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RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 11:42:22 AM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisBestGirl

To be honest, I've not read this thread in its entirety. However, if someone were to say to me 'he's black' I would assume, through whatever social conditioning, they are referring to an African American, African and to a lesser extent, Aborigine/ TSI, not someone of Indian descent. In Australia, particularly when I was child/teenager, one simply did not encounter Africans or African Americans on a consistent basis. I honestly cannot remember meeting one ONCE until I got to year 12 and one of my friends was dating an African American guy (note how I'm using these terms as I'm unsure if I'm going to offend anyone). I do believe that Australians are largely unaware of the social mores that one simply experiences growing up in the USA, for example. One of my ex's is African American and I always found it fascinating listening to him relate his experiences which are so wholly removed from my own, not only as a woman but also as an Australian who has limited experience or understanding in regard to the history and current position of African Americans (not taught in our schools) other than what is general knowledge and what I have read so far.

Having said all that, I do hope it makes sense and does not offend anyone.

In regards to your comment Blaakmaan (and all this is said with no indignation or anger): I highly doubt it's a conscious decision on my part to date only white men but as a possible theory; I ultimately identify with white culture, even though white culture does not accept me as readily. I saw my mother's family maybe once every 4 years, she has been in Australia for 30+ years, has forgotten most of her mother tongue and as I said, I grew up in an area that has been referred to as 'the last bastion of the white man'. I was the only non-white kid in my entire school and as I'm sure one can imagine, that gave others a lot of fodder for ostracising me. And yet, save for my early and continued experiences with racism and prejudice, I had virtually no connection with Asian culture. I believe that if I had been more exposed socially to Asians and Asian culture, I would feel more of an affinity with Asians. However, I currently work for a company that solely employs Asians and the fact that I am half white is cause for constant comment. I go to Malaysia to visit family and I am called 'mat salleh' to my face and behind my back which is often used as a derogatory comment in relation to white people.  Honestly, I don't say all this in order to induce someone to throw me a pity party or to justify that I 'feel' white, therefore I 'date white'. Rather, to further clarify my experiences and a possible theory as to why I 'end up' with white guys through no particular conscious decision on my part. I am 23 and have had serious relationships with 6 people. Of those 6, 1 was Middle Eastern, 1 was Italian, 3 were white and 1 was African American. Hence why I believe I 'end up' with white men.

My best friend is half Greek, on her father's side. She identifies herself as Greek, no halfs about it. She dates Greek men and she will marry a Greek man. I'm not going to get all Freudian but I believe there is something to ponder in that both of us have gravitated towards dating men who are the same race/ culture as our respective fathers.

My partner is white and with the exception of me, has only dated white women. This I believe is due to the fact that he comes from a country town where the only non-white people were the Indian family running the one Indian restaurant. There simply was no choice in regard to dating anyone who wasn't white. That was the selection. And yet I know he finds Middle Eastern, Latina and Black women in particular very attractive so it's not a question of attraction to one particular race.

So Blaakmaan, I suppose I am envious of your clear connection to both your culture and your race and that you would actively wonder why you were gravitating solely towards those outside of your race if such an occurance were to happen.

Ultimately, I do believe that it is the individual not the race that determines whether or not I find them attractive and worth pursuing a relationship with.

I do hope all my quotation marks and comments did not come across as snarky and just in case, I'll throw this in --->





Not snarky at all.

I appreciate, and to some extent--empathise--with all that you've said.

You said: "I highly doubt it's a conscious decision on my part to date only white men...".

However, my point is not that prejudice or bias has to necessarily be conscious. In fact, some of the most powerful manifestations of a person's biases or prejudices are unconscious, not conscious.

So, the fact that you may not have consciously chosen to "date only white men" doesn't mean that you haven't, in fact, chosen to do that.

It may just be that you've unconsciously chosen to do that. Which may (or may not--I couldn't know) have something to do with the fact that your own father is white.

You speak of, on the one hand, Greeks and Italians (and "Middle Easterners") and, on the other hand, Blacks and Asians and whites.

That's mixing apples and oranges.

"Greek" and "Italian" are national identities. They're not racial identities.

Black, white and Asian are racial identities.

You are using racial and national identities interchangeably, but they are not the same thing.

My point, HisBestGirl, is not that you (or others) are bad for dating people of a single race, to the exclusion of others.

My only point is that that is not simply "a preference."


(in reply to HisBestGirl)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 11:48:46 AM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
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Far as I know, Black History Month (and Hispanic History Month, etc.) is not a state-sanctioned holiday.

If it is, I am sure enough owed some days off!

(in reply to devilishpixie)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 11:52:40 AM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan
Were the children put in front of an "attractiveness machine" and scientifically examined?


I think normally they do this thing called a survey where they select a cross section of a community and ask them to rate attractiveness of a particular face. Failing that they put people in front of mirrors and decide based on if the mirror cracks or not.



Hmmmmm...

Well, the survey method would be utterly unscientific, and would only establish who people perceived to be attractive. That's no scientific measure of attractiveness, such that it would eliminate racial and cultural biases and give some objective measure of attractiveness.

The cracked mirror test, on the other hand, may just work...

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 12:06:19 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
Nope statistical norms are the basis for a lot of agreed scientific facts so you can either accept what you personally find attractive is outside the statistical norm or you say instead that statistical norms can't be used in any other areas to say for example what an average height of a man is or perhaps what the average strength of concrete is due to cube testing.

Obviously what I find attractive is a specific thing to me but when I am asked along with other people from various other backgrounds to eliminate exceptions/errors etc. then it forms a stronger opinion as to what a particular society as a whole may find attractive.

Yes then that would most likely be based on social influences such as what famous/perceived successful people look like in a society; this then often creates this feedback loop where looking like some other successful/famous person may offer advantages that others don't have. We all see this in the media they all look the same, have the same body type, get the same noses, iron out them wrinkles.

I'm probably wrong but don't tell me because then I'll stop writing stuff; adding to this mountain of irrelevance.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/4/2009 12:31:27 PM >


_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 1:54:19 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan
Well, my goodness!

I hope that documentary wasn't on the BBC.

First, the racial "genes" of the various races have not been "separated for up to 70,000 years."

How have they been?

There has been racial "mixing" as long as there have been different races.

And where did the "70,000 years" come from? Out of a hat???

Mixed race children are "likely... to be more attractive..."?

Says who?

More attractive than what?

How is attractiveness to be scientifically measured and determined?

Were the children put in front of an "attractiveness machine" and scientifically examined?

There is no "more attractive" outside of human perception of attractiveness.



Indeed, Brazil is highly stratified socially according to (apparently) skin tones. This is hardly any wonder given that European settlers and colonisers took over the territory and so acquired positions of wealth and power which akin with all human groups, they are loathe to give up or extend to other groups.

However, given that an eminent geneticist issued the statement of separation for 70,000 years, and this would correlate approximately with the splitting of the human species into its various groups as it emerged from Africa and divided off, I'm not going to query his word, but you might.

Notwithstanding various comparatively minor interactions since then, there has not been widespread mixing of the genes separated back then until our times. (Believe it or not folks, the Americas and even more so North America, are not the world).

The geneticists can apparently tell when humans moved out of Africa because of our genes and the markers they carry. There is a fascinating diagram they draw that shows where genetic markers and so genetic groups (ie "races") originated from in time out of the African group. This diagram shows how Africa is the most genetically diverse continent and how parts of that diversity found their ways into various parts of the world where, upon the inbreeding for many generations of those parts, various types - races if you will, emerged distinct from the rest and its ancestry.

By calculating how such mechanisms might function over generations, it becomes possible to estimate when humans first left Africa to spread over the world (70,000 years ago being one such estimate, but 100,000 years ago also being possible to derive). Not only that, but it also becomes possible to estimate such instances as when the native American Indians got to America and the emergence of Europeans with dates that correlate nicely with archaeological records.

As for how attractiveness is measured, this has been known for some centuries and is all down to proportions and symettry - things which can be measured easily with modern equipment but were known in Renaissance times and likely originated in the ancient world. Wider genetic mixes in children result in increased symettry because the combination of genes is healthier - it has fewer defective gene copies that arise from inbreeding (and which also cause genetic diseases).

Women choose mates initially - remember that word initially - on looks, just like anyone else - so a more symettrical and so attractive man will more likely get more attention from women. Women naturally have no idea that what they find attractive may be evidence of good genes, at least conciously. But thereafter an asshole is still an asshole and a good guy still a good guy, whatever he looks like.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The impact of racial preferences in dating... - 11/4/2009 3:53:42 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
I find all of this anathema.

I've never owned a slave.

My father never owned a slave.

My grandfather never owned a slave.

His father....also....never owned a slave.

(It's over).

(Long ago).

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 146
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