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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 2:41:24 PM   
Kat713


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I'm not sure if I can answer your question. I myself am immensely physically attracted to Asian men (cute ones of course), and normally do not Black men. But, I haven't dated that many people before, so who can say if that will change in the future? I don't know exactly why. I do find men of all races attractive, but I am just more attracted to Asian men. I think it has something to do with my childhood, being abused by my father and always laughed at within the black community because I was different... So... Maybe I am exhibiting a subtle form of discrimination or racism. But I also think it might be as simple as what I find attractive and what I don't. It's like this: A lot of men might like long hair. Or short hair. Or no hair at all. Some men might think a bald woman looks unattractive. Or they showing discrimination? They just don't find it attractive. So I think it's the same way.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 2:45:38 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


Maybe it is.

It's hard to know anything from our own, personal, anecdotal observations.

For example, although statistically more black men than black women marry outside of their race, I don't personally know any black man with a white wife.

My wife, though, has black female "friends" (using the term loosely) with white husbands.

Anyway, I was theorizing as to the effects of an increase in interracial dating--not describing interracial dating as it exists at this moment.


The only interracial couples I know are black men/white women.
I wonder why that is?

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 2:49:54 PM   
devilishpixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


Maybe it is.

It's hard to know anything from our own, personal, anecdotal observations.

For example, although statistically more black men than black women marry outside of their race, I don't personally know any black man with a white wife.

My wife, though, has black female "friends" (using the term loosely) with white husbands.

Anyway, I was theorizing as to the effects of an increase in interracial dating--not describing interracial dating as it exists at this moment.


The only interracial couples I know are black men/white women.
I wonder why that is?


That is the majority of the interracial couples that I know as well.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 2:54:37 PM   
devilishpixie


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[/quote]

In my (not-so-humble) opinion, whites who say they only date other whites are more likely to be acting out of a prejudice towards non-whites than are minorities who say they only date people of their own race.

Attitudes, ideologies and practices of white supremacy tend to manifest themselves through the exclusion of non-whites (e.g., "Whites Only segregation").

Minorities who only date others of their own race tend to be acting out of a sense of racial solidarity, not out of a sense of prejudice towards those who are not members of their race.

When a Jewish mother admonishes her daughter to "find a nice Jewish boy" to marry, she's not (necessarily) acting out of or demonstrating a prejudice towards non-Jews.

She's (more likely) acting out of a sense of solidarity with other Jews and her Jewish heritage.

If a white mother told her son to be sure to "marry a white girl," she's more likely acting out of a sense of prejudice towards non-whites than acting out of a sense of solidarity with other whites.

Minorities tend to feel a need to act in solidarity with one another, because they're minorities.

Whites tend to not feel that need--because they're the majority.

So, my point is, that people can do the same thing (only date others of their own race), but for very different reasons.

[/quote]

I know many whites who feel that they are no longer the majority, but the mininority. I know that in my specific communicty I (a white woman) am a minority.

I also personally have an issue with the fact that if a white mother has a preference about whom her child dates (regarding race) it is raciallly motivated but in other races it is simply racial solidarity. That is like saying there can be black pride, asian pride, but if whites show pride in the white race they are racists.



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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 3:19:26 PM   
wandersalone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Well, I don't know what it would be like to not know any black people through my work or social groups.

And, I'd still have my family to hook up through.

Next time, smiley face: :-)

Our different experiences may be a product of us living in different countries, I can only speak for Australia and specifically my own life.  I currently work in a company that has just under 200 employees in the office I work in and I am the only person from an Indian background but there are a lot of other nationalities.

and I am still unsure as to how you could have missed that the below was a joke

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

Um just for the record though.....I am an equal opportunity white man dater - I have dated Brits, Irish, an American, a Canadian, a Scott and of course a number of Aussies


edited to add
= humour


< Message edited by wandersalone -- 11/2/2009 3:21:57 PM >


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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/2/2009 3:24:12 PM   
wandersalone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie

I also personally have an issue with the fact that if a white mother has a preference about whom her child dates (regarding race) it is raciallly motivated but in other races it is simply racial solidarity. That is like saying there can be black pride, asian pride, but if whites show pride in the white race they are racists.





This is a part of the discussion that I also find perturbing


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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/3/2009 6:50:51 AM   
LadyEllen


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There was a fascinating documentary on TV last night (part of UK Channel 4's series on "race - science's last taboo" or some such) looking at mixed race children and whether they have advantages over others. It seemed they did - because the genes are so different from mother and father, (having been separated for up to 70,000 years), mixed race children are likely not only to be more attractive (due to the enhanced facial symmetry that mixing brings about through a wider and so better genetic mix) but are also far less likely to inherit those genetic traits found within a race (and which result from inbreeding in the widest possible sense).

Combine this with (sorry guys) the fact that its women who choose their mates (given opportunity) and that they choose them initially on the basis of their genes (literally, at face value - see above) in order to produce the best offspring possible - and this is facilitated well by having those offspring with someone of another race - and its very likely that social environment permitting, not only will there be more mixed matings but also steadily more mixed race offspring.

The question should not be why date someone of another race, but why the hell not (!) given that all other factors being resolved in such a choice the resultant offspring will be so much better off due to their mixed heritage?

As a side effect we might also get past this race thing too, on all sides. Whilst the loss of "purity" (as supposed) might be a shame in some ways, we might actually be able to reach a point where we can say with absolute certainty that someone is worthwhile (or an asshole) based on any factor other than shade. However we must be aware that the Inuit (?) are supposed to have hundreds of words to describe various colours of snow and human ingenuity in defining who's in and who's out will more than likely result in the same sort of vocabulary development; indeed the programme showed how in Brazil (the most mixed race population in the world) exactly this situation has developed, aside from the nasty aspect.

E

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 3:33:46 AM   
HisBestGirl


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To be honest, I've not read this thread in its entirety. However, if someone were to say to me 'he's black' I would assume, through whatever social conditioning, they are referring to an African American, African and to a lesser extent, Aborigine/ TSI, not someone of Indian descent. In Australia, particularly when I was child/teenager, one simply did not encounter Africans or African Americans on a consistent basis. I honestly cannot remember meeting one ONCE until I got to year 12 and one of my friends was dating an African American guy (note how I'm using these terms as I'm unsure if I'm going to offend anyone). I do believe that Australians are largely unaware of the social mores that one simply experiences growing up in the USA, for example. One of my ex's is African American and I always found it fascinating listening to him relate his experiences which are so wholly removed from my own, not only as a woman but also as an Australian who has limited experience or understanding in regard to the history and current position of African Americans (not taught in our schools) other than what is general knowledge and what I have read so far.

Having said all that, I do hope it makes sense and does not offend anyone.

In regards to your comment Blaakmaan (and all this is said with no indignation or anger): I highly doubt it's a conscious decision on my part to date only white men but as a possible theory; I ultimately identify with white culture, even though white culture does not accept me as readily. I saw my mother's family maybe once every 4 years, she has been in Australia for 30+ years, has forgotten most of her mother tongue and as I said, I grew up in an area that has been referred to as 'the last bastion of the white man'. I was the only non-white kid in my entire school and as I'm sure one can imagine, that gave others a lot of fodder for ostracising me. And yet, save for my early and continued experiences with racism and prejudice, I had virtually no connection with Asian culture. I believe that if I had been more exposed socially to Asians and Asian culture, I would feel more of an affinity with Asians. However, I currently work for a company that solely employs Asians and the fact that I am half white is cause for constant comment. I go to Malaysia to visit family and I am called 'mat salleh' to my face and behind my back which is often used as a derogatory comment in relation to white people.  Honestly, I don't say all this in order to induce someone to throw me a pity party or to justify that I 'feel' white, therefore I 'date white'. Rather, to further clarify my experiences and a possible theory as to why I 'end up' with white guys through no particular conscious decision on my part. I am 23 and have had serious relationships with 6 people. Of those 6, 1 was Middle Eastern, 1 was Italian, 3 were white and 1 was African American. Hence why I believe I 'end up' with white men.

My best friend is half Greek, on her father's side. She identifies herself as Greek, no halfs about it. She dates Greek men and she will marry a Greek man. I'm not going to get all Freudian but I believe there is something to ponder in that both of us have gravitated towards dating men who are the same race/ culture as our respective fathers.

My partner is white and with the exception of me, has only dated white women. This I believe is due to the fact that he comes from a country town where the only non-white people were the Indian family running the one Indian restaurant. There simply was no choice in regard to dating anyone who wasn't white. That was the selection. And yet I know he finds Middle Eastern, Latina and Black women in particular very attractive so it's not a question of attraction to one particular race.

So Blaakmaan, I suppose I am envious of your clear connection to both your culture and your race and that you would actively wonder why you were gravitating solely towards those outside of your race if such an occurance were to happen.

Ultimately, I do believe that it is the individual not the race that determines whether or not I find them attractive and worth pursuing a relationship with.

I do hope all my quotation marks and comments did not come across as snarky and just in case, I'll throw this in --->




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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 3:40:01 AM   
breatheasone


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i am not physically attracted to black men. Does this mean i'm prejudice? i think not.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 3:47:41 AM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie

This topic was brought up within the "Why not black instead of African American" thread and rather than hijack that thread with this topic I thought I should start a thread to discuss it.

Although more and more people in today’s society indicate an openness to dating outside of their race, many still consciously or subconsciously prefer either to date only individuals from their racial background or individuals from specific racial backgrounds while excluding all others. For example, I myself have only dated black men for the past two years. Most people including myself who admit to such limitations on who they will date defend this practice as simply a preference rather than yet another, subtle form of racism. The reasoning ranges from innate or genetic attractions to people of a specific race or who share their own background and wanting someone with similar cultural values or experiences, to feeling as though one relates more to a particular race and the desire to have children who resemble themselves.

While many reasons offered for dating limitations present legitimate concerns, does having such concerns adequately answer the question of whether or not excluding particular races for any reason in any context amount to racism?

And are race-based dating limitations truly just preferences, or are they a smaller reflection of society's racist views in general?

Is dating strictly within your race the same as strictly dating outside your race or within another race? Why or why not?




Why does the question even matter?

I have a friend who is devoted to AA.

If anyone around him has more than 2 drinks, he'll start dropping little hints about the benefits of AA and that "denial ain't just a river in Egypt".

I find more white people upset that any other given race has a preference for their own race, than any single other group.

So what?

Some people like beef and dislike seafood.  Are they "fishists"?  "Beefists"?

So what.

Someone likes to date black people.  Great stuff.

Someone doesn't like to date black people.  Fine by me.

Find someone you like and enjoy life.

If someone else doesn't like it....that's okay too.

(They don't have to....it's really not required for your happiness).



< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 11/4/2009 3:48:48 AM >

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 3:56:53 AM   
HisBestGirl


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I'm stealing 'Beefist '

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 9:51:03 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat713

I'm not sure if I can answer your question. I myself am immensely physically attracted to Asian men (cute ones of course), and normally do not Black men. But, I haven't dated that many people before, so who can say if that will change in the future? I don't know exactly why. I do find men of all races attractive, but I am just more attracted to Asian men. I think it has something to do with my childhood, being abused by my father and always laughed at within the black community because I was different... So... Maybe I am exhibiting a subtle form of discrimination or racism. But I also think it might be as simple as what I find attractive and what I don't. It's like this: A lot of men might like long hair. Or short hair. Or no hair at all. Some men might think a bald woman looks unattractive. Or they showing discrimination? They just don't find it attractive. So I think it's the same way.


Jesus!

Puhleeze...!

RACE is NOT like height, or hair color (unless it's hair color that STRONGLY correlates with race--like blonde), or long or short hair, or slim vs. thick, any of that crap.

RACE is RACE.

Can we puhleeze stop with the bullshit?

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:11:12 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


Maybe it is.

It's hard to know anything from our own, personal, anecdotal observations.

For example, although statistically more black men than black women marry outside of their race, I don't personally know any black man with a white wife.

My wife, though, has black female "friends" (using the term loosely) with white husbands.

Anyway, I was theorizing as to the effects of an increase in interracial dating--not describing interracial dating as it exists at this moment.


The only interracial couples I know are black men/white women.
I wonder why that is?


That is the majority of the interracial couples that I know as well.


If it is true that more interracial, black/white couples are black male/white female than white male/black female (and it seems to be true with respect to interracial marriage, which doesn't mean it's true for interracial dating), the reason may simply be that black women are less open, on the whole, to dating white men than black men are to dating white women.

Or, possibly, white men are less likely to pursue black women than black men are to pursue white women.

Or, hell, perhaps it's because there are, like, something like 10 times as many white women in this country as black women.

Actually, interracial marriage is still quite uncommon in the United States.

Certainly, even now, less than 10% of marriages in the U.S. are interracial.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:20:50 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fnordstrum


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fnordstrum

I would say that if you don't date a specific race, if it's simply because you just don't find people of that race attractive, then it's not racism. (Some people are just really picky when it comes to what they find attractive, etc)

However any other reason, I would say falls under racism... Or at least I can't think of anything that wouldn't be.

Fnord.

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤



That begs the question, which is why one would consistently find or feel or believe that one particular race--or every race but one's own--is not attractive, but another race is.

That could, and often is, what's rooted in either feelings of racism or racial superiority.

What about persons who only date outside of their own race?

They don't find their own race attractive?

They're so picky about whom they date that none of their own race qualify?

What would you call that???

Finally, if I am considering whom to date, am I really asking myself if I consider that race attractive, or whether I consider that person attractive?

I would hope I would be asking myself whether I find that particular person attractive, not their entire race.



Again, it could be because they have various prejudices against either their own or other races, or, they could just not be attracted to them... If someone's favorite color is green, there isn't necessarily some kind of reason for liking that more than some other color... I would say not dating people of a certain race simply because you don't find them attractive isn't "They're [whever race], so they look ugly," but, "I just don't find this person attractive" (Which happens to happen with everyone they encounter of that race)


For me, personally, I find ultra-pale skin more attractive than any other skin color, however, that's not something that would prevent me from dating anyone.

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤


And, preytell, how would that consistently "happen to happen" ("with everyone they encounter of that race"), if one was not conditioned, by prejudice or whatever, to find people of that race unattractive?

That's a lot of "just happens to happen," don't you think?

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:30:54 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie





In my (not-so-humble) opinion, whites who say they only date other whites are more likely to be acting out of a prejudice towards non-whites than are minorities who say they only date people of their own race.

Attitudes, ideologies and practices of white supremacy tend to manifest themselves through the exclusion of non-whites (e.g., "Whites Only segregation").

Minorities who only date others of their own race tend to be acting out of a sense of racial solidarity, not out of a sense of prejudice towards those who are not members of their race.

When a Jewish mother admonishes her daughter to "find a nice Jewish boy" to marry, she's not (necessarily) acting out of or demonstrating a prejudice towards non-Jews.

She's (more likely) acting out of a sense of solidarity with other Jews and her Jewish heritage.

If a white mother told her son to be sure to "marry a white girl," she's more likely acting out of a sense of prejudice towards non-whites than acting out of a sense of solidarity with other whites.

Minorities tend to feel a need to act in solidarity with one another, because they're minorities.

Whites tend to not feel that need--because they're the majority.

So, my point is, that people can do the same thing (only date others of their own race), but for very different reasons.



I know many whites who feel that they are no longer the majority, but the mininority. I know that in my specific communicty I (a white woman) am a minority.

I also personally have an issue with the fact that if a white mother has a preference about whom her child dates (regarding race) it is raciallly motivated but in other races it is simply racial solidarity. That is like saying there can be black pride, asian pride, but if whites show pride in the white race they are racists.





You are free to have that issue.

Believe it or not, it's different being a Black or Asian or Hispanic in the minority, than being a white person in the majority.

And, being a minority in your "specific community" is not the same thing as being a minority in your country.

Trust me...

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:33:11 AM   
Blaakmaan


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OK.

Humor...

I get it...

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:35:49 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie

I also personally have an issue with the fact that if a white mother has a preference about whom her child dates (regarding race) it is raciallly motivated but in other races it is simply racial solidarity. That is like saying there can be black pride, asian pride, but if whites show pride in the white race they are racists.





This is a part of the discussion that I also find perturbing



Perturbing?

How so?

Whites show their racial pride and solidarity every day of the week.

The just don't have to call it "White History Month."

Every month is White History Month.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:48:41 AM   
devilishpixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilishpixie

I also personally have an issue with the fact that if a white mother has a preference about whom her child dates (regarding race) it is raciallly motivated but in other races it is simply racial solidarity. That is like saying there can be black pride, asian pride, but if whites show pride in the white race they are racists.





This is a part of the discussion that I also find perturbing



Perturbing?

How so?

Whites show their racial pride and solidarity every day of the week.

The just don't have to call it "White History Month."

Every month is White History Month.


I think that can be said for any race, if one truly wants to show racial pride and solidarity they dont need a state sanctioned holiday to do that.

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 10:49:42 AM   
Blaakmaan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

There was a fascinating documentary on TV last night (part of UK Channel 4's series on "race - science's last taboo" or some such) looking at mixed race children and whether they have advantages over others. It seemed they did - because the genes are so different from mother and father, (having been separated for up to 70,000 years), mixed race children are likely not only to be more attractive (due to the enhanced facial symmetry that mixing brings about through a wider and so better genetic mix) but are also far less likely to inherit those genetic traits found within a race (and which result from inbreeding in the widest possible sense).

Combine this with (sorry guys) the fact that its women who choose their mates (given opportunity) and that they choose them initially on the basis of their genes (literally, at face value - see above) in order to produce the best offspring possible - and this is facilitated well by having those offspring with someone of another race - and its very likely that social environment permitting, not only will there be more mixed matings but also steadily more mixed race offspring.

The question should not be why date someone of another race, but why the hell not (!) given that all other factors being resolved in such a choice the resultant offspring will be so much better off due to their mixed heritage?

As a side effect we might also get past this race thing too, on all sides. Whilst the loss of "purity" (as supposed) might be a shame in some ways, we might actually be able to reach a point where we can say with absolute certainty that someone is worthwhile (or an asshole) based on any factor other than shade. However we must be aware that the Inuit (?) are supposed to have hundreds of words to describe various colours of snow and human ingenuity in defining who's in and who's out will more than likely result in the same sort of vocabulary development; indeed the programme showed how in Brazil (the most mixed race population in the world) exactly this situation has developed, aside from the nasty aspect.

E


Well, my goodness!

I hope that documentary wasn't on the BBC.

First, the racial "genes" of the various races have not been "separated for up to 70,000 years."

How have they been?

There has been racial "mixing" as long as there have been different races.

And where did the "70,000 years" come from? Out of a hat???

Mixed race children are "likely... to be more attractive..."?

Says who?

More attractive than what?

How is attractiveness to be scientifically measured and determined?

Were the children put in front of an "attractiveness machine" and scientifically examined?

There is no "more attractive" outside of human perception of attractiveness.

But, to butress your point--have you noticed how all of those "mixed race" women keep being crowned Miss Americas? They just dominate the pageant, don't they??? Think a white woman will ever win again???

Women choose their mates on genes? Just how would we know that?

Were the women given a survey? Did they choose genes over, let's say, money, power and good-looks???

And, finally, if Brazil is one of the most racially diverse nations in the world (I'll take your word for that), it's also one of the most racially stratified nations in the world.

White is on top, even (or should I say especially) in good ol' Brazil.

So much for "getting past this race thing."

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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 11:06:11 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan
Were the children put in front of an "attractiveness machine" and scientifically examined?


I think normally they do this thing called a survey where they select a cross section of a community and ask them to rate attractiveness of a particular face. Failing that they put people in front of mirrors and decide based on if the mirror cracks or not.


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Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
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