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RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/19/2009 4:38:08 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I still wanted to explore this concept, but without the extraneous bits of personal stuff tainting things. My questions remain the same. Where does the balance lie for you? What circumstance can take what is normally perceived as good and turn it bad? How does it affect your relationships, especially those with a power exchange dynamic?

lovingpet


Both peoples needs must be met otherwise the relationship will fail it is just that simple. there are some submssives/slaves that may feel , for whatever reason, having their needs met is not required and if that works for them fine.


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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/19/2009 5:22:52 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I agree that for most couples this is more or less true, Acer. My question more stems from the concept of one partner being uncomfortable with accepting the gratitude of the other for any number of reasons. Mostly, we have discussed that the person should be trying to handle it with grace. It seems like a difficult thing for a lot of people. This seems especially so when it is a thank you for something that they didn't actually get to do, as in my example, or doing something that seemed so natural, unimportant, etc. I am also still wondering if it can run the other way too? Most of the people demonstrating this sort of issue have been submissive, but I am curious if it can be a problem for dominant people as well when the submissive thanks them for something that didn't seem like a big deal.

lovingpet

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(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/19/2009 11:36:47 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
It may be that I do not consider myself to be solely property but I am also disagreeing with the notion that the "D-type" decides how much or little appreciation to give and the "s-type" should simply deal with it. 
*laughs* Why do you have an issue with this. Seems to me that is completely how it goes. Sadly, what a lot of people may not remember is that one way to "deal with it" is for the S-type to say, "Fuck you I'm out of here."



It is the option most difficult to exercise, however, in a great many of cases. I agree though that is the one option that is always available. I don't know if I am glad or if I am concerned that more people don't use it.

lovingpet



I know that in my past, it was not an option (mentally or emotionally) for me.  I am doubtful this will be the case in my future.  My future will fall short of ever repeating my past.  Sometimes "Fuck you I'm out of here" is an entirely appropriate way of dealing with a situation.

My disagreement (above) was the idea that one ought to live one's life out miserably.  When one's humanness is taken for granted (as opposed to tasks), it can lead to some very dark places.  I don't agree that "Too bad, it's what's your owner wants" is the answer to that.  I'm not sure anyone was actually saying that, but I have seen that sentiment rather adamantly expressed before, so it came to mind in my last response.


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(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/20/2009 7:48:32 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
It may be that I do not consider myself to be solely property but I am also disagreeing with the notion that the "D-type" decides how much or little appreciation to give and the "s-type" should simply deal with it. 
*laughs* Why do you have an issue with this. Seems to me that is completely how it goes. Sadly, what a lot of people may not remember is that one way to "deal with it" is for the S-type to say, "Fuck you I'm out of here."



It is the option most difficult to exercise, however, in a great many of cases. I agree though that is the one option that is always available. I don't know if I am glad or if I am concerned that more people don't use it.

lovingpet



I know that in my past, it was not an option (mentally or emotionally) for me.  I am doubtful this will be the case in my future.  My future will fall short of ever repeating my past.  Sometimes "Fuck you I'm out of here" is an entirely appropriate way of dealing with a situation.

My disagreement (above) was the idea that one ought to live one's life out miserably.  When one's humanness is taken for granted (as opposed to tasks), it can lead to some very dark places.  I don't agree that "Too bad, it's what's your owner wants" is the answer to that.  I'm not sure anyone was actually saying that, but I have seen that sentiment rather adamantly expressed before, so it came to mind in my last response.




I have made the argument elsewhere that just because an option is theoretically available doesn't mean it has viability in a give set of circumstances. I think that is what you were experiencing in your previous relationships. The ability to leave was one of simple technicality because you couldn't handle the psychological/emotional impact of doing so. I would say that is where I am now with my partner. If such ties don't exist, then it is entirely possible that this option is active as a part of the possibilities when the need arises.

I am familiar with the sentiment you are discussing. It is the kinky equivalent of making your bed and, so, lying in it. I think folks have to own up to the consequences of their decisions, but there are also times when the consequence went well beyond what anyone expected. It would be like remaining in that bed when you discover that you are allergic to the cotton sheets. You may have made the bed with cotton sheets with no problem, but spending several nights in them proved toxic and detrimental. Stripping those sheets, replacing them with something that is healtier for you, and allowing the cotton ones to be appreciated on another's bed are really the best things anyone can do.

Some people are just toxic together. Toxic because they were not really all that compatible. Toxic because they had waaaaaaay too much in common. Toxic just because exposure over time ate away at what was once a good thing. Any number of reasons. I will never advocate a world where there are no acceptable reasons to walk away, but I do believe the circumstances must be pretty bleak to take such extreme action. I have ridden out people's toxicity as they have mine and found ourselves better for it. I have also stayed too long and was nearly destroyed. It is a delicate balance.

lovingpet



_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/20/2009 8:11:06 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Wishing to reply to this sentiment, i would like to add an additional thought. There are some of us s-types who crave, long for places of degradation or emotional sadism that others do not seek. i am one of those. However what i have found as i have gotten either older or more emotionally healthy or some combination of the two, that the emotional sadism that i used to crave, need, is now something that i can't do anymore. It is no longer something that feeds my submission or my need to submit, but rather tears at who i am and how i see myself. i think that is part of what NV was trying to describe.

heartfelt

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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

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(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/20/2009 9:10:36 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I can see this. I don't deal a whole terribly lot with humiliation and this type of emotional sadism, but I can see where it would be a cup that would eventually run over and lead to messy consequences. I have heard people talk of this before and it does seem to make a lot of sense to me. There are forms of humiliation and emotional sadism, but I don't get the sense that what we do is like this. I think it is a specific brand that has this long term effect. It is very interesting to consider though.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Appreciation vs. Taken for Granted Take 2 - 10/20/2009 10:58:08 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Wishing to reply to this sentiment, i would like to add an additional thought. There are some of us s-types who crave, long for places of degradation or emotional sadism that others do not seek. i am one of those. However what i have found as i have gotten either older or more emotionally healthy or some combination of the two, that the emotional sadism that i used to crave, need, is now something that i can't do anymore. It is no longer something that feeds my submission or my need to submit, but rather tears at who i am and how i see myself. i think that is part of what NV was trying to describe.

heartfelt


Hi heartfeltsub,

Your thinking is correct here.  The part I bolded is something I very much relate to now.  Without getting into much detail, I will simply say that kind of treatment is damaging to me now, and in fact, some of the treatment previously endured, while endured at the time, is something I still find myself processing and recovering from, quite some time later.

I realize there is a sect of the "bdsm community" which believes property is property and should endure whatever is put upon him/her, without issue.  I once believed it myself.  I now have a level of self-awareness that has brought me to understand my previous willingness to endure what I did, and to know it is not a position I would do well in again.  Interestingly enough, the emotional neglect was tougher than the actual degrading acts, hence my disagreement with the notion that one simply accept and deal with it. 

I speak for no one but myself here, but there are areas of neglect I will not endure again, nor will I accept and deal with.  Because of my past experience, I know I will give myself the ability to leave if I need to, and I know I will survive it. 

If I starve my cat, he will begin to die, and will leave in search of food, and I will have deserved to lose him.  If I am starved again, I will also leave in search of food - my desire to live is much stronger than it once was.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 67
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