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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 5:55:14 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

They could be the party for paedophilia or using babies as cheap meat it's a democracy and peple are voting for them.



Surely you see the absurdity behind your reasoning: a democracy is supported by the rule of law.

What I know of the BNP is that much of it is illegal and bordering on terroristic. And the people that vote for them are doing it mostly as a show of protest, and choosing to be oblivious to the danger. Their ignorance is truly staggering.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:00:28 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Perhaps protest comes with desperation.

If the sane political parties fail to take on board a desperate person's worries about how they see things and how those things are affecting them, what else is there to do ?


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:02:05 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		 But it is neither illegal nor terroristic or it would be denied status as a legitimate party. It doesn't matter what values are being preached as long as people are voting for them. The B.N.P. used to be an offshoot of the national front and it got nowhere. Then it shed it's illegal roots and embraced mainstream politics and methods. It has granted them unprecedented success. Their oponents on the left did not make the same change and so still think that affirmative/direct action is the best way to deal with them when clearly it is not...as evidenced by their success.

Calling those who vote for them ignorant will get you precisely nowhere in a democracy KittenSol and that is the threat to democracy. If all that can be summoned up to combat the B.N.P. is hurling abuse at them then democracy is dead anyway.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:11:41 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

But it is neither illegal nor terroristic or it would be denied status as a legitimate party.



Oh yeah? BNP forced to close membership.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:12:56 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Perhaps protest comes with desperation.

If the sane political parties fail to take on board a desperate person's worries about how they see things and how those things are affecting them, what else is there to do ?



I know that you're not advocating that the only alternative is to hate.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:14:11 AM   
SaintIntensity


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Status: offline 		the BNP actually ENJOY the "outraged vitriol" of the middle-class liberals - every admonishing, pesto-stained finger aimed at them is a bonus

anti-fascist demonstrations - effectively an attempt to deny them "free speech" - works in their favour and makes their opponents look like rabid extremists

the BNP are a symptom, not the disease - but no mainstream party will embrace anything that may lead to a cure, so they are going to be around (and increase in
votes/influence) for some time


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:16:30 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		Exactly KittenSol they were accused of race bias and so ammended their constitution like a legitimate legal party, which is precisely what they are.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:18:39 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Give me a break ROFLMAO! They've only just agree to amend (in ill grace) their illegal constitution because they were forced to.

Tell me: have you voted, or will you vote, for the BNP?

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:28:23 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintIntensity
the BNP are a symptom, not the disease - but no mainstream party will embrace anything that may lead to a cure, so they are going to be around (and increase in
votes/influence) for some time


I completely agree with this, although I hope that we are both wrong about the outcome, and that the BNP bubble will miraculously deflate like a wet fart  .

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:28:25 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		 Precisely they work within the confines of the democratic legal system. An illegal party would have told the judiciary to stick it.

I have never voted for the B.N.P. I have voted since I was elligible for the Conservative party though I once voted for the liberals in a local election because I thought they offered the best council.
I would however consider voting for the B.N.P. if I could be convinced that they would leave behind their rascist policies. I believe the abolition of faith schools is an excellent idea. I am a budding member of the military and this seems to be the only party that has not directly abused this institution and promises to significantly aid them in a number of ways. I would like to see a poins system integrated for immigraion similar to either Canada or Australia the B.N.P. are the only party with some clear policies on what they plan to do about immigration. I believe there should be civil  though not national service and that is an idea the B.N.P.  speaks about.  These issues make it attractive to me. However it's negative side which would include selling huge numbers of my countrymen down the river is unaccpetable so I have nt voted for them nor will I in the forsseable future. Were they to moderate some of their racial stances I would consider them.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:29:32 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
I would however consider voting for the B.N.P.


I knew it.

Thanks for playing (and for being honest, at least).

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:30:45 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		What do you mean? Read the rest of the post.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:33:02 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Oh, I have read it. Every time I encounter someone who has voted, or "considers" voting, for the National Front (which is what the BNP truly is), they make all kinds of mitigating statements in order to try and justify themselves.

No need to dwell on this any further: you are a potential BNP voter, just like I suspected.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:37:20 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		Clearly you have not read it nor even finished the sentence you culled that post from. I clearly state that the only way I would consider voting for them is if they evolved to no longer be rascist as it is these policies tat I disagree with. I then list some of their policies which I believe have merit, I am not ''trying to justify myself''. Clearly I am not a potential B.N.P. voter. It is nonsense like this that will carry on handing them votes you cannot even debate with someone who disagrees with the B.N.P. Perhaps when they are in power you can console yourself with the knowledge that you exercise your democratic duty by refusing to debate and shouting lord knows if that didn't work what would...engaging in the democratic process one might tentatively suggest.


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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:38:40 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
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From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Perhaps protest comes with desperation.

If the sane political parties fail to take on board a desperate person's worries about how they see things and how those things are affecting them, what else is there to do ?



I know that you're not advocating that the only alternative is to hate.


I don't believe all the people that voted for the BNP are haters, they simply voted for a party that seemed to be championing their own concerns about life as it affects them. Especially so, when it seems the main parties are ignoring what is happening to some sectors of society. It occurs the main parties do know exactly what is happening in the UK, but are scared to address the situation for fear of being labelled racist, a sure death knell to any politician's career if it sticks.

Ever noticed how in media, when someone cries racist , any conversation or action stops, no progress is made in anything. It is my understanding that politicians now know what may lead to a cry of racist, whether it is deserved or not, and so avoid any situation that might lead that way.

Ever notice how the word ; racist can mean so many different things when it suits an agenda. It is the word that kills progress fo all, of every colour and ethnicity.

Housing for existing homeless Britons first, that  by the insertion of Britons is seen by many as racist.

Employment for existing population first, that by the insertion of existing can be seen to deny immigrants and therefore can be seen as racist.

This word, we need to get a grip on it, and learn not to fear it, when it is used by those with an agenda, to stiffle needed and healthy change.

So, if established politicians won't deal with the situation as it is, what else is there, but to vote for a racist party and hope the politicians wake up to the realty as it affects some voters.

It is said, the only say a commoner has in the running of this country, is on ballot day, where they may put an X  in a box for who or what they believe is the lesser of all evils, maybe it is the lack of action of others that forced an X for the BNP


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:41:53 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Do you mind if I give you a word of advice? You should be honest with yourself. Embrace the BNP if you want, but own it. You're being intellectually dishonest right now, and it shows.

Because, without their racist policies, what is it about the BNP that would motivate you to vote for them? I think you're just too ashamed to admit the full truth about what motivates you.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:45:43 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		How dare you why would I embrace the B.N.P.? I disagree with them which is why I do not vote for them. I have just listed the policies that they have that I like though clearly you did not read that either. Implying that I am rascist is utterly disgusting. If you don't hae the intellect to understand wht I hav said then ask do not invent revolting viewpoints and insert them into my mouth.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:46:44 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I disagree with you, Aneirin. I think that now more than ever, clear lines need to be drawn between what a society is willing to accept, and what it deems abhorrent. Your "tolerate intolerance" approach does nothing but muddy the waters, but I understand it's a popular stance.

I'm with PoliteSub, and think the BNP will crash in May.

Meanwhile, I must get my overseas voter's registration!

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/26/2009 6:49:21 AM >

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:51:46 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		What a democracy accepts is already crystal clear Kittnesol it is whatever a legitimate political party wishes to place in it's manifesto. The rest is soley up to the voting public. Perhaps the B.N.P. will collapse in May but what if they do not? Would you still advocate ignoring the,? If a democracy is not strong enough to debate such issues succesfully then it has already died as a democracy.

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RE: Nick Griffin - torn to shreds on QT? - 10/26/2009 6:56:29 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What do you want to debate? The nature of democracy, or the content of the BNP's policies?

You just want to defend the BNP without seeming to be defending it, but you're not addressing the real problem, which is that it's a racist party, populated by racist, antisemitic and xenophobic thugs, which is currently seeking to appear like a legitimate political party in the eyes of the downtrodden amongst the British electorate.

I've seen it all before, unfortunately - perhaps you haven't? This is the only way I can explain your naivety.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/26/2009 7:02:03 AM >

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