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RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 5:57:56 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Feeling taken for granted for isn't a lack of appreciation for what I do, but a lack of appreciation for who I am.
Knight's Kyra

I like this. A very valid point.

At the same time, if I'm knocking myself out day in and day out, and never get any appreciation or recognition of my efforts, the day will come when I won't want to work that hard. If you go above and beyond the requirements at your job, you will expect recognition when yearly bonuses are awarded. If your boss gives the bonus money not to those who have earned it but to those who are his cronies, the rest will stop working that hard.

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Post #: 41

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 6:06:57 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Feeling taken for granted for isn't a lack of appreciation for what I do, but a lack of appreciation for who I am. Showing appreciation for things I do isn't going to fix a feeling of being taken for granted in my relationship unless I am appreciated for who I am. That comes because my value is not in what I do, but in who I am. I need to be in a relationship with someone who appreciates my value as a person and not value me for what I do.

you really tied this up well and touched upon an important factor that hasn't been mentioned, and that's the state of the individual which heavily influences what she feels and her perceptions as well. i also appreciated the comment regarding balance, because routine can inspire expectations unknowingly. having a hodgepodge of experiences that require one to remain in the moment and alert is always better.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 42

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 6:46:34 AM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
At the same time, if I'm knocking myself out day in and day out, and never get any appreciation or recognition of my efforts, the day will come when I won't want to work that hard. If you go above and beyond the requirements at your job, you will expect recognition when yearly bonuses are awarded. If your boss gives the bonus money not to those who have earned it but to those who are his cronies, the rest will stop working that hard.

But I don't view employer/employee dynamics the same as intimate relationship dynamics. My comments were about intimate relationships. I could care less if my boss appreciates me for who I am; I care that they appreciate my work. My boss, doesn't really have any idea about who I am as a person, she only perceives what I show her and that is extremely limited. For me, the expectations of a work dynamic are completely different than the expectations of my intimate relationships. Of course, I also don't like my job. I don't find it very fulfilling; it is a means to an end. I do the work that is required of me and then I go home. If I felt like that in my relationship, I would not be in it.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 43

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 7:54:06 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
I'm workin on it, sheesh! LOL I have had my hands full trying to learn to take a compliment properly. I'm getting around to it. I did my best and that's gonna hafta be good enough for now.

*laughs* With Carol I had to go back to basics.

OK, stop. Listen to me mine. The proper response to a compliment is "thank you." The proper response to "thank you" is "you're welcome".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 44

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 8:49:03 AM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Feeling taken for granted for isn't a lack of appreciation for what I do, but a lack of appreciation for who I am.
Knight's Kyra

I like this. A very valid point.

It was a gem, and very much was I was talking about (but didn't say so well) in my first post on this thread, that the way he is with me shows me all the appreciation I need. In other words, he appreciates me, whether or not appreciation for what I do exists. I didn't think of it that way until kyra said it.

It may be that I do not consider myself to be solely property but I am also disagreeing with the notion that the "D-type" decides how much or little appreciation to give and the "s-type" should simply deal with it. My personality is now such that, if I am under appreciated as a person for a prolonged period of time, the D-type will find himself to be an "alone-type". I will not spend the last half of my life suffering as I did the first half. I know that's not what I was put here for.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

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Post #: 45

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 9:27:02 AM

agirl

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It depends entirely on WHAT is being taken for granted. It's totally taken for granted that I will do all SORTS of things.There comes a time when there should be a *taking for granted*, as it's an expectation. I take it for granted that M will do ALL sorts of things too.

He's significant to me , I'm significant to him. When people talk about being taken for granted or needing or wanting appreciation, it's usually because they are feeling less than significant at that time.

There are times when I FEEL less than appreciated, whether that's with M, the children or anyone close............. but it's situational, momentary stuff and is usually just a mismatch of expectations (usually from MY side). But to be honest, I FEEL a lot of things.... that doesn't make it so, though.

Basically, if I couldn't manage to feel significant , I'd makes moves to leave in my mind......and where my mind goes, my body follows.

So, in every single deep relationship I have, there are moments when I FEEL unappreciated in the MOMENT, even though I'm not.

That's because I'm ..... a little bit human.

agirl

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 46

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 9:51:49 AM

catize

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quote:

other times when I really don't want any thanks because I don't feel like I did anything worthy of it at all.

I don’t see it as a question of whether or not my actions or words are ‘worthy’ of notice and appreciation. I enjoy it when someone receives what I do and who I am in a positive light. In turn, that makes me appreciate them because they took the time to let me know.
Many years ago I had a client who would say, “Thank you for thanking me.” To accept someone’s admiration or approval with grace is a way to reciprocate their appreciation.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 47

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 1:14:37 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Actually, you nailed my question exactly. Some people really get off on either the praise or the taken for granted thing. For some people it is a mix and in some areas they really need and thrive on the praise whereas in others the last thing they want is recognition. I just noticed for myself that there are times when I do things and it goes completely unnoticed and it angers me greatly and other times when I really don't want any thanks because I don't feel like I did anything worthy of it at all. I was just interested to see what others' take were on this.

lovingpet

I can say that in the past, what kept me knowing that I was 'appreciated' was the fact that I was not kicked out the door.

That was more than enough for me.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 48

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 1:29:15 PM

lucylucy

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Joined: 3/1/2009
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Generally, I try to do nice things, things that I know will make his life easier and more fulfilling, without thinking about whether those things will be specifically recognized and I’ll be thanked for them. There’s a famous quote that I can’t find at this moment about how true charity or service is done without desire for recognition. I try to do that with contributions to charitable organizations, for example, by not signing my name when possible.

My boyfriend will often give me a kind of blanket thank you, along the lines of, “Thanks for taking such good care of me.” I love that. To me, it means that he isn’t itemizing what I’ve done and keeping score. Instead, he’s enjoying a life that is quietly made better for him by me.

When he does thank me for something specific that I’ve done, I often respond awkwardly. He’ll sometimes compliment a dinner I’ve made and I usually mumble, “Glad you liked it.” The specific thank yous are hard for me to deal with. I feel like saying, “Well, of course I made you a good dinner, what did you expect?”

Having said all this, I have bad days where I think to myself, “Does he not notice how much I’m doing????” But this is just me having bad day, and thankfully, that doesn’t happen often, and I usually come to my senses quickly.

I show appreciation to him in generally two ways. I’m very good at please and thank you. The more important way I show appreciation is to be conscious of all he does for me, not in a “what have you done for me lately” kind of way, but more like this: when I have a good day at work and feel confident about taking criticism, I acknowledge to myself that one reason I am able to do that is that he has taught me how to take criticism.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 49

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 3:07:53 PM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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I believe this is the one you are looking for:
“True charity is the desire to be useful to others without thought of recompense.” Emanuel Swedenborg
However, I don’t think of the desire to be useful to a dominant as charity. In any personal relationship, whether it is D/s or not, most of us need some type of acknowledgment that what we do is important to the other person. However they choose to do it, getting a sense that they are pleased or satisfied goes a long way in keeping the relationship strong.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to lucylucy)

Post #: 50

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:19:58 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwyndsLoves

Hi Lovingpet
First thank you for rewording and reposting your thread, it is very much appreciated.

Ironic, no? Thanks! I knew it could be a worthwhile discussion if I could frame it a little better.

quote:

On the topic, i don't really think on the lines of being taken for granted, because i have no expections from others in what I do. If I am doing something for Sir, it is because of a couple reasons-1. It is in my basic personality to do things for others, and especially Sir. 2. it is expected from me 3. I get a lot of enjoyment in doing things for others. The 3rd one is also how I live my life for all people involved in my life and not. An example of this is smiling at a stranger, saying hi to someone who I do not know that looks like they could use a hug. In all 3 examples, I do not wait to be told what I do is appreciated.

Receiving words of gratitude though is a difficult one for me to handle, and have been working on this. I rather do something without anyone's attention to the fact I did it.With all that said, What I have also been working on is silently appreciating myself and finding the joy in the simple things I do in life.

Blessings
oceanwynds

That is what makes it difficult for me to accept for the most part. It isn't as though it were something special I did and I knew it and was just waiting with palm out for my thank you or whatever. The things that seem to elicit thanks the most are things that have more to do with me being me and doing what comes naturally. In some ways, I guess one could say I used to be flat out nasty about it and just shrug off their praise or dismiss my own efforts as no big deal. I am only marginally better now in that I will uncomfortably nod and smile, but usually can't manage to verbally respond in kind. I know half the time I blush at such things and it feels about the same as stage fright. I don't have any idea what to do and I'm caught in the headlights completely stunned.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

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Post #: 51

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:44:31 PM

lovingpet

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I think there's a line out there between expected and expectations. Certain behaviors become a part of the basic codex of responses from a given individual. If you throw a mouse on me I will scream every single time. If I see a little mouse in a cage I will coo over it every single time. It comes to be expected that x will bring y response while a will bring b response. Expectations have more to do with placing a value on the response while ignoring that the stimulus x can be variable in the first place and that catalyst c can change everything for the worse or the better. You never know for sure if you have c interacting with your a or x because it is not necessarily deriving from you.

That being said, I do think most people need to be valued for who they are if not for what they do. There are a few, and yes some folks come to mind, that do not need this in a form that is quite as orthodox. It is entirely possible for my partne to not value what I do simply because there are plenty of other people who can do the same thing and maybe can even do it better than I can. What is of value is that it is coming from my hands and my drive and desire to care for him.

Some things will nearly always get special note simply because, for me, they are extraordinary effort despite it being natural for me to put it forth willingly and with no real expectations. He is well aware of these areas and honors me as a person by recognizing the difficulty that I put aside for him. He may be thanking me for picking up the toys at the end of a session, but it is a recognition of how difficult that is given my health and the added issues that are a result of post play conditions. The fact that he gets me in that way and gives that some deference warms me though it can be painful just in that I am wishing I could do more. It only all conspires me to reach a bit deeper and shoot a little higher even if I know it is out of reach.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

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Post #: 52

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:48:10 PM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
I'm workin on it, sheesh! LOL I have had my hands full trying to learn to take a compliment properly. I'm getting around to it. I did my best and that's gonna hafta be good enough for now.

*laughs* With Carol I had to go back to basics.

OK, stop. Listen to me mine. The proper response to a compliment is "thank you." The proper response to "thank you" is "you're welcome".

My gracious, she and I are two peas in the proverbial pod!!!! You sure I'm not her long lost sister or something? LOL

He reminds me of the same thing. Of course, he gets a bit of a kick when I am finding it particularly ackward and I choke up and have a tear or two trying to get out the words. He's sadistic like that though.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

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Post #: 53

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 4:57:55 PM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

Generally, I try to do nice things, things that I know will make his life easier and more fulfilling, without thinking about whether those things will be specifically recognized and I’ll be thanked for them. There’s a famous quote that I can’t find at this moment about how true charity or service is done without desire for recognition. I try to do that with contributions to charitable organizations, for example, by not signing my name when possible.

My boyfriend will often give me a kind of blanket thank you, along the lines of, “Thanks for taking such good care of me.” I love that. To me, it means that he isn’t itemizing what I’ve done and keeping score. Instead, he’s enjoying a life that is quietly made better for him by me.

When he does thank me for something specific that I’ve done, I often respond awkwardly. He’ll sometimes compliment a dinner I’ve made and I usually mumble, “Glad you liked it.” The specific thank yous are hard for me to deal with. I feel like saying, “Well, of course I made you a good dinner, what did you expect?”

Having said all this, I have bad days where I think to myself, “Does he not notice how much I’m doing????” But this is just me having bad day, and thankfully, that doesn’t happen often, and I usually come to my senses quickly.

I show appreciation to him in generally two ways. I’m very good at please and thank you. The more important way I show appreciation is to be conscious of all he does for me, not in a “what have you done for me lately” kind of way, but more like this: when I have a good day at work and feel confident about taking criticism, I acknowledge to myself that one reason I am able to do that is that he has taught me how to take criticism.

It is partly that it isn't an itemized list that I like that response, but also that it is honoring my intent at the same time. It recognizes that I didn't do this to get this moment of praise from him. It was truly all about taking care of him and just wanting him to be happy. I actually hate it when someone thanks me with the insinuation that I only gave to get. It is a sideways "compliment" when my motives are put in question like that.

I agree that honoring the way he has shaped me is probably the best way I can honor him. I know what I was like before. I know how far I have come and what an influential role he had in that. It doesn't hurt to sometime say those things as well. Mostly though, I think the fact that when I am with him, he can demonstrably see that I am at "home" and at peace is what drives him. After all he does with and to me, it has to speak volumes to just have that automatic, unconscious reaction of just letting go and placing my whole world in his hands.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

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Post #: 54

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 5:02:18 PM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Actually, you nailed my question exactly. Some people really get off on either the praise or the taken for granted thing. For some people it is a mix and in some areas they really need and thrive on the praise whereas in others the last thing they want is recognition. I just noticed for myself that there are times when I do things and it goes completely unnoticed and it angers me greatly and other times when I really don't want any thanks because I don't feel like I did anything worthy of it at all. I was just interested to see what others' take were on this.

lovingpet

I can say that in the past, what kept me knowing that I was 'appreciated' was the fact that I was not kicked out the door.

That was more than enough for me.

Part of what came to mind was folks like you and how exactly you process that. I am not even sure how to ask my question, but I guess something along the lines of was it fulfilling to you to be "taken for granted"? How did it communicate appreciation to you? Was it partly because, in doing so, he was recognizing who and what you were and what you needed? Or was the fulfillment in that he simply didn't care what you needed or what gave you the warm fuzzies? Sorry, lots of questions there, but it is a mindset that I partly resonate with and partly find fascinatingly alien to me.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

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Post #: 55

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 5:23:29 PM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

I am not even sure how to ask my question, but I guess something along the lines of was it fulfilling to you to be "taken for granted"?

You are missing something important though. I was NOT taken for granted. I knew what my place in that household was, I knew what was expected of me by him. He showed his appreciation every single day by NOT telling me to leave because I was not fulfilling my part of the bargain. If I had been coming up short in any area, believe me, I would have been gone very fast with a 'sorry but it's not working and you know why'.

I guess what was so different with us was that I did not require all those little extra's that so many others seem to require. I knew he cared for me simply because of the fact that he kept me. I did not need a pat on the back for a job well done; I did not need a smile of thanks. All I needed from him was affirmation that I was doing what was expected of me, and I got that by being allowed to stay.

I know it's hard for others to comprehend, but, it's just the way my own personality is; but even more important, OUR personalities complimented each other.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 56

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/17/2009 5:38:02 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I am not even sure how to ask my question, but I guess something along the lines of was it fulfilling to you to be "taken for granted"?

You are missing something important though. I was NOT taken for granted. I knew what my place in that household was, I knew what was expected of me by him. He showed his appreciation every single day by NOT telling me to leave because I was not fulfilling my part of the bargain. If I had been coming up short in any area, believe me, I would have been gone very fast with a 'sorry but it's not working and you know why'.

I guess what was so different with us was that I did not require all those little extra's that so many others seem to require. I knew he cared for me simply because of the fact that he kept me. I did not need a pat on the back for a job well done; I did not need a smile of thanks. All I needed from him was affirmation that I was doing what was expected of me, and I got that by being allowed to stay.

I know it's hard for others to comprehend, but, it's just the way my own personality is; but even more important, OUR personalities complimented each other.

That is why I put the taken for granted part in quotes. I know that, to you, he was meeting your needs. You expressed what I thought I understood behind this. For me the "extras" as you put it are not so much needed for the warm fuzzies of it. It is more a sense of security, of knowing where I stand. It would not be enough to be allowed to stay. The sand suddenly shifting would leave me in a bad way and it is not something I can really have hanging over my head the way it would feel to me that it was. I guess there could come that point where it really no longer felt that way, but I guess that is the hard part for me to imagine is how or when. It is probably something only experiencing it would clarify.

Thanks for giving me some further insight!

lovingpet

_____________________________

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Post #: 57

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/18/2009 11:49:38 AM

lucylucy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I believe this is the one you are looking for:
“True charity is the desire to be useful to others without thought of recompense.” Emanuel Swedenborg
However, I don’t think of the desire to be useful to a dominant as charity. In any personal relationship, whether it is D/s or not, most of us need some type of acknowledgment that what we do is important to the other person. However they choose to do it, getting a sense that they are pleased or satisfied goes a long way in keeping the relationship strong.

That's not the exact quote I was thinking of, but the idea is very close.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 58

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/18/2009 12:01:37 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
It may be that I do not consider myself to be solely property but I am also disagreeing with the notion that the "D-type" decides how much or little appreciation to give and the "s-type" should simply deal with it.

*laughs* Why do you have an issue with this. Seems to me that is completely how it goes. Sadly, what a lot of people may not remember is that one way to "deal with it" is for the S-type to say, "Fuck you I'm out of here."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 59

RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/18/2009 6:34:51 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
It may be that I do not consider myself to be solely property but I am also disagreeing with the notion that the "D-type" decides how much or little appreciation to give and the "s-type" should simply deal with it.
*laughs* Why do you have an issue with this. Seems to me that is completely how it goes. Sadly, what a lot of people may not remember is that one way to "deal with it" is for the S-type to say, "Fuck you I'm out of here."

It is the option most difficult to exercise, however, in a great many of cases. I agree though that is the one option that is always available. I don't know if I am glad or if I am concerned that more people don't use it.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 60

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