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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 9:45:55 PM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
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Status: offline 		What if the parent cannot read and yes, there are some out there..

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 9:52:45 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		It brings back memories of school for me, but the difference is, if we screwed up, the teacher or principal would take us into a little room, we'd bend over and we'd get a few smacks across our backside with a belt, and we wouldn't ever do that again!

It's a 6 year old with a goddamn swiss army sporknife.  What the hell people?  I guess we have to make sure he doesn't grow up to start knocking over convenience stores with those collapsing fold up travel toothbrushes.  *headdesk*


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 10:18:09 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


These are the people who are teaching our children...



One might think so, but in fact....these are the people who are dealing with the laws, that we, as citizens, created, by voting for (or not) for the things, to protect our kids, which often don't.



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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 10:30:38 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Anyone remember the kid who got expelled from school for kissing another student. I believe that by was in first grade.

Yeah that was stupid then too.

This isn't about children. It's about Parents Political views being used to remove the innocence of children.

What the sick sick sick thing is that no one is coming to the defense of these poor children.

The Knife in Question is a Metal Butter Knife, Not very Sharp you can do more damage with safety sissors and they still let kids play with them right?

I know a few things teachers hand children every day that can be used to harm and maim..... #2 Pencil Anyone?

I wouldn't go back and live my childhood today for any amount of money.

If you think what is happening to this child is a good thing or even holds merit you are fucking Insane. Kids are Kids and they do stupid shit and when theyu do they need to learn WHY what they did was wrong. I just want to know how many kids his age are IN reform school that they could justify sending him there.

This is what is Fucked with America. It is the Blemish I am MOST ashamed of in this country. Not the Wars, Not the Political Bullshit, the fact that we can't realize that we have gotten so worked up in the burecratic bullshit that a child who was PROUD of something worth being PROUD of gets Punished for it.

Steel

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 10:35:50 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Anyone remember the kid who got expelled from school for kissing another student. I believe that by was in first grade.

Yeah that was stupid then too.

This isn't about children. It's about Parents Political views being used to remove the innocence of children.

What the sick sick sick thing is that no one is coming to the defense of these poor children.

The Knife in Question is a Metal Butter Knife, Not very Sharp you can do more damage with safety sissors and they still let kids play with them right?

I know a few things teachers hand children every day that can be used to harm and maim..... #2 Pencil Anyone?

I wouldn't go back and live my childhood today for any amount of money.

If you think what is happening to this child is a good thing or even holds merit you are fucking Insane. Kids are Kids and they do stupid shit and when theyu do they need to learn WHY what they did was wrong. I just want to know how many kids his age are IN reform school that they could justify sending him there.

This is what is Fucked with America. It is the Blemish I am MOST ashamed of in this country. Not the Wars, Not the Political Bullshit, the fact that we can't realize that we have gotten so worked up in the burecratic bullshit that a child who was PROUD of something worth being PROUD of gets Punished for it.

Steel


He was a terrorist.

You look at that kid's eyes.

He knew what he was doing.....boy next door.....riiiiiiight.

I stand by what I said before.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 10:46:41 PM   
BKSir


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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah


I know a few things teachers hand children every day that can be used to harm and maim..... #2 Pencil Anyone?



No kidding!  I still have a discoloured scar on the palm of my hand because I was fucking around with one of those and it broke and jabbed in.  Don't let the school board know though, or they'll ban pencils and pens next, and then what will kids write with?

Can't give them laptops, they might strangle someone with the cables.  So that's out.  Hammer and chisel, certainly not!  Maybe a big, fat, non-stabby, magic marker.  Shit, no, they might sniff the fumes.  Fuck it all, let's just close the schools.


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 10:55:13 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		What a bunch of bullshit!
When I was eight years old me and my friends were hopping freight trains!
When I was 11 years old I took a train from Boston, Mass to San Francisco and back. By myself.
A fucking *pocket knife?*

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 11:03:09 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		I normally disagree with you wholeheartedly, but here... yeah...  And it wasn't even a pocket knife!  It was a swiss army sporknife!  99% chance when I was in school, the worst that would have happened is the teacher would have taken it away, kept it in his/her desk until the end of the day, told me "Knives aren't allowed in school because someone might get hurt accidentally.  Now take it home and leave it there.", handed it back, end of story.  At WORST!  Most likely would have been just told, put it away and don't bring it to school (same reason).  To which my response, and that of pretty damn near EVERY 6 year old would have been "Oh.  Okay.  Sorry."

We're of a different time, man.  A time of common sense, now something that is an unfortunate misnomer.  Hell, we'd probably have gotten taken over our mom or dad's knee for taking it to school, not because we took a sporknife to school, but because "That costs good money and you might have lost it." LOL


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 11:30:14 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		This is a major example of using a flamethrower when a fly swatter would work just fine.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/12/2009 11:41:29 PM   
soul2share


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From: somewhere out there.....
Status: offline 		I've read stories where kids were suspended for carrying nail clippers......there is absolutely NO common sense anymore in dealing with things like this.  Schools are doing absolutely nothing to stop violence, those that are supposed to be trained in spotting behaviors are the LAST ones that see them.  They talk a great game about stopping bullies, but what exactly do they DO about them?  They suspend the poor kids that finally do stand up to them, yet are afraid to do anything to the bully, because if the kid is a bully, the parent(s) are more than likely the same.  When I was in school, you got bullied, you did what you had to do.....yeah, I kicked some butt in school, both on my own behalf and my sister's.  And never once got suspended.

I hope that someplace along the line, common sense will prevail for the 6 year old.....the judge may see that this whole situation is totally blown out of proportion, and decide NOT to waste the taxpayers money on sending the poor kid to reform school.  The poor kid is probably having nightmares about everything that's happened to him so far!

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 3:24:07 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
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Status: offline 		The problem is with the word  "zero" it does not give any room to discuss rational thought.  I agree the schools hide behind it

I disagree with the "zero" concept, hell even in prisons when they have weapons and drugs they at least have the chance to plea their case.

There was a child here in kindergarten who was charged with a sexual offense because they hugged another student in class,  it went to court before a judge had the common sense to throw it out and lecture the lawyers, parents and school for pushing the case as far as it went.

As a parent,  I think the problem is with the parents of children who want to be their child's "best friend" instead of the parent.  Sometimes being a parent means, your child may not like you for awhile as you enforce rules they do not like.  But it's better than going to court



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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 3:40:19 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I've got to get out of this fucking country before I go crazy too. I swear to god, it's driving me mad.

I can't figure out why pencils are still allowed.

K.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 3:44:13 AM   
Level


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Status: offline 		FR:

Take the knife, call the parents, and let them come pick it up, tell them to not let the kid bring it back again. Common sense. NOT kicking him out.

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 3:46:50 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline
quote:

6 year old suspended and may face 45 days of REFORM SCHOOL due to bringing a cub scout utensil thing with fork, spoon, and knife, to school cause he was so excited about being a part of the cub scouts.


I just have a hard time with this --- to me 6years old is not old enough to understand how this is WRONG. Its a eating utensil to him. When is it zero tolerance and when is it holding a child to adult responsibility? When is it zero tolerance and when is it trying to cover your ass. When is it zero tolerance and etc etc
I am starting to develop zero tolerance for this zero tolerance crap.

Correct me if i am wrong...but was this child not carrying the very things the school puts on his tray in the cafeteria or that he has in his little lunch box? If he only pulled it out at lunch time would this even be an issue?


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 3:57:24 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		What I can't seem to understand, is they kick  grade school age children out of school for breaking the zero tolerance rules, yet in the high schools, they have guards with metal dectectors searching every student before they enter. If they find anything illegal, they simply take it from the student and allow the student into class.  Huh.....seems backwards to me

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 4:59:44 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Even within the confines of the school rules, a parent can teach their kid to fight their own battles. At the same time you teach them to accept the consequences. You are giving an unacceptable excuse to parents that are not active enough in teaching their kids to face life, and that is actually the problem.

To the OP: Yeah it is pretty stupid. If nothing else they should have a clause that allows the school board to review the case, and adjust the penalty.


quote:

ORIGINAL: darlinggirlATL

We're raising a generation of kids who are incapable of fighting their own battles, and who are not going to be able to function as independent adults, and it's going to bite us in the ass.  Well..  I take that back.  It will bite you all in the ass.  I'm going to retire somewhere else.  Europe, maybe, or Asia.  ;) 


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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 5:14:29 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I just think its should be the parents facing the consequences not the child. And its the child who will face the stigma now.



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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 5:24:40 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

The problem is with the word  "zero" it does not give any room to discuss rational thought.  I agree the schools hide behind it

I disagree with the "zero" concept, hell even in prisons when they have weapons and drugs they at least have the chance to plea their case.

There was a child here in kindergarten who was charged with a sexual offense because they hugged another student in class,  it went to court before a judge had the common sense to throw it out and lecture the lawyers, parents and school for pushing the case as far as it went.

As a parent,  I think the problem is with the parents of children who want to be their child's "best friend" instead of the parent.  Sometimes being a parent means, your child may not like you for awhile as you enforce rules they do not like.  But it's better than going to court





The only issue I take with the above is that the kid wasn't trying to break a rule. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong and the parents simply couldn't be everywhere at once. It was a mistake, plain and simple. The child got something new that he thought was really cool and took it to school, probably only being as mischevious as slipping it in his pack secretly because he knows he's not supposed to bring "toys" to school. I miss the occasional mess up on the part of my ums, but it doesn't mean I am not vigilent. Kids do dumb things. It is the motivation behind it that I am interested in and there was no malicious intent on the part of this particular child.

lovingpet

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 5:32:35 AM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I just think its should be the parents facing the consequences not the child. And its the child who will face the stigma now.




Aside from a firm explanation that this item is not to come to school again, what consequences should there really be in this case? Why do parents have to take consequences for their kids being kids and making the occasional errant decision? This was an innocuous incident. There's a huge difference between missing that a pocket multi tool has been slipped into a backpack and missing the fact that your kid is building pipe bombs in their bedroom. I know I could have easily been the parent who missed this little detail as I was sending my kid out the door. I'm not a bad parent, nor do I deserve to pay some huge penalty for my child undergoing a life lesson. I do know I am a good enough parent that I wouldn't miss out on my child being suicidal, antisocial, and attempting to keep me out of their business under my own roof. The two things are totally unrelated and the penalties for both students and parents cannot remain static in the two cases. Let this kid and his mom and dad go enjoy the next camp out in peace and go find these kids that are having real and serious problems and address them before it gets as far as a school shooting. How about let's all be willing to think and reason instead of blindly following defective policy?

lovingpet

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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 10/13/2009 5:42:06 AM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


These are the people who are teaching our children...



One might think so, but in fact....these are the people who are dealing with the laws, that we, as citizens, created, by voting for (or not) for the things, to protect our kids, which often don't.





No. The people had no say in school policy except to bitch and complain. It is not codified law beyond that of bring a firearm on campus in most cases. These are school policies put in place by a non elected school board and enforced by administrators as if it were law. They do have the authority to use discretion, but choose to cower to this crap instead. I didn't vote for this. No one did. Some people may have spoken before the school board meeting for or against it, but ultimately, it was their decision and we had no say in their placement on the school board either.

I have heard very few parents pushing for zero tolerence. Those few that did, many of them have learned the error of their ways through their own child or an experience of another parent. This had never exactly been a popular policy. If it were put to vote, I could almost guarantee it would be voted down. In the meantime, our kids' future rides on these kinds of idiotic policies that have allowed administrators to no longer have to think. I am all for personal responsibility and accepting APPROPRIATE consequences for those decisions. Extreme penalties meeted out without regard for anything else will never live up to my standards.

lovingpet

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