent. My child never retaliated though he did voice his objections clearly. My child did not receive intervention from anyone except me. My child was definitely fighting the battle all alone for a very long time. Many kids suffer in silence and try to resolve the issue in many different ways all of which fail. Children do need guidance in order to learn what is acceptable and not, how to handle conflicts, and much more. This is not social control. It is called raising children instead of letting them run wild.

I would agree there is a great deal of "programming" done within the walls of the schools, but I do not think that teaching each other how to interact in a positive manner is one of them. I think teaching children to properly use weapons is far more beneficial than making them forbidden fruit and giving them no guidance about what they can actually do and what the consequences are. I think teaching children skills, basic ethics, and a concept of consequences is a fabulous idea. Unfortunately, that does involve some level of teaching right from wrong and that would be a "moral" judgement and would not be very "tolerant", so the alternative is to have zero tolerance instead. How ironic.

lovingpet

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 7:11:41 PM   
DarkSteven


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I am at a total loss.

If a kid brings something to school that is considered a potential weapon, then confiscate it, notify parents, and discuss with them an appropriate course of action.

I'd also like to point out that the kids responsible for the Columbine massacre did not follow any weapons policies and would likely have opened fire on someone who told them to disarm.  So exactly what is the policy supposed to do?  Has it yet disarmed any potential killers?


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 7:42:19 PM   
pahunkboy


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shhhhhhhhh!  

lets not tell Alex Jones.

He has had some ramped up rants of late.  lol

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 7:44:48 PM   
winterlight


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Reform school? You got to be kidding me. for a 6 year old?

Boy, did common sense go out the window on some things that are in place at schools!

GEEZE!

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 7:49:12 PM   
winterlight


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agrees with DarkSteven..

It is getting ridiculous out there!

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 8:03:39 PM   
barelynangel


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Yeah i was like oh hell no when i saw he may face 45 days in reform school. Hell we don't have adults who have a mental capacity of a 6 year old stand trial for crimes much worse than breaking a rule of school, and yet they want to place a 6 year old who has no idea what the big idea is in reform school.

Don't get me wrong i do agree with rules, but as Dark Steven said -- if someone one brings a weapon to HARM someone with in school they aren't going to let a rule stop them.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 8:08:14 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

6 year old suspended and may face 45 days of REFORM SCHOOL due to bringing a cub scout utensil thing with fork, spoon, and knife, to school cause he was so excited about being a part of the cub scouts.


I just have a hard time with this --- to me 6years old is not old enough to understand how this is WRONG. Its a eating utensil to him. When is it zero tolerance and when is it holding a child to adult responsibility? When is it zero tolerance and when is it trying to cover your ass. When is it zero tolerance and etc etc

I do understand the concept of zero tolerance but when is a child a child and when is he capable of knowing right from wrong? When should it be the parent's responsibility to deal with instead of the child? I believe zero tolerance should mean if the child is incapable of understanding the concept as a whole, you focus on who should have known better --- the parents and when do you hold child responsible as they should know what is part of zero tolerance policy.

Why not hold the parents responsible with fines, or even legal citations of some kind or hell charge them with a misdemeanor. But the kid having to take the brunt of the consequences when to me he is simply to young to understand. But where do you draw the line would then become the question. I am also curious if the school goes over with the children in these younger grades especially what they aren't allowed to bring to school with picture or showing them what is considered a no no.

To me, if they did not do this, then they are partly responsible for this child not understanding a knife as part of a utensil set is not correct, also do they eat with plastic in the lunchroom or do they have actual utensils? If they do not educate the children to understand what consists of the zero tolerance policy in the AGE APPROPRIATE teaching but leave it up to the parents only, then they should deal with the parents not punish the child.

angel


Right!

6 years old.....sure.....

That was a weapon!  Sure as it was made of steel....he was a member of an innocuous group, bent on destruction of the American Way.

You think he was 6....I read the story.  To me, he seemed 7.

What do you think....that people read these stories and believe the CIA/FBI pablum they're fed?  Wake the fuck up!

This kid was 6.....hardly a 5 year old with wishful, doting fantasies, sugar plums dancing in his head.....yeah fucking right.

This kid was a commie through and through.

Sure....he looked cute....yeah I saw his picture....all American kid.

(That's what they wanted you to think....and you suckers bought it all lock stock and barrel).

Gawwwwwd.....I could sell you a river if you were drowning.

Wake up people....6 year olds (in the fucking Cub Scouts) ARE trying to usurp your rights....and I'll tell you what.....one of these days, the Girls Scouts are going to try to sell you the same cookies you bought last year...in front of a WalMart....but in a smaller package (it'll seem harmless)....and you'll walk away thinking...."Hmmm...these cookies seem smaller to me"...but you won't actually do anything of any consequence about it....and you'll wonder.....quietly.....to yourself....

And then you'll remember this post....and then you'll know.

It was all there...right in front of you....


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 10/12/2009 8:38:08 PM >

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 8:12:35 PM   
barelynangel


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bursts out laughing

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 8:32:26 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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(This kid's a 6 year old....going on 6 years 3....maybe 4 months....don't be conned into the media hype).

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 8:46:53 PM   
pahunkboy


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well if he isn't now a break the matrix dude- he will be in 45 days....

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 9:11:32 PM   
endearing


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A couple of things:

1) 
It is ridiculous to have a 6 year old be suspended for such a thing -- and heaven help possibly tacking on a 45 day term in an alternative school for a 6 year old.

2) Student handbooks are now issued for even elementary schools. The handbooks should be issued to the parents at least several days before the new school year begins inorder for the parents and the students [dependent upon the students' vocabulary level] to be able to read it before students are attending school. If a student is to young to understand the vocabulary -- the parents should explain to the child what she/he is responsible for knowing. And parents should definitely be checking back packs and purses also. There are ongoing issues in some schools and the parents support by checking could make positive differences.
 

< Message edited by endearing -- 10/12/2009 9:36:15 PM >

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 9:14:33 PM   
Sanity


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These are the people who are teaching our children...


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