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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 10/24/2009 10:02:53 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Its ok Brain, and thank you for the explanation.  Religion is one of those issues that can ruin a party quickly because so many feel so passionately about what they believe.

Im glad you are destressing your life!

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 10/28/2009 9:17:16 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53
I know there are college degrees in Divinity, I know a person can go to seminaries and be ordained, my question is, is there a degree for atheism or a place those who are atheists go to learn what they talk about?


No, to the best of my knowledge one can't get a degree in atheism and one certainly can't become an ordained minister of atheism. There are a number of groups out there as well as munches, there are also a number of net resources if your interested in finding out more about atheism:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
the founder knew it was a load of crap, and so (presumably) do the people who are currently running it. It's a power structure, a personality and a con trick, but it isn't a religion and never was.


Sorry to leave you hanging, I didn't want to derail the thread with this completely different topic, that and I don't actually care. My point is entirely semantic, it's just that there are dictionary definitions so vague that Scientology would certainly seem to count. Your main point seems to be that Scientology is a scam, I haven't been trying to contest you on that, I just don't see scam and religion as mutually exclusive things. I've gotten around to putting up a thread where the discussion would be on topic: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2874009/tm.htm







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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/13/2009 10:00:23 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

Atheists make up only 18% of our total population, why then can they get so much banned? What if we did to them what they do to us. Attack their beliefs. I read their is no such thing as a true atheisit because an atheist has no beliefs but these guys believe they are atheists. Oh by the way, I always celebrate your holiday. April Fools day. As God said, those who dont believe are fools. Jack in Tennessee who will be glad to see these people get booted out of Gods sight at the end time.


WoW?

What?

Homosexuals make up less than 10%.  Mexicans, Asians & Jews make up much less as well.

"What if we did to them what they do to us"

That is cute Jackie feels attacked.  Let me bake you some cookies.

As far as the comments from Steve-o....  Watch the video; I will bake you some cookies too.

Religion is dangerous.  The fact you are a nice little Jew does not change this.


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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 6:21:18 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

It's the fanatic belief in any of them to the exclusion of any other consideration, that generated the polarization, war, and hatred we saw in the past, and we are seeing the the present. Intolerance for any 'non-believer' or even a conflicting 'god' is why belief in any 'god' has been responsible for more pain, suffering, and death than any other plague.


Bravo!!

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 7:45:27 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But usually we see God’s miracles around us enough to restore our beliefs.

Butch



Let's not get started on this again.

Anything and everything is one of God's miracles in the eyes of the indoctrinated.



Not anything and everything.  Just the stuff that really is one of God's miracles, which I've witnessed enough of.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 7:50:25 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirlallow me to be clearer

Just because someone states they believe in god, doesnt make it true.

Just because someone claims the devil made them do it, doesnt abdicate their responsibilities.

You can sit there and point to all the deaths related to religion, and i can point to how religion was used to justify their deaths.

But, eh, you wont understand that concept.  Its not within the scope of what you wish to believe.


I knew eventually I'd agree with ya on something. ;)

Religion is a powerful influence...often used by the non-religious.  A lot of the worst atrocities caused by "religion" are simply the results of evil bastards using the concept of the religion in their power grabs.

Often times the motivation is obvious (Power, money, etc).  Other times, I think they're just crazy. :p  The Phelpses at Westboro for instance...IMO they should change the name of their church, because they're nothing more than a hate cult with little to do with actual Christianity.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 10:00:37 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		Moslem or Christian Mullah or Pope
Preachers or poet who was it wrote
Give any one species too much rope
And they'll fuck it up

-- Roger Waters, Too Much Rope.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 10:06:52 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

Atheists make up only 18% of our total population, why then can they get so much banned? . Attack their beliefs. I read their is no such thing as a true atheisit because an atheist has no beliefs but these guys believe they are atheists. Oh by the way, I always celebrate your holiday. April Fools day. As God said, those who dont believe are fools. Jack in Tennessee who will be glad to see these people get booted out of Gods sight at the end time.
"What if we did to them what they do to us". You mean like social and economic discrimination and violence against homosexuals?

Fundies only make up about 20 percent of the population, how is it they manage to do so much stuff that needs to be banned?



< Message edited by xssve -- 11/14/2009 10:09:39 AM >

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 3:43:36 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


By no stretch of the imagination do i consider Jim Jones a christian, nor the Bakers... nor Jimmy Swaggart... ect ect ect.  And its simple.  a christian follows the commandments.  one is.. do not steal.  well, we saw what happened with PTL.  another is do not lie.  ahem... Swaggart falls short in that catergory .  And im sure we all recall what Jim Jones did.

To make a mistake is one thing.  To deliberately do what these people did, with the knowledge of "christianity" that they possessed, is another.

<snip>


You bring up an interesting issue, tazzygirl. The Apostle Paul argued that a Christian is not so by doing good works. A Christian is one who believes in the redemptive Resurrection of Jesus. Jews are obedient to the commandments of the Covenant, not Christians. A Christian acts in a fashion because of his belief in Jesus. If he sins or goes astray but still believes in the Resurrection he is a Christian. Christians are not defined by their works but by their belief.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 4:00:24 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

Atheists make up only 18% of our total population, why then can they get so much banned? . Attack their beliefs. I read their is no such thing as a true atheisit because an atheist has no beliefs but these guys believe they are atheists. Oh by the way, I always celebrate your holiday. April Fools day. As God said, those who dont believe are fools. Jack in Tennessee who will be glad to see these people get booted out of Gods sight at the end time.
"What if we did to them what they do to us". You mean like social and economic discrimination and violence against homosexuals?

Fundies only make up about 20 percent of the population, how is it they manage to do so much stuff that needs to be banned?



Perhaps Jack forgets that right and wrong are not subject to democratic vote. Atheists make up only 18% (out of the closet) but it takes only one to stand before the Supreme Court and argue a Constitutional issue.

Furthermore, wrong on the statement that Atheists have no belief. They believe they have seen no verifiable evidence for the supernatural existence beyond the perceivable world of mass/energy. That is an affirmative belief. God and satan and all the little godlings are inventions of the frightened primative mind. The personality does not survive the death of the material brain. Those are Atheistic beliefs. And, oh yeah, when did God say that about non-believers being fools? Roll the tape for us on that one, Jack. Or is it only a few who hear god's voice?

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 4:25:34 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You bring up an interesting issue, tazzygirl. The Apostle Paul argued that a Christian is not so by doing good works. A Christian is one who believes in the redemptive Resurrection of Jesus. Jews are obedient to the commandments of the Covenant, not Christians. A Christian acts in a fashion because of his belief in Jesus. If he sins or goes astray but still believes in the Resurrection he is a Christian. Christians are not defined by their works but by their belief.


It seems to me that a Christian who acts in that fashion does so because of their belief in Paul, who never even met Jesus. It's a very popular belief, probably because it's much more convenient than actually doing what Jesus preached. Would it not be more appropriate to call someone who follows Paul and ignores Jesus a Paulian instead of a Christian?

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 4:28:11 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
Not anything and everything.  Just the stuff that really is one of God's miracles, which I've witnessed enough of.


Do tell, I'm all ears.


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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 6:27:32 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

Jack in Tennessee who will be glad to see these people get booted out of Gods sight at the end time.



...and yet another example of Jack living up to those fine Christian principles like 'love they neighbour'.

You know Jack, just between you and me, you may want to work on some of your issues a bit. If you are right and the Christian God is waiting for you when you die, he may have something to say about your apparent hatred for those who don't share your beliefs.

God is love, eh?

ETA

.....you remind me of the following old rhyme from Swift....

"We are God's chosen few
All others will be damned
There is no room in Heaven for you
We can't have Heaven crammed"

< Message edited by philosophy -- 11/14/2009 6:31:47 PM >

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 6:51:25 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
You bring up an interesting issue, tazzygirl. The Apostle Paul argued that a Christian is not so by doing good works. A Christian is one who believes in the redemptive Resurrection of Jesus. Jews are obedient to the commandments of the Covenant, not Christians. A Christian acts in a fashion because of his belief in Jesus. If he sins or goes astray but still believes in the Resurrection he is a Christian. Christians are not defined by their works but by their belief.


It seems to me that a Christian who acts in that fashion does so because of their belief in Paul, who never even met Jesus. It's a very popular belief, probably because it's much more convenient than actually doing what Jesus preached. Would it not be more appropriate to call someone who follows Paul and ignores Jesus a Paulian instead of a Christian?


Well, Paul disagrees with you. He said he had a rather powerful encounter with the risen Jesus. So, who am I to believe, GotSteel or Paul? Obvious choice if i have to make one.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps Christians should call themselves Paulian Christians if they care to follow Paul and emphasize belief in the redemption offered by the Resurrection. But that assumes there is an alternative Christian belief that does not believe in the centrality of the Resurrection for redemption and salvation. Are you saying that is the case? Are you saying there is another road to salvation for Christians? Please share it if so.

Paul was not much concerned with Jesus' temporal ministry. Jesus becomes important to Paul when he was resurrected or when the tomb was empty, whatever you care to believe. It is at that moment that Jesus becomes the Christ and Christianity begins.

Truthfully, i doubt Paul would have liked to have his name at the head of the Religion. Just my guess. But i have little doubt that Paul rejected the Hebrew Laws - circumcision and dietary mandates - as necessary for salvation. That's why he was able to spread the good news to the Pagans.

In his ministry Jesus preached the imminent End Times, the destruction of the old order and the coming of the new within the generation of his Disciples. He was hung for his threat to the Roman State. It was not what he did in life that made Jesus the Christ; it is what God did after Jesus died - resurrecting him. Seems to me that is the central Christian message that survives. Call it what you will. Good works are not the road to salvation. Those who are in salvation by Belief will do good works.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 8:46:10 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Well, Paul disagrees with you. He said he had a rather powerful encounter with the risen Jesus. So, who am I to believe, GotSteel or Paul? Obvious choice if i have to make one.


1. Paul claimed to have had a hallucination rather than physically meeting Jesus. Hallucinations aren't a reliable method of gaining information, a point that was driven home to our civilization by the Salem witch trials.

2. Presenting your options as Paul or I is a false dichotomy, there are other options for instance Jesus is supposed to have actually talked to some people and taught them some stuff: "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." (James 2:26)

3. Personally I'm an atheist; I'd rather you didn't believe any of the Biblical gibberish.

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 11:20:35 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The word itself means the opposite of a theist, one who believes in God. Plenty of other things to believe.

The nice thing about atheism is that you don't go to hell if you don't believe it.

K.


I think it would be easier to be a Christian.  I could run around killing people and causing general havoc.  Sure I would be jailed or executed.  But, like Hitler if I was truly sorry and accepted Jesus I would be forgiven and live in another dimension with JC & his pops for infinity and beyond(Buzz Lightyear).

Unlike a theist if I unintentionally or intentionally harm someone I must take action to repair the situation I desire.  All a theist needs to do is talk to their sky daddy or channel more waves of high pitch frequency.

The devil made me do it, it was gods will, god has an unknown plan, I do not know why god made me do X, god was punishing them through me, god was punishing me.  The excuses are as plentiful as seamen in sperm.

Theism is a crutch for the weak and typically ignorant who wish to remain free of earthly responsibility.

For some of the older generation it might be described as the walker.  For the more technological savvy geriatric patients it might be the hoverround(http://www.hoveround.com/landing/free-info-kit-1/)

It is the ultimate appeal to ignorance.



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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 11:28:59 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Furthermore, wrong on the statement that Atheists have no belief. They believe they have seen no verifiable evidence for the supernatural existence beyond the perceivable world of mass/energy. That is an affirmative belief.

Um. No. I know there has been no verifiable, replicable evidence of a creative supernatural being.

Despite the fact that most atheists are also freethinkers and skeptics on many other issues, it is not a prerequisite and plenty can have odd espousals of other weird phenomena.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 11/14/2009 11:29:18 PM >

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 11:32:26 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

It's the fanatic belief in any of them to the exclusion of any other consideration, that generated the polarization, war, and hatred we saw in the past, and we are seeing the the present. Intolerance for any 'non-believer' or even a conflicting 'god' is why belief in any 'god' has been responsible for more pain, suffering, and death than any other plague.


Bravo!!


While correct if we are to be honest with ourselves it is the non fanatic belief which allows the fanatic to survive.  For the same reason I would not tolerate a non-fanatic racist talking to my kid about why she needs to hate mud people I would find it equally disgusting for a non-fanatical theist to speak with her(Either side of the coin you step knee deep in absolute ignorance and bull crap).

Honestly any well intentioned theist says to the theist in religion 'X' my god is real yours is not.  I am not acting sinful you are.  I will not rot in hell you will.  My god created everything, not yours.  I am right  do not tell me I am wrong(says theist Y to theist X).  They both even have books to prove their correctness.  I will live in eternal happiness with all my loved ones you will not.  Although I have no evidence other than the same evidence you call upon to suggest to me your god is true you are not correct, I am.

That seems a smidgen fanatical to me. At very least very suggestive of a serious mental disorder(Delusional).


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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 11:34:41 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Theism is a crutch for the weak and typically ignorant who wish to remain free of earthly responsibility.

It can be, yes. Just as atheism can be a crutch for hateful little wretches who need to feel like they're smarter than everybody else.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/14/2009 11:35:58 PM >

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/14/2009 11:34:50 PM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

http://www.biblicalworldview21.org/Medicine/Summary_Principles_Medicine.asp

i didn't really read it

(it looked like a bunch of hooey)



It was worse - it was pooey.  Pooey hooey at that; I did read it.

Resources www.reformaton.net Scroll down to 17 Worldview Documents, click there, and then choose “The Christian Worldview of Medicine” www.bmei.org Our medical website that is comprehensive to virtually every medical ethical problem.


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