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RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:04:52 AM

Aileen1968

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I disagree. I don't think it matters one bit how long the relationship has been going on. Why would I change my style of communication whether we've been together for a year or two weeks? I have been blunt, yet completely honest with him from day one. Had he been the type that needed or wanted to hear flowing words then he would always be disappointed in me even if my words had the right message. He wouldn't be a match. It falls back into that whole concept of compatibility and communication.

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Post #: 61

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:10:18 AM

ranja

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can't or won't.... as He's coming toward me with this boogie on His finger i will just do a lot of begging and hope He will consider my pleas... and have mercy.... but if He insists i shall just hold my breath and swallow.... what doesn't kill me...

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 62

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:14:14 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I disagree. I don't think it matters one bit how long the relationship has been going on. Why would I change my style of communication whether we've been together for a year or two weeks? I have been blunt, yet completely honest with him from day one. Had he been the type that needed or wanted to hear flowing words then he would always be disappointed in me even if my words had the right message. He wouldn't be a match. It falls back into that whole concept of compatibility and communication.

your style of communication would be altered if you elected to serve someone with specific protocols relating to speech. we both know these can run the gamut from casual to formal. i don't believe it has anything to do with what you term flowing words, but merely illustrates another way of getting ones point across.

porcelaine

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Post #: 63

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:15:48 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

...is a submissive still considered submissive if s/he has hard limits that are based solely in personal preference?...

it depends on who you ask.

some folks consider a self-identified submissive that utilizes safe-words to be a switch.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 64

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:15:51 AM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

can't or won't.... as He's coming toward me with this boogie on His finger i will just do a lot of begging and hope He will consider my pleas... and have mercy.... but if He insists i shall just hold my breath and swallow.... what doesn't kill me...

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10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 65

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:15:54 AM

LaTigresse

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Using fast reply.....

For me, there had never be any "I won't" because at the time I am telling her to do, we are already past that. An "I can't" had better be followed by some really good explaining. Because if I told/asked her to do something, I did so with the knowledge that she was fully able. An "I can't" means there was a break down in communication.

As for delivery, tone, and all that rot.......at the point she is mine, she will know she is expected to speak her mind without any concern of how my fragile ego is going to perceive her intent. I am sorry, but if an s-type has to walk on egg shells about how she/he words things, the problem is NOT the s-type.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 66

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:17:43 AM

Aileen1968

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Nope. I wouldn't change because I wouldn't be in that kind of relationship. The way I talk and interact is part of what attracted him to me and the way he does all that is part of what attracted me to him. If he were to suddenly require me to change those types of things that are core to my personality, I would walk.
Trust me...I'd sound like Lurch from the Addams Family if I ever said Yes Master.

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Post #: 67

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:17:58 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I disagree. I don't think it matters one bit how long the relationship has been going on.

Sure it does. What creates a degree of latent comfort is the time thepeople involved have had to understand each other. Meaning, those parameters which were prone to becoming more lenient will yield in the way that anyone's natural self-restrictiveness will lessen over time as you open up more to your partner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Why would I change my style of communication whether we've been together for a year or two weeks? I have been blunt, yet completely honest with him from day one. Had he been the type that needed or wanted to hear flowing words then he would always be disappointed in me even if my words had the right message. He wouldn't be a match.

Well, this becomes one of the age old hypotheticals: is the style of communication so tantamount a thing that, upon being told he wanted you to communicate in such a way, you would not have made the effort to please by working on it because you would have considered the situation a 'no-match'?

Any words, casual or formal, can be "bad acting" if you can see it forced in the eyes of the speaker.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 68

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:21:13 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Nope. I wouldn't change because I wouldn't be in that kind of relationship. The way I talk and interact is part of what attracted him to me and the way he does all that is part of what attracted me to him. If he were to suddenly require me to change those types of things that are core to my personality, I would walk.
Trust me...I'd sound like Lurch from the Addams Family if I ever said Yes Master.

Much of the entire basis of the M/s dynamic is wrought from the concept of change as it pertains to the s-type doing it for the pleasure of the D-type.

So (winding back to the OP

) would you say to him:

"I can't change the way I talk and interact." or
"I won't change the way I talk and interact."

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 69

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:24:35 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

[The end result isn't necessarily the same. The result will depend entirely on what type of relationship you have.

An * I won't* would find me facing the activity at the very next opportunity. It would be foolish for me to say *I won't* because it'd ensure it WOULD happen.*I won't* would be a challenge if it came from ME, to HIM and we both would know it.

An * I can't* is ALWAYS met with a *Why can't you?* From there, he'd expect to hear all and any any relevant information......and then HE decides whether I *can't* or whether I *can*.

Here an I can't would be accepted since he knows I wouldn't lie to him. And a request for more information would be made.

An I won't would involve us discussing it once we were dressed and the threat of it being forced on me did not exist.

But no specific activity here is considered worth damaging the relationship or causing resentment which can easily be avoided simply by exploring what the problem is, or appears to be.

He ordered me once to do a table dance which got an I won't. When he asked why not, he damn near fell over laughing when I said I would fall off the table in those heels. Once the problem was solved, I did it. Hey, I've never been to a strip club, how was I to know?

But for us, the situation is always faced by asking for more information without an emotional overtone. It really doesn't matter to him if he does it today or in six months when I can do it as long as no damage is done to the relationship. So if it needed five minutes to explain or six months to get me over my fears, that's what would happen. Since he knows I would not refuse him for no reason.

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(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 70

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:25:52 AM

Aileen1968

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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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I pleasure him the most by honestly being who I am. to change that would mean I would be acting.

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Post #: 71

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:34:23 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I am sure there are Dominants here who will agree that especially in a long term relationship and even more one which is 24/7 TPE, the Dominant should know his or her slave well enough to know the areas which may come into contention and especially those which have a medical reason for not entering into that type of play. For me, those areas are more likely to be areas which I have no interest in and thus will not come up. If we looked at something which I may think of trying, I hope I'm smart enough to think it through and know how important or unimportant that activity is for me and out relationship before I start making demands. I apply this to daily interactions to btw. I just hope In never develop into one of those hard nosed demanding types I hear about. Such a thing would destroy the peace and harmony I wish to pervade my area of existence (in the most anyway)

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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Post #: 72

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:35:02 AM

LaTigresse

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Why would a man have chosen, if only to attempt to make her something other than her authentic self IF that authentic self is already serving him as he wants???

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 73

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:38:45 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Why would a man have chosen, if only to attempt to make her something other than her authentic self IF that authentic self is already serving him as he wants???

Well bingo!

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Post #: 74

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:40:28 AM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I pleasure him the most by honestly being who I am. to change that would mean I would be acting.

It depends.

If the primary motivation of my slave was to please and obey me, that will show through even if she's making faces like she's sucking a lemon while doing something uncomfortable. That would be her 'being who she is'.

There are surely degree that even most slaves will see as thresholds for when they are surrendering so much that they could be unsure as to whether they even have a persona anymore outside of the constructs the D-type creates, but manner of speaking and body language do not seem to me to be so important to personal 'being'. We teach children to speak and act with etiquette to the suppression of their "being". Fine dining establishments could see fit to show you the door for an insufficient degree of formal "being". If you enroll in any branch of the military, you're "being" gets flushed right out.

If everything is just a search for a perfect compatibility in which no difficulties will be brought to the table...in which no obstacles are present to overcome, what functional core submission is there?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 75

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:41:22 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Nope. I wouldn't change because I wouldn't be in that kind of relationship. The way I talk and interact is part of what attracted him to me and the way he does all that is part of what attracted me to him. If he were to suddenly require me to change those types of things that are core to my personality, I would walk.
Trust me...I'd sound like Lurch from the Addams Family if I ever said Yes Master.

this is interesting. however, what if it didn't come up at the onset and was something he desired later on? would you be willing to terminate the partnership based upon these principles or make some attempt to appease him instead?

porcelaine

< Message edited by porcelaine -- 10/19/2009 11:42:13 AM >

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Post #: 76

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:41:48 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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So are you saying that unless there is struggle, there is not "true" submission???

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 77

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:41:49 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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So you think submission has to be a struggle?

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Post #: 78

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:43:38 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Why would a man have chosen, if only to attempt to make her something other than her authentic self IF that authentic self is already serving him as he wants???

If the slave's authentic self is primarily to "be what I am" rather than to "serve and obey", then I wouldn't see what purpose her submission would play.

Really, we're asking the question of what lines (personally speaking) are "official" do-not's for d-types to demand.

If this is what we're arguing, then there is no difference between Can't and Won't and both are just as valid.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/19/2009 11:44:00 AM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 79

RE: Can't vs Won't - 10/19/2009 11:46:14 AM

IrishMist

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I am with Aileen on this one. If a certain style of speaking attracted him the first place, why should I change?

I can answer the last question you posted. In regards to myself, it would not matter if he, at a later date, demanded that I change my way of speaking. My answer would be the same. "Fuck you".

*shrug*

For some of us, it's not about becoming pleasing so that he never wants to get rid of us. It's about becoming ourselves and being allowed to embrace that.

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Post #: 80

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