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RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 12:28:22 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess you are right. All of these problems will just go away when a government bureaucrat is making these decisions instead of an insurance company. They will also be making other decisions for you as well.

Nah Servant,the only thing that goes away with a public option.....is the obscene profit margins currently being raked in by insurance companies.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 21

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 1:07:25 PM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Your'e right I do have insurance which is still funded by AT&T. Why do I care ? Government health care will put private insurance companies out of business. I and millions of others who are happy with our coverage will have no where else to go except the government plan.

So, "fuck you, I got mine", then?

How compassionate.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 22

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 1:44:15 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

my understanding is that they were going to use private insurers to pool for these things, and underwrite it some like they did the toxic assets.

Yeah, look how great that's worked for the 'assigned risk' automobile coverage in congested states like NJ, PA, NY. All used have multiple insurance companies. Now, especially in NJ, no insurance company will come into the market and write business on a voluntary basis.

quote:

at the core of your argument is the implied premise that you (as a class of folks) might be paying too much for your health-care, otherwise you would be happy for more options.

There is no way anyone won't be paying more. They'll be paying for existing coverage, as long as that lasts, plus they'll be paying taxes to subsidize other people's coverage. Or shouldn't the $2 Trillion price tag put on the pending bill by Senator Reid be considered an 'add-on' tax burden? Others, such as The Cato Institute, have pegged the cost at $2 trillion, which would make it a huge deficit multiplier. Reid seems to admit exactly this in his statement here.

There are already bribes being paid publicly to get this passed adding to the cost. There's this to consider in the current pending Bill. A payoff to get doctors to back it:Harry Reid, announced his intention to introduce a free standing bill next week that would put $240 billion into Medicare's bank account.

Also detrimental to the voluntary market is how employers will react. How many companies will do as I will when this happens? The minute there is government program; I cancel our existing group coverage and give my employees the current cost as a pay raise. They'll 'think' they, at minimum, broke even. Hell, I bet out of the gate they'll have more net pay, at least until the claims from all these newly insured 46 million start being paid. Then watch the costs increase. However, as an employer I'm done having to worry about that. From the moment the government provides an alternative and requirement for insurance any future increases in premium are the individual's problem. It's worse than that for them because of course they'll now be paying taxes on that 'pay increase'; probably at a higher rate than now to fund the program.

Taking to our adult children and their friends, ages 22-26, they are all representing they will take the $400 fine per year option instead of paying out a couple hundred per month. Again creating a negative participant pool which will insure any projections have overstated for premium's paid and understated for claims. But hell - just raise the penalty or raise the cost of the 'assigned risk' participation pool.

On the subject of making rules for your lifestyle since they will be covering your insurance. President Obama and members of Congress have declared that they are trying to create a system in which no one can be denied coverage or charged higher premiums based on their health status. The health insurance lobby has said it shares that goal. However, so-called wellness incentives could introduce a colossal loophole. In effect, they would permit insurers and employers to make coverage less affordable for people exhibiting risk factors for problems like diabetes, heart disease and stroke.

Not a "slippery slope" but a promise. Weight requirement, diet, maybe even a mandatory work out in front of an interactive big screen? I remember reading a novel about a totalitarian government that required that once...

But I guess you're position would be, at least Winston Smith had government health insurance.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 23

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 1:58:32 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

No no no no no Merc, that is plain sloppy shit equivalence. The no risk mandated auto insurance was solely a promotion of the insurance companies themselves, hell, they wrote most of the legislation, acting federally state by state, and the state legislatures did like that cat used to say...............

yeah, yeah, thats sounds logical....

Nope, federal mandate and run federally, dont need any input from insurance agencies whatsoever, any more than we need from regulated industries such as utilities. then we should get auto insurance and all other insurances straightened out with federal universal rules.

and sitting here saying oh shit it is gonna cost, dont change a fuckin thing, merc, it is gonna cost anyway, so you can do it and take some of the lobby and bonus out, or pay it in welfare, cause either or, people are dropping insurance and they will have no recourse except to the state or federal programs, you can do that as emergency......fuck look at New York!!!! How much do they give a breeding slut for an apartment out there? they will throw you in a not even good enough for projects hotel at 3-4 grand a month.

Nope, this piecemeal handling of shit has got to stop, there needs to be policy, accountability and reliability.

Federal government takes it over and whoever dont want to sell in New Jersey don't get to sell nowhere.

And I could give a rats ass if they tell some fat bastard he gotta go to jenny craig meetings every week, or some other fuckwad he gotta attend every aa meeting from here to timbuktu.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:07:09 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

If the private insurers stay around that would be great. It will take a lot more and Harry Ried and Nancy Polosi to convince me though. I'm not believing them for a New York minute.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 25

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:08:34 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

I'm leaving for a tavern. See ya in about 4 hours. My health insurance pays for it.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 26

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:10:12 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

LOLOLOL, mike...

good one on you, have a drink for me.....if your insurance will cover it.....

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 27

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:42:26 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

On the subject of making rules for your lifestyle since they will be covering your insurance. President Obama and members of Congress have declared that they are trying to create a system in which no one can be denied coverage or charged higher premiums based on their health status. The health insurance lobby has said it shares that goal. However, so-called wellness incentives could introduce a colossal loophole. In effect, they would permit insurers and employers to make coverage less affordable for people exhibiting risk factors for problems like diabetes, heart disease and stroke.

Funny you should mention that!! We just got notice in the mail Wednesday saying that for 2010 we must participate in age and gender appropriate preventative health care and testing, stop smoking(we don't anyway), take a health risk assessment and participate in a disease management program or our premiums will be going up 20% so you are right they are calling it a "wellness incentive".

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"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 28

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:44:01 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Chewie,

This is in anticipation of the bills passage, you think?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 29

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:52:25 PM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

Heh. You know, I exercise regularly, eat well, don't smoke, and don't drink - so I don't *care* if all of you get stuck into forced exercise camps.

After all, I got mine.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 30

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 2:54:32 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

lol. a true american, these days. good one.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

Post #: 31

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:01:57 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Funny you should mention that!! We just got notice in the mail Wednesday saying that for 2010 we must participate in age and gender appropriate preventative health care and testing, stop smoking(we don't anyway), take a health risk assessment and participate in a disease management program or our premiums will be going up 20% so you are right they are calling it a "wellness incentive".

Well now, I guess it may not be politically correct to ostracize fat people, but apparently in the current version of the health care Bill, it will be okay to charge them more. Hell, remember the thread about the overweight baby? I guess Congress did and thought it was a good idea to use it to get the insurance companies to support the Bill.

Wonder if that will become a common practice. Will there be a monthly 'weigh in' prior to paying a premium? A chest x-ray to make sure you haven't smoked? A blood test to verify your mayonaise, bacon, and butter intake influenced cholesterol? Well I guess the government could also tax those evil items to offset the cost of health care for, as they've been called, "fat bastards".

With the government option still a long shot I bet with enough of these cost raising criteria that all the insurance companies will come to champion this Bill. They can get policy provisions through the government they would never attempt unilaterally. Of course healthy, weight height proportionate (per the US Government) will see reduced rates. How many fall within those guidelines?

Wonder if eventually all vendors will follow this government sectioned example? CM will be 'free' as long as you aren't overweight.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 32

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:12:58 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth CM will be 'free' as long as you aren't overweight.

Boy, the forums will be a dull place with only beth, Andalusite, Ialdaboth, and Nihilus posting.

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:15:26 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

And Greedy, of course. Christ, she'll kill me with that rake!

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 34

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:32:24 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Well now, I guess it may not be politically correct to ostracize fat people, but apparently in the current version of the health care Bill, it will be okay to charge them more. Hell, remember the thread about the overweight baby? I guess Congress did and thought it was a good idea to use it to get the insurance companies to support the Bill.

Wonder if that will become a common practice. Will there be a monthly 'weigh in' prior to paying a premium? A chest x-ray to make sure you haven't smoked? A blood test to verify your mayonaise, bacon, and butter intake influenced cholesterol? Well I guess the government could also tax those evil items to offset the cost of health care for, as they've been called, "fat bastards".

Of course, it isn't like a noble and unbeauracratic health insurer has ever done any of that, is it? Perish the thought.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 35

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:50:45 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Of course, it isn't like a noble and unbeauracratic health insurer has ever done any of that, is it? Perish the thought.

Where is that represented?

However now, championing for the passage of this Health Care Bill, you are supporting these terrible health insurer practices when executed by the government. However, if you have no problem with that, why not just eliminate any restrictive regulation or scrutiny on the existing programs? The pragmatic result of this practice become law will be that the insurer can set high prices based upon statistical results indicating there is more risk. Fat, smoking, where you live, age, congenital defects; all become reasons to greatly increase premium. Now those conditions are blended into the 'group' coverage in most employer paid plans. As an employer, I pay one price for my employees based upon a 'pool' calculated risk. Under this bill the responsibility, and increased cost, will consider the individual, as will the premium. Now that's something every insurance company would sign up for TODAY. Why is it all of a sudden 'progress' when, under this Bill, these practices will have government sanction?

"Perish the thought" but ultimately will this health care bill end up benefiting the insurance companies more than the citizens?

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 36

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 3:57:51 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

If it was going to benefit the insurance companies more than the citizens, the insurers would hardly be lobbying like mad and stirring up scare stories to try to kill it, would they?
The system you have at the moment would make a dog laugh: it'd be hard for any reforms to make it work any worse.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 37

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 7:16:56 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I won't mind paying more. We do that every 3 years anyway. I just believe that everyone will only have one option. If the profits are taken away from private companies they will fold. mike

Guess you missed the part that talked about how any company (and this pertained to all companies) who dropped the private carrier in favor of the government option in the first five years would face stiff penalties and fines.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 38

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 7:34:51 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
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Well I did go to the bar at 4:00 central time and I got a ride home at 9:00pm. We talked politics, go figure. I might even be going to dinner with Dick Cheney and Condalisa Rice next month. I will keep you liberals posted..

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 39

RE: You pay your insurance an it still don't matter - 10/16/2009 7:41:44 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

No need. the conservatives have shot themselves in the foot over this. While you were all listening to the "experts" on the original bill, who never read the bill but relied upon what they were told, or what they assumed, the bills have changed. This is no longer part of the bills being proposed. So, when the deregulation of the insurance industry does hit... and make no mistake, that is exactly where this is heading thanks to the Republican party, their lies, and the insurance industry making demands upon their "pocket" buddies in congress, your insurance will change. AT&T will have no incentive to keep your insurance as it is. Instead they, along with the rest, will be able to drop you like a hot rock as soon as the "little known name insurance companies" - who will be actually one of the big few with a different name to mask the reality - come along with cheaper rates for companies like AT&T, and fewer benefits.

Congrats

smiles

you did it!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 40

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