lovingpet
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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Orion, its a RULE --- if you don't agree with the rules you don't just gloss over them and say well its the rules fault. I don't agree with this rule but to me as long as its inacted PARENTS and the SCHOOLS are responsible for making sure the kids know what it is. And in cases like this -- the PARENTS should be held responsible until such time the school uses common sense -- not the child. I am NOT saying the school shouldn't reconsider, but until such time, i don't think the CHILD at this age and showing he really has no clue what is happening and why, shouldn't be facing the consequences, his parents should be.
Who said anything about theft? I said if a child BREAKS something IN A STORE -- the parent is the one who faces the consequences of the store's RULES. Breaking something in a store isn't theft its an accident. And yet, Parents are held responsible. How did you get THEFT from that? The stores don't go all haywire if something is broke and call the cops and have people much less children arrested last time i checked, they simply expect the parent to pay for it. If they don't, its a CIVIL matter, not a criminal one. YOu can't charge someone with theft who doesn't steal something.
I agree there should be zero tolerance for WEAPONS USED TO HARM being brought into schools, i agree there should be zero tolerance for ILLEGAL DRUGS being brought into schools. That has always been the unspoken RULES and yes written rules even when we were kids. So ZERO tolerance has always been around nowadays its simply over different things than when we were kids. Just as rules for us were different than our parents. However, it was also balanced by PARENTS being far more responsible for their childs behavior, it was balanced with PARENTS actively being a part of their child's schooling etc. Nowadays the MINORITY is of parents being interactive in many cases.
I don't think the policy needs to be changed, i think common sense needs to be inacted but also, yeah i think the parents need to face the consequences, BUT as i have also said, i believe the school is partly responsible IF they don't TEACH about zero tolerance in age appropriate manner. But i also asked in my initial statement -- when should the LINE be drawn, when does a child become responsible due to their comprehension and simply blowing off a rule knowing what they are doing is wrong.
Perhaps part of the reason zero tolerance is such a big issues now instead of like ut was with us is because there is the excuse of well i can't ALWAYS know what my kid is doing. If the parents maybe looked at it differently while still admitting that and agreeing to be responsible. Again, i am not agreeing with the school, i just believe the child shouldn't be the one taking all the consequences.
Until the policy is changed i don't believe a 6 year old should be taking the consequences.
angel
Actually, sometimes it is the rule's fault. Even our great Constitution has been amended a few times. At some point we realized that the slaves running away wasn't the issue. It was the fact that there were legally allowed to BE slaves in the first place that was at the root of the issue. Just because there is a policy or code for something doesn't mean that it is automatically fair or appropriate.
Breaking something in a store is technically theft because it is causing an equivalent loss to the store. My kids are under threat of their life or simply not brought into stores where this will be an issue. I may be the one who pays the clerk at that moment, but my kid owes allowance equal to the price if I ever have to do that and that allowance is earned through chores and other work. They still pay the consequences themselves even if I am the public face who does so.
I am an incredible and even considered by the schools occasionally as overbearingly involved with my kids and their education. I hold everyone, including myself to high standards. It doesn't mean that there can't still be an "incident". Even good kids and good parents can find themselves on the horns of these kinds of extremist policies.
Sorry, no matter who takes the consequences or how it is taught, zero tolerance is a deeply and irreparably flawed concept. The policy is the issue, not the school administration, kids, or parents. There are better ways, but they are harder and require a lot more out of everybody involved. Zero tolerance is easy and requires no real thought or effort at all.
I would state that if a child does something wrong, they still must bear the lion's share of the consequences. That is how they learn. I, for one, never debated that point. I will take responsibility if and only if I was the one who TOLD them to take the item to school. Then I deserve whatever the policy or law wishes to meet out. I deal with issues as they arise. My children have consequences both at school and at home for something that occurs at school. Teachers are made aware of issues going on at home. I don't, however, accept that a consequence is appropriate just because it is policy. Last I checked, there was something about "cruel and unusual punishment" in our Constitution. That also covers, based on case law, excessive punishments for nominal offenses. The Constitution doesn't apply within the walls of the school? In this case, it has not been established otherwise and I would also say that even where it has been, those rulings were unconstitutional as well. Students have legally protected rights just like any other citizen.
lovingpet
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RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old - 
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