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RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:00:17 PM

angelikaJ

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lovingpet,

I do not know where (or if) this fits into this discussion.
I am positively compulsive about not taking anything anybody does for granted and I am grateful for everything.
Some people find it unnerving

Sometimes I wonder if it is "healthy" to make a big deal out of the smallest things... at which point does it become glorifying scraps?

(p.s. I am really glad you decided to take another run at this.)

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Post #: 21

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:09:07 PM

lovingpet

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Thanks! I know I didn't approach it right the first time, but now we've got a great discussion that I'm really enjoying a lot!

I think we can overpraise, but I think it is a risk I will usually take if the option is to underpraise. I think that's what makes our words important. It places special emphasis on things of unique meaning. Sometimes words are most reassuring. Other times it is the ability to just bask in the roar of the silence that brings solace. Maybe the way I look at it is that I work best when we each take ourselves for granted and appreciate each other entirely, trusting our well being to each other in the process. I doubt that's it either, but it is a start to my thinking process here.

lovingpet

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Post #: 22

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:21:51 PM

DesFIP

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I don't like being taken for granted. Not that I expect a song and dance for everything but if I've worked to make a great dinner, I want more than a grunt as he eats it. If I'm taken for granted, if I give and never get anything back, I will stop giving.

At the same time I try to make sure I don't take him for granted either.

There's a tendency in life to expect the good stuff and to focus only on the negative. That's very draining. In a relationship if all you get are complaints, it's a killer. Thanks babe, a smile, a pat, a kiss - these things take no time nor trouble and they mean so much.

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Post #: 23

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:31:39 PM

lovingpet

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Those small gestures really do mean a lot when they are needed. I am sure many people, myself included to some extent, would agree. I will ask you the same as I have others. Have you ever been thanked or otherwise shown appreciation for something that either he didn't allow you to do or you didn't feel was exactly praiseworthy, just doing what you do? How did you feel?

lovingpet

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Post #: 24

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:37:27 PM

NihilusZero

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The whole crux of this is interpretation, isn't it? Nevermind having to balance if there is appreciation being given in the first place, but having (if you genuinely care in an objective fashion) to determine if there are different 'currencies' of appreciation at play in a relationship.

I this much of this comes down to the authority dynamic. I find, in my own view, that this is why being on the submissive side of things requires a genuine natural propensity to serve and be subservient. That will dictate the appreciation. I've seen words of subs/slaves on here that indicate that just being able to be allowed to perform a service for their D-type is appreciation enough. As an s-type, if your motivation is actually serving, there is a heavy introspective responsibility, I think, to determine if you are measuring every instance of action/reaction in the dynamic by your measuring stick or the D-types because, ideally, the D-types appraisal is what is supposed to motivate you.

Not so say that all instances of feeling unappreciated will necessarily be bad, but I often see too much of this emotional quid pro quo belying what should be the natural cyclic process of subservience/leadership.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/16/2009 7:38:34 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 7:48:41 PM

NuevaVida

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NZ, having been in an unappreciative relationship, I can say at that time my motivation was to provide him pleasure, and seeing him satisfied was indeed my reward.

My circumstance is different now. Same motivation, but his satisfaction with the addition of his appreciation, is icing on an extremely sweet cake. It is night and day for me.

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Post #: 26

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:00:06 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

The whole crux of this is interpretation, isn't it? Nevermind having to balance if there is appreciation being given in the first place, but having (if you genuinely care in an objective fashion) to determine if there are different 'currencies' of appreciation at play in a relationship.

I don't know that this is really what I am look at though. I am not so much interested in if people feel they are appreciated within their relationships, though that has been a major thrust in this thread so far, but whether or not they want to be appreciated at all, in some areas and not others, or in all things in some fashion. The manner of expression is not really of all that much importance to me. Modes of expression are as varied as there are people. My own example in this thread shows a range of expressions from a mere two people.

quote:

I this much of this comes down to the authority dynamic. I find, in my own view, that this is why being on the submissive side of things requires a genuine natural propensity to serve and be subservient. That will dictate the appreciation. I've seen words of subs/slaves on here that indicate that just being able to be allowed to perform a service for their D-type is appreciation enough. As an s-type, if your motivation is actually serving, there is a heavy introspective responsibility, I think, to determine if you are measuring every instance of action/reaction in the dynamic by your measuring stick or the D-types because, ideally, the D-types appraisal is what is supposed to motivate you.

I understand this and it is what brought this question to mind in the first place. A submissive person will do many things without thought of it being anything special until it is treated as such. It wasn't the expression of appreciation he/she wanted. It was to be, do, or provide those services in the first place. That is what made my particular example poignant for me. I wanted to do what it just seemed natural to want to do for my partner. In the same breath, he denied me permission to do it (for appropriate and necessary reasons to my benefit) and yet thanked me for wanting to do them. I never needed those words and certainly didn't want them for having actually done absolutely nothing, but he bestowed them and I accepted them as gracefully as I could manage. I think in honoring his expression that was taking his measure over my own.

quote:

Not so say that all instances of feeling unappreciated will necessarily be bad, but I often see too much of this emotional quid pro quo belying what should be the natural cyclic process of subservience/leadership.

No, I have no interest in any sort of tit for tat trade personally. If folks are looking for equitable exchange and validation, this is likely not the best relationship for them. It is a giving everything on one side and a taking everything on the other. The times when these reverse are precious in and of themselves, but are so because they go against the grain of the natural flow, so they make a bit of a wave. Waves tend to have a great power to knock people off their feet.

lovingpet

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Post #: 27

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:03:26 PM

leadership527

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Not that I disagree with you exactly NZ. Everyone gets to define things for themselves, of course. But that's an awful lot of shoulds that you've got overlaid on what is, at it's core, a very simple thing. If one person gives commands and the other obeys, then D/s is occuring. Beyond that, it is all just flavor. Some masters may motivate their girls with a whip. Bully for them. I motivate with praise. It works for me.

Carol has a "genuine natural propensity to serve" as you put it. Hell, she was doing it long before I even understood that was what was going on. But as I found out to my own detriment (too busy with work to notice), she wilted given inadequate attention over the course of years. Even if someone's motivation is serving, even their primary motivation, I'm still going to guess that it is not enough for most people.

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Post #: 28

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:13:19 PM

NihilusZero

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Points taken. I mean, this is why I tried to put the initial focus on the currencies of appreciation and how (since appreciation is a two way street) you eventually have to either find someone who communicates it in the ways you want/need (even if that means not needing to) or have someone who is willing to get into a thorough discussion to where there is an understanding of both appreciation dialects.

I'm certainly not arguing for 'no appreciation', but there really is no functional difference (that I can see) between "no appreciation" and "appreciation that is not recognized".

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Post #: 29

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:27:47 PM

lovingpet

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I already brought that up in post #15. Expressions that cannot be understood as such wind up amounting to the same as no expression at all. I can agree there absolutely.

lovingpet

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Post #: 30

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:38:23 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

As an s-type, if your motivation is actually serving, there is a heavy introspective responsibility, I think, to determine if you are measuring every instance of action/reaction in the dynamic by your measuring stick or the D-types because, ideally, the D-types appraisal is what is supposed to motivate you.

this is where i had a problem with this idea. because my measuring stick could be inaccurate and maybe i'm wanting it my way and not allowing Him to express Himself in the fashion He's most comfortable with. does this imply that He failed to do so, or am i merely focusing on the fact that it didn't occur the way i wanted, expected, and/or anticipated it should? perhaps my thinking is different. i just don't feel it is appropriate for one in my station. your opinions mirror mine and those i converse with.

quote:

Not so say that all instances of feeling unappreciated will necessarily be bad, but I often see too much of this emotional quid pro quo belying what should be the natural cyclic process of subservience/leadership.

nor am i advocating gross negligence either. but i find that these things usually spiral out of control and balloon quickly. since it is consensual service i refer to the service profession for a reality check. there are moments when a person will express their gratitude, other instances when that will not occur. if my joy in the exchange is dependent upon these things or heavily influenced by their absence it is possible i'm in the wrong environment.

some people simply are not verbally demonstrative, but i'd gather that would have revealed itself long before topics of this nature come about. assuming it isn't an abrupt turnabout, the qualities were always there, but didn't prohibit the progression of the partnership. why complain now? sometimes we make our bed and refuse to see the linens when doing so, only to find them ill fitting later on.

porcelaine

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Post #: 31

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 8:51:00 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
if my joy in the exchange is dependent upon these things or heavily influenced by their absence it is possible i'm in the wrong environment.

Ah but see here is where you are speaking of a different motivation. Lovingpet and I are both saying the motivation is the same - making his life better - and that is where our joy is derived. What is quoted above is the idea that the appreciation is one's motivation to serve. And with that I'd agree with you - if I were serving simply to obtain some sort of reward (appreciation being viewed as a reward here), then indeed I'd be misplaced.

The examples Lovingpet and I gave are that of feeling appreciated even when we didn't think it was warranted. And learning to accept such appreciation because he wants to give it, being somewhat awkward in doing.

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Post #: 32

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 9:06:19 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The examples Lovingpet and I gave are that of feeling appreciated even when we didn't think it was warranted. And learning to accept such appreciation because he wants to give it, being somewhat awkward in doing.

i would see the refusal to accept such as a blockage in the current. there are some that simply cannot receive and i view that as very unbalanced. as for whether the appreciation was warranted or not, that isn't mine to state. i was taught to be gracious and allow people to express their gratitude in the manner they felt most appropriate. a failure to acknowledge or question it would be almost an insult. the spirit of giving and receiving can flow beautifully when unhampered on both ends.

porcelaine

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Post #: 33

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 9:14:17 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The examples Lovingpet and I gave are that of feeling appreciated even when we didn't think it was warranted. And learning to accept such appreciation because he wants to give it, being somewhat awkward in doing.

i would see the refusal to accept such as a blockage in the current. there are some that simply cannot receive and i view that as very unbalanced. as for whether the appreciation was warranted or not, that isn't mine to state. i was taught to be gracious and allow people to express their gratitude in the manner they felt most appropriate. a failure to acknowledge or question it would be almost an insult. the spirit of giving and receiving can flow beautifully when unhampered on both ends.

porcelaine

I'm workin on it, sheesh! LOL I have had my hands full trying to learn to take a compliment properly. I'm getting around to it. I did my best and that's gonna hafta be good enough for now.

lovingpet

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RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 9:35:22 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I'm workin on it, sheesh! LOL I have had my hands full trying to learn to take a compliment properly. I'm getting around to it. I did my best and that's gonna hafta be good enough for now.

your effort and willingness to try says a lot. we each have things we have to tweak. at the very least you're trying.

porcelaine

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Post #: 35

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/16/2009 10:16:40 PM

lucylucy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

He wouldn't let me do his laundry last weekend. I sat there like...wha??? As though he had taken something away from me. Oh brother!

That's funny because my boyfriend did the exact same thing to me. I've been doing his laundry for months and at first I hated it (not for any good reason, just that I don't particularly enjoy doing laundry), but then after a few weeks, I started actually taking pride in doing his laundry. Then, a couple weeks ago, my washing machine broke and he said to not worry about his laundry. I was planning to take his with mine to the laundromat. When he said not to, I felt EXACTLY as you said, like he was taking something away from me. Crazy.

(He bought me a new washer this weekend, so I guess I'm back on laundry duty.)

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Post #: 36

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 12:04:29 AM

Justme696

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fr

If both people do as much for eachother...you can take most for granted in my opinion.
But if you do something special.......some appreciation....even a simple kiss on the cheek...is not bad.

People have the tendency to take for granted when you do to much for them. They don't seem to recoqnize "normal"and "special" anymore. Appreciation will slowly fade to take for granted

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Post #: 37

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:01:05 AM

DesFIP

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Oh certainly there are things he's been grateful for that I don't think are worth thanks. But that comes from his past relationship where, by the end, they were living in an armed camp. He was so used to not getting anything that minor stuff, like me remembering he likes chunky chocolate chip cookies instead of the smaller chips was major to him. To me it's minor, just buy one package instead of the other.

And yes, me being willing to do things for him, even if he doesn't think I should do that, has elicited the warm fuzzies. But as I said, this comes from his past relationships, not from this one.

As far as porcelaine's belief that the dominant sets the tone on appreciation and the sub just takes it, I disagree. If we were that far apart in what we need versus what the other is willing to give, then I wouldn't be with him. I need a high level of compatibility in my relationship. Without it we wouldn't have gotten to a power relationship.

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RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:58:29 AM

oceanwyndsLoves

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Hi Lovingpet
First thank you for rewording and reposting your thread, it is very much appreciated. On the topic, i don't really think on the lines of being taken for granted, because i have no expections from others in what I do. If I am doing something for Sir, it is because of a couple reasons-1. It is in my basic personality to do things for others, and especially Sir. 2. it is expected from me 3. I get a lot of enjoyment in doing things for others. The 3rd one is also how I live my life for all people involved in my life and not. An example of this is smiling at a stranger, saying hi to someone who I do not know that looks like they could use a hug. In all 3 examples, I do not wait to be told what I do is appreciated.

Receiving words of gratitude though is a difficult one for me to handle, and have been working on this. I rather do something without anyone's attention to the fact I did it.With all that said, What I have also been working on is silently appreciating myself and finding the joy in the simple things I do in life.

Blessings
oceanwynds

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Post #: 39

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 5:08:57 AM

kyraofMists

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I took a course years ago about Six Sigma (a systematic approach to eliminating issues in products and services). One of the topics was on showing appreciation to clients or consumers and that there were diminishing returns. What you do today for a customer may delight them. However you may have also raised their expectations and doing the same thing for them tomorrow may cause them to feel neutral in regards to what they have received or if you don't do it for them, they may be disappointed in your service.

For me, having a healthy balance (I seem to be using that word a lot lately) between him showing appreciation and not showing it is crucial in not building unrealistic expectations. He will intentionally behave in ways that is unusual just to make sure that there are no unrealistic expectations on mine and Alandra's part. After LadyPact's thread on accepting service with grace, he started using a lot of "please" and "thank you" and really just behaving in a very unusual manner for him and Alandra and I would just look at him like he had lost his mind. Of course, he took great delight in twisting us up that way.

I remember one afternoon, sitting in the livingroom and our youngest daughter comes in and says "Kyra, daddy is making his own lunch!!!" and she was all stressed out over it. I walked into the kitchen and watched him make his lunch and then clean up after himself. He looked up at me, grinned and said "do you feel useless?" I just smiled and shook my head no. He delights in twisting us up and I delight in thwarting it *eg*

Being taken for granted is a whole other issue and I don't really see it as the opposite of showing appreciation. I feel taken for granted when I am not getting my needs met in the relationship. Feeling taken for granted for isn't a lack of appreciation for what I do, but a lack of appreciation for who I am. Showing appreciation for things I do isn't going to fix a feeling of being taken for granted in my relationship unless I am appreciated for who I am. That comes because my value is not in what I do, but in who I am. I need to be in a relationship with someone who appreciates my value as a person and not value me for what I do.

Knight's Kyra

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Post #: 40

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