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How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 1:29:56 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline 		First of all let me say, I know this is all my fault. I feel bad enough already, I don't need a bunch of criticism. What I need is helpful information. I am new here so I apologize if I have posted this in the wrong group.

Ten years ago there were no cool web sites like FetLife or CollarMe. The only resource on the net for lifestylers was something called alt news groups. I searched for over a year and finely found a woman who said she was a switch and was willing to Dom me.

We communicated through the news group for a few weeks and then through email and phone calls for another two months before I relocated from Las Vegas to Denver. It was understood by both of us that I was to be the sub and she was to be the Dom.

I had been alone for five years so I asked her to marry me right away. The first year was great. We wrote up a contract and followed it. The second year I turned over all my finances to her. I did everything I was told. In fact she sometimes complained I never did anything to be punished for.

Then in the third year it happened, she asked me to Dom her. (Just this one time) she said. Caring for her deeply I said yes. Looking back I see this was my second mistake, the first was turning over my finances to her. Both of these things seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

Over the next few years she asked me to Dom her more and more. By the seventh year I was Domming her more than she was Domming me. I started feeling very unfulfilled so I started talking to her about my feelings. I told her exactly how I felt, completely truthful. "I don't want to be a Dom, only a sub" I told her.

Although I am a masochist I am also submissive which means I am easily influenced by what other people want.  She told me she would be my domme.  My wife now wants me to dom her, even though she knows I am a total submissive.  She is asking for something I do not have to give.

I have sat her down over and over again and talked this out with her and she goes back to domming me, for a while, then, slowly, everything goes back to me domming her again. I want to live out the rest of my life as a submissive, NOT A DOM... But she just will not listen.

If this were not bad enough I just found out that all of are money is gone and we are twenty seven thousand dollars in debt. She has filed for debt consolidation and the only reason I found out is because I had to sign the papers also.

Now in our ninth year I finely said it "I am so very unhappy with me Domming you, No More." and she said, "If your so unhappy why don't you just leave?". Therefore I feel I have no choice but to leave even though I have no place to go.  It's going to be the hardest thing I have ever had to do.

I worst part is I feel guilty for being the one to leave. I still care about her and I do not want to hurt her but I do not see any other way out of this mess. I am so sorry for letting things get so far.

< Message edited by howahkan -- 10/30/2009 1:33:29 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:00:06 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		You knowingly married a switch. As far back as six years ago you knew she had a submissive side that needed to be fulfilled, because she asked you to do it.

It's not my desire to unnecessarily harsh with you, but when someone tells me they are a switch, I tend to believe it and understand that means both of those sides are going to need some fulfillment. Why wasn't this discussed early on?

You already know you went into the marriage prematurely. I can't tell from your post how happy you are, aside from this issue. If you could find a resolution, would you want to stay? If you would, then find one. Maybe she can find someone to dom her since you don't want to.

Love doesn't have to be either/or...try to be willing to open yourself up to other options.


_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




(in reply to howahkan)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:07:22 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I agree with what Dainty said.  From the description that you are giving, it sounds that your wife enjoys both the Dominant role and enjoys the submissive role.  Since you are happy in the submissive role and not the Dominant one, why not find a third person who can do those things that you don't like to do? 

From your post, it sounds to Me that you love your wife very much.  In fact, I'm thinking that's why you were willing to top your wife in the first place.  Do you think you could see your way to loving her enough that her wants are fulfilled, just as you'd like yours to be?  If a top could be found for her, she could have that want filled with that person, and be the Domme at home that would keep you happy?  It might be a winning solution all around.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:07:24 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		It seems that you two do not fit well each other's needs as  D/s couple.

If you otherwise fit well as a couple, you two could consider fulfilling your D/s needs outside the relationship, perhaps even as a sub couple who submits together. This scenario might not appeal to you and you might be wired for submitting to your primary partner. Another question to ask is why does she not want to dominate--is it simply that she does not enjoy dominance anymore, or is it that the way dominance occurs in your relationship is uninteresting to her.

Even if she did identify as a switch at one time, it's possible that she now feels as unmotivated to dominate as you do, in which case the scenario simply has to be accepted. If one committed to a role at one time and later feels differently, pointing to that commitment will not change how they feel inside and asking them to fulfill that commitment will create strain for each of you.

However, prior to pondering that option, I think you should ponder whether the relationship has merit as simply a couple. One could understand that she did not know that she would not enjoy the dominant role and would come to prefer the submissive role. However, it seems she might be too focused on her needs and does not give enough attention to yours. And the surprise financial setback, and for her to ask you to leave when you say that you do not wish to dominate are not good indicators for a good relationship partner. I think it is a fair to ask whether she is a good relationship partner for you, and how well remains the trust.

As for where to go if you must part ways, there is a whole world out there, in Denver and beyond, with each day a new day. Sure, it would not be easy, each for ending a long relationship, and for starting over, but each of us has the capacity to do it.

I wish you two well in sorting out things.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/30/2009 2:24:01 PM >

(in reply to howahkan)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:10:44 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Howahkan and welcome to the boards.

I read through your entire post twice but it left me a little confused. You say that you handed your finances over to her ? was this money that you had before meeting her or an accumulation of money earned by you both over the years?

From what I am reading both of you have changed direction. You say that you started off as a switch and she took the dominant role and later on she showed her submissive side and asked you to show your dominant side. It sounds as though she enjoyed your dominance more than she enjoyed dominating you and it sounds like you don't want to be a switch anymore but want to be her submissive.

One of the things I was picking up from your post was blame. It sounds like you are blaming her for her need as though its a selfish act and yet you are asking for the same as her. Do you really believe that if you had refused to dominate her that everything would of remained good? she has needs too and what started as her dominating you was almost bound to change direction if she is indeed a switch.

Owing money is frightening. Its stressful and puts great strain on the best of relationships because it has that nasty habit of causing discontentment.
Twenty seven thousand is not a lot of debt but its still enough to cause a heap of unrest within your four walls but if its the money that breaks you then that's incredibly sad.
You need to look within your marriage. Look beyond the debt at what you have in your partner and how you feel about her. Can you live without domination? is there a compromise your both willing to make? Only you know the answer and only that answer can move you forward together or not.


_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:15:33 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples
when someone tells me they are a switch, I tend to believe it and understand that means both of those sides are going to need some fulfillment. Why wasn't this discussed early on?


The applicability of this statement varies from person to person. Some people need to experience both roles on an ongoing basis, some can be happy in whichever role they find in a good relationship. Sure, discussion of this point would have been a good idea but I don't agree that one can say he should have expected this possibility simply because she is a switch. In fact, it is this perception that many switches and bisexual people often try to counter to dispel the myth that switches or bisexual people cannot enter a monogamous relationship.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:16:38 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline 		To daintydimples - Thank you for your post.  I take the blame for everything.  It's all my fault.  I do feel that I have done everything I can do to fix the relationship.  I have given up all hope.  All she had to do was tell me about the finances before things got so bad.  I know I could have helped.  I have been her domestic servant throughout our relationship.  I could have found some kind of job to help out but she hid the problem from me until it was to late.  I will never be able to trust her again.  I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but people in a relationship should never keep things a secret from each other.

(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:29:57 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Hi Howahkan and welcome to the boards.

I read through your entire post twice but it left me a little confused. You say that you handed your finances over to her ? was this money that you had before meeting her or an accumulation of money earned by you both over the years?


Everything I had. $25,000 and a new car which we have since sold.  All gone.

quote:

From what I am reading both of you have changed direction. You say that you started off as a switch


She is the switch. I have always been the submissive.  It's the loss for the money without telling me that I can't seem to get past.  All she had to do was tell me...

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 2:38:41 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

We communicated through the news group for a few weeks and then through email and phone calls for another two months before I relocated from Las Vegas to Denver. It was understood by both of us that I was to be the sub and she was to be the Dom.
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples
when someone tells me they are a switch, I tend to believe it and understand that means both of those sides are going to need some fulfillment. Why wasn't this discussed early on?


The applicability of this statement varies from person to person. Some people need to experience both roles on an ongoing basis, some can be happy in whichever role they find in a good relationship. Sure, discussion of this point would have been a good idea but I don't agree that one can say he should have expected this possibility simply because she is a switch. In fact, it is this perception that many switches and bisexual people often try to counter to dispel the myth that switches or bisexual people cannot enter a monogamous relationship.

Cheers,

Sea



As I said in my original post
quote:

We communicated through the news group for a few weeks and then through email and phone calls for another two months before I relocated from Las Vegas to Denver. It was understood by both of us that I was to be the sub and she was to be the Dom.


We discussed the issue in detail that I would always be the sub.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:03:55 PM   
honeygirl


Posts: 111
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline 		That sucks, Howahkan. Hope you don't mind if I ask some prying questions. You have mentioned several amounts in your postings. Will you please clarify if you are stating that you gave her $25K nine years ago? Had you continued to work outside of the home as well, since you first handed your money over to her? Did she let you know how the debt came about?

Equally important, do you love her (or, at least, did you love her before you found out you about the debt)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

She is the switch. I have always been the submissive.  It's the loss for the money without telling me that I can't seem to get past.  All she had to do was tell me...



(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:06:02 PM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

I searched for over a year and finely found a woman who said she was a switch and was willing to Dom me.



OP,

This line is what stands out for me.  I remembered your introduction post about 3 weeks ago and decided to go back and re-read.  http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2848829   In that post, you say....
quote:


Domestic situation. Currently very unhappily married to a female submissive. When we got married she told me she would be my domme. I have to top from the bottom and in nine years of wasted time she has never been able to dominate me. I have given her ever chance to take position but she has failed to do so every time.

I bring this up because I believe that when reading these two statements its seems to me you may have no clue as to what your wife's wants/needs were/are and how they would play into your relationship dynamic. 

I sense, between these two posts, lots of bitterness and disappointment.  While I can, to a point, understand those feelings, I would wonder if you, and your wife, took into account the meaning of what it is to be a switch. Was this discussed before a commitment was made?  Did your wife understand the depth of your expectations of what being a domme for you is?  Did you at any time discuss the possibility of her needing to have her needs of submission being fulfilled elsewhere? 

I'm not really sure what your expectations are in starting this thread.  While people can offer advice on how things could have been handled...that doesn't really do much good with the present situation.  Maybe this is just an example of learning from experience.  Something you may want to take with you into your next relationship, however, is the understanding that some people are fluid and relationships, regardless of how they start and no matter how many contracts you sign and demands you make, will flow and change over time.  Communication is a two-way street and regardless of your status...sub or slave...you need to keep your feet firmly planted in reality.  This statement comes not only in reply to your current post but also in what you made mention of in your introductory thread.

Good luck with the choices you make...change isn't always easy but sometimes its the only way to learn.
 

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:23:44 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you honeygirl for your post
quote:

That sucks, Howahkan. Hope you don't mind if I ask some prying questions. You have mentioned several amounts in your postings. Will you please clarify if you are stating that you gave her $25K nine years ago? Had you continued to work outside of the home as well, since you first handed your money over to her? Did she let you know how the debt came about?

Equally important, do you love her (or, at least, did you love her before you found out you about the debt)?

Yes I gave her $25000 in our second year of marriage.  I was her domestic servant throughout (still) our entire marriage. The debt came about through the purchase of things like DVD's books and other little things. Nothing of consequence, junk.

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:33:26 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline 		CarrieO - Thank you for your post.  To attempt to answer your last question/statement "I'm not really sure what your expectations are in starting this thread." To tell you the truth I'm not sure.  This whole thing is my fault.  I should have never let hings go so far.  I guess I want some magic way out of it but I know there is no good way out. A few days ago, for the first time in my life, I was actually thinking of suicide. I very quickly came to my senses but that can't be a good sign. I will not be staying.  The first chance I have to rent a cheap room or get into a knowingly temporary relationship with someone who wants to help me out I will be out the door.

(in reply to howahkan)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:46:15 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		She has spent 25 thousand dollars in 7 years and none of that money has been put towards anything but junk? who bought the food and paid the bills? who bought the medical insurance, paid the rent/mortgage, provided the clothes and the running costs of a car?
I don't know about living costs in the US but in the UK the yearly running costs in an average 2 person household would be around 40 thousand dollars. Take that over 7 years and that accumulates to a very large sum.
I would say that you donated 25 thousand towards the upkeep of your living. Surely you didn't expect she was going to put it in a savings account for you?

I agree absolutely that she should of told you she was in trouble and that she was struggling to pay the bills but if I had been in her position I very probably would be in the same shit that your in now.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 3:54:27 PM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline 		She makes 40k a year, I average around 12k a year designing web sites.  When you times that out over nine years that's $468,000 plus my $25k plus the 27k were in debt which means we have spent over a half a million dollars while living in a modest one bedroom apartment in Denver. I could have gone out and got a real job making much more but she wanted me to stay at home. So yes I am a little resentful and kind'da pissed off... Sorry...
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

She has spent 25 thousand dollars in 7 years and none of that money has been put towards anything but junk? who bought the food and paid the bills? who bought the medical insurance, paid the rent/mortgage, provided the clothes and the running costs of a car?
I don't know about living costs in the US but in the UK the yearly running costs in an average 2 person household would be around 40 thousand dollars. Take that over 7 years and that accumulates to a very large sum.
I would say that you donated 25 thousand towards the upkeep of your living. Surely you didn't expect she was going to put it in a savings account for you?

I agree absolutely that she should of told you she was in trouble and that she was struggling to pay the bills but if I had been in her position I very probably would be in the same shit that your in now.


< Message edited by howahkan -- 10/30/2009 3:59:20 PM >

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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 4:12:59 PM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

She makes 40k a year, I average around 12k a year designing web sites.  When you times that out over nine years that's $468,000 plus my $25k plus the 27k were in debt which means we have spent over a half a million dollars while living in a modest one bedroom apartment in Denver.


And yet in your introduction you state...
quote:


Information about me: Currently not working as a web designer. I am very good at it, but with the economy the way it is there is simply not enough work available.


Have you always worked or has it been off and on?  I don't know what the cost of living is like in Denver but where I live, Connecticut, 40K would be enough for me to live on if I didn't have to worry about health insurance and auto upkeep.  Are you saying you were completely unaware of the spending habits over a 9 year period?  No discussion was had on savings and budgets?  When you turned over this money, was it with the understanding that she would do as she saw fit with it? 

Like I said in my previous post... Communication is a two-way street and regardless of your status...sub or slave...you need to keep your feet firmly planted in reality. Money and spending habits, while not sexy, are a reality and should be discussed and agreed upon.  If you agreed to turn this money over without worrying what she would do with it or assuming she would keep it aside for you without discussing it first, why is it an issue now? 

I hope you can let go of the bitterness you carry and learn from this experience.

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 4:34:16 PM   
CougarStud


Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		I'm sorry you are going through this and I know you feel horribly betrayed by her and the trust she broke over the money you gave her control over.  The part about your unhappiness over your roles and you both not being able to get your needs met in the relationship was not enough to end it.  You ended it over the money and the loss of trust and that to me is a very good reason to be hurt and shattered.  You see to have done everything you could have to make things right but it didn't work and now there is nothing left, no money, no love, no Domme.

No wonder you feel lost and sad.

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 4:44:49 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		You say this is all your fault... but that isn't what you mean. What you mean is... I am victim to her because I allowed her to do this to me. If it is your fault, you carry some or all of the blame for how things got to where they got to.

This was the fault of you both and you both will have to pay the price. Being bitter and angry over it all will mean that you don't heal and move on and it means you blame her. You are BOTH to blame. Ignorance in how being a switch is and how it is to live out life doing something that isn't okay for you in the long run and in trying to make something that wasn't going to work, work. Then there is the aspect of the money.

I have lived in the Denver area and know prices. A modest apartment and living is something you can do with the amount of money you both brought in but there had to be extra's. Like eating out or trips up the mountain or something. Shopping... whatever, there was more and you cannot tell me you didn't know about it.

Now I want you to consider this. How much would it cost you to live for one year and could you do that on 12 thousand? I dare say you could not do so very easily. In your mind you may be saying that you were her domestic and that is worth something. Yes it is... but I have never known a spouse and you were a spouse... that got paid. You lived a rather easy life on her forty thousand for the most part.

Yes, she may have over spent... on shit... but the fact is, you knew it all along... you had a choice, you took part and to cry foul now because she switched and could not keep her word to dominate you and over spent... is only going to ruin your chances for a future with someone else.

Pull up your big boy britches... go out and find a job that does pay and get to working on the situation. You are still talking taking the easy way out if you are considering a relationship with someone who will save you. If you only blame her... well... you deserve a little misery because you took part in this all the way through. Now face it and move on like a big boy.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 5:03:24 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan
The first chance I have to rent a cheap room or get into a knowingly temporary relationship with someone who wants to help me out I will be out the door.


I had not read your introductory post and was unaware that your arrangement had you stay at home with her as the primary wage earner, which, along with other details, makes the situation more confusing and complicated. It also seems your frustration or unhappiness might be causing you to see too one sided a view. In your introductory post you say you feel she has never dommed you even though she did dominate you for the first two or three years.

If you two have concluded that this relationship is over, I don't think seeking a temporary relationship with someone to support you is a good way to go for it might lead to further unhappiness for each person involved.

Perhaps doing limited work from home has you concerned about employment prospects. You said that if you had known that there were financial issues, you could have sought other forms of employment. If that path is still possible, I think it is safer to do that than to try to seek someone to temporarily support you.

Cheers,

Sea



(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 10/30/2009 5:11:37 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I think folks are looking at this from the standpoint that the wife was always a switch, knew she was a switch, etc.  That is one possibility.  The other is that she grew into having submissive yearnings over time.  We are talking about a number of years here.  Not all of us know that we want to chose just one roll or that we have no interest in the other right from the very beginning.  Sometimes, it's a case of experiencing one role, while your partner is experiencing the other, and saying to yourself, damn that looks really enjoyable!  (It's never happened to Me personally, but it has happened to others.)


ETA.  Very much in agreement with Sea.  Seeking an arrangement with another Domme for the food/shelter thing isn't likely to be a very good idea. 


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 10/30/2009 5:12:50 PM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 20
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