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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:38:03 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They will have to abandon that, it seems. Sadly, I doubt that too many blacks or Asians will want to join after last night's performance, even after it does become possible.



Griffin is following the path of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the leader of the French National Front. In the eighties, eager for power and in an effort to appear legitimate, Le Pen morphed from an eyepatch-wearing thug who tortured during the Algerian war into a politician in a suit and tie. He adapted his discourse from extreme racism and antisemisitism to an obfuscation that his party is "pro-French". That's exactly what Griffin is doing, with his palid argument that he is fighting for "the English" (whoever they are). It's all the same shit, and Griffin is definitely the heir apparent to Le Pen's legacy: he has learnt well.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:41:47 AM   
Moonhead


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If you look at that link now that I've got it working, Kittin, there's a quote from Le Pen offering Griffin congratulations on his performance.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 6:43:18 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If you look at that link now that I've got it working, Kittin, there's a quote from Le Pen offering Griffin congratulations on his performance.



Thank you - I'm off to check out the Grauniad.

PS: just checked it out - it's unsurprising that Le Pen should stir the pot. However, there is a major difference that won't play in Griffin's favor: France is much more parochial and much more racist than Britain. Le Pen just had to tap into a pool of xenophobic resentment: he didn't have to create it. I think Griffin will have an uphill struggle precisely because Britain is so much more of a melting pot than France ever was.

I hope so, anyway.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/23/2009 6:46:48 AM >


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:00:05 AM   
LadyEllen


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Nevertheless, Griffin is appealing to something important with his insistence on English, British and so on - it is the lack of identity which the indiginous population feel in the age of multi-culturalism, where it seems that everyone else has an identity and this is protected and promoted by law, but the natives do not and thereby feel hard done by, (whether rightly or wrongly), even though were anyone to suggest an identity for them very few of them would agree with it due to the regional and local character of England and as a whole Britain.

From what I understand of the Anglo Saxon stock, I would be just about a perfect representation of an Anglo Saxon. I am as English as they come, despite the inevitable presence of a myriad other genetic influences no doubt within me. I would be legally English, if there were any such valid description in law. But I dont feel English - and this purely because even being English I have no real idea of what Englishness would be, not because of some terrible conspiracy to deny that to me but because even on the most cursory inspection I share little or nothing with those others, equally indigenous and equally English, in other parts of the country.

Yet it must be in our multi-cultural society that I have something which sets me apart from other ethnic groups and which I share with others from my ethnic group, otherwise what am I in that multi-cultural mix? Nothing. And therein lies part of the problem, with the remainder being made up by way of the only mechanism remaining to allow me an identity - the exclusion of others who are obviously from their appearance outside my group. Add to that sense of not belonging and defining oneself by reference purely to other identities a sense that those other identities are being promoted - and more than that that those of those identities are being supported because of that overall agenda, and the recipe is complete.

In short, we need to define what it means to be one of the indigenous population in the context of a multi-cultural society within the context of overall British identity shared between all populations. A difficult task no doubt, but one which is essential I feel in order to defuse at least this aspect of BNP sympathy.

E

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:07:04 AM   
kittinSol


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LadyE, it's up to individuals to find their own sense of purpose in life without constantly feeling like they need to belong to a national and/or ethnic group or other assorted football teams and WIs.

Typo edited  .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/23/2009 7:10:19 AM >


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:20:11 AM   
xBullx


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It is the human condition that drives people to wish to become part of a pack. You can deny that and attempt to impart a sense of superiorty that you don't need a pack and that you are an individual but all the same you belong and you need; all the while if left on your own you would, in time, cease to exist.

Deny your nature all you wish, but it's this arrogent denial of nature that has the world at large confused and misguided.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

LadyE, it's up to individuals to find their own sense of purpose in life without constantly feeling like they need to belong to a national and/or ethnic group or other assorted football teams and WIs.

Typo edited  .



< Message edited by xBullx -- 10/23/2009 7:21:54 AM >


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:29:48 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Deny your nature all you wish, but it's this arrogent denial of nature that has the world at large confused and misguided.



You are wrong: I speak from personal experience, and from convinction. Now, while you have the right to name your personal beliefs "nature", it doesn't follow that your beliefs apply to all of us.

You'd be a fool, or a BNP voter, to think that the only people we seek should look like ourselves.

A bon entendeur, salut.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:52:36 AM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


You'd be a fool, or a BNP voter, to think that the only people we seek should look like ourselves.




I don't believe that I defined what anyones concept of pack would actually consist of.

Just the other day I was loading at a farm, a dog came around the corner, followed by a cat, a couple ducks and a goose (all rather chummy). For all intense purposes necessity had made them a pack. The Chihuahua and Schnauzer that reside in my house believe that they are part of my pack (family) and quite frankly I accept them as such.

So no I wasn't defining the term pack for anyone, as a matter of fact it appears they (packs) have different levels, not to mention various shapes and sizes.


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Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 7:54:02 AM   
kittinSol


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And what does your farm life have to do with Nick Griffin again?

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 8:01:02 AM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

And what does your farm life have to do with Nick Griffin again?




I was responding to your commentary on the subject. I do believe the following quote was your comment. You made reference to the fact that people should always be concerned with being part of a group, I say they are naturally compelled to do so.


quote:



LadyE, it's up to individuals to find their own sense of purpose in life without constantly feeling like they need to belong to a national and/or ethnic group or other assorted football teams and WIs.



But you might be correct as to our deviation from the topic....

My appoligies to the Lady Ellen

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Live well,

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"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 8:11:41 AM   
RCdc


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The problem with griffin is that he wants all the farms in the UK to just have white sheep.

the.dark.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 8:14:26 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

The problem with griffin is that he wants all the farms in the UK to just have white sheep.



Aryan ovines  .

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 8:20:56 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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-FR-

I didn't watch the programme knowing it would be a waste of time and I'll still question the decision to even entertain the thought of having him as a guest. You know what he is going to say you know how he is going to try and justify it so what new will come from it? People don't invite other people to convince them the sky is green, we just understand that some people have stupid ideas. Why this need to give stupid people a voice just to show they have a voice? Pointless and dangerous because for every person out there convinced Nick made a fool of himself they’ll be others that think him getting a voice legitimises his views.

The other thing I am wondering is how much time this man and his deputy have spent in Europe representing their constituents since being elected? Having MEP's find the time to appear on question time when they are largely based in Europe doesn’t happen as often as it does for MP’s. I'm sure he is just using that institution to finance his agenda through expenses claims.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/23/2009 8:32:12 AM >


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 9:13:28 AM   
puella


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You know... Question Time is one of the things I miss most about living in England... I wish we could have a show like that here in the states but I greatly suspect neither side would allow themselves to be that vulnerable...Dang I wish I could have seen Griffin!

:)

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 9:15:43 AM   
kittinSol


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Maybe America needs something like the BBC  ?

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 9:29:48 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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In actual fact the UK is getting more like the US; soon there will be these leadership debates after Christmas between the main party leaders (David Cameron, Gordon Brown and whoever is pretending the liberal democrats have a better chance this time [Nick Clegg?]) The SNP are thus complaining that they will not be represented in such proceedings and threaten to ban BBC from showing them in Scotland.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/23/2009 9:31:07 AM >


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 9:40:21 AM   
puella


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Not to hijack the thread, which is excellent, btw and I am so pissed that if you are out of the UK you cannot use the bbc iplayer... anyhow...this is a good article about why Question Time would never work in the us!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/question_time/8271710.stm

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We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 10:35:53 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hilarious, especially considering Griffin's physique - he looks suspiciously Norman to me  .


If so he is Norman but no Wisdom

Straw was his usual ineffective self. Griffin was shown up for what he is, I loved his quote about the "peaceful KKK." I cant see what all the fuss is about the BNP and National Front before them, have always failed to do well in general elections, and will fail again in May.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 11:13:32 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Not to hijack the thread, which is excellent, btw and I am so pissed that if you are out of the UK you cannot use the bbc iplayer... anyhow...this is a good article about why Question Time would never work in the us!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/question_time/8271710.stm

I think it's a measure to stop people who haven't paid a license fee from looking at stuff: the easiest way to do that is by barring IPs from outside of the UK, sadly.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/23/2009 11:15:17 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hilarious, especially considering Griffin's physique - he looks suspiciously Norman to me  .


If so he is Norman but no Wisdom

Straw was his usual ineffective self. Griffin was shown up for what he is, I loved his quote about the "peaceful KKK." I cant see what all the fuss is about the BNP and National Front before them, have always failed to do well in general elections, and will fail again in May.

The hard right tends to do a lot better in elections during periods of recession, though. The only reason Hitler got his foot in the Reichstag door was due to the depression, was it not?

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