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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/2/2009 8:22:45 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
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Venatrix, as long as someone does some combination of topping/bottoming and/or dominating/submitting, whether with the same or different people, they're a switch. I disagree with a lot of Elisabella's ideas (especially paternity leave, stay-at-home-dads, and wanting society to put pressure on people to stay within specific gender roles), but that has nothing to do with her being a switch.

howakan, once she stopped dominating you in other ways, why didn't you re-evaluate staying home and giving her complete authority over the finances? At that point, it sounds like the D/s aspect was over already. I'm still not clear on whether you were only topping from the bottom in the first place, or if she originally dominated you, then decided she didn't wish to anymore. I'm a switch, and have been in relationships where I didn't switch at all for 5 and 3 years respectively, it really depends on the interaction with my partner. In my current relationship, I only submit to my Master, and top (and am a bit dominant toward) my female submissive playpartner. I can indulge both aspects, but in ways that doesn't make anyone who is involved with me uncomfortable, unfulfilled, or unhappy.

You need to get your life straightened out and untangled from your wife (if you choose to get divorced) before seeking someone new. Most women (Domme or not) figure if you'll cheat *with* her, you'll cheat *on* her as well, and don't want to deal with someone who has a partner who isn't on board with their looking.

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/2/2009 8:52:05 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
howakan, once she stopped dominating you in other ways, why didn't you re-evaluate staying home and giving her complete authority over the finances?


Isn't that "water over the dam" at this point?

As is often said, "hind sight is 20-20". It would seem the OP needs to move forward before spending time re-examining the past.

- pixel



_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/2/2009 3:13:18 PM   
howahkan


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Thanks Andalusite and pixelslave for your replies.

Andalusite, I'm about to give-up on this thread.  First, because of the help of people like Lockit, CarrieO and others I have been able to come to terms with my feelings.  Second, people like Elisabella and TexasMaam will soon turn this into a hack-em-up slice-n-dice the sub fun-fest.  I get so sick of flamers screwing-up threads.

So Andalusite let me explain the two aspects that I have come to terms with.  First the sexual aspect.  The thing that rings my bell is to be taken control of.  To lose power, authority and control.  It does not seem to matter what the Domme's rationalization for the domination is, sexual, humiliation, pure domination, they all seem to work.  Before we got together I spent three months explaining this to my now wife.

Beating up kids in school for making fun of me for not being able to read (I'm dyslectic), being in a street gang when I was a teenager (I'm a screw up), getting into fistfights in bars (I can be a real ass-hole) and running several business, I have dominated people my whole life.  When I turned forty I looked back at my life like most people do.  I looked for the things that made me the most happy and I decided to seek those things out.  I placed a very specific ad on the internet for a dominate woman to take total control of my life and my now wife answered that ad.

As many people have said in this thread, people change over time.  And as I wrote in my original post, "This is all my fault".  I have no problem with people being switches.  Hey, twice the fun for half the price. (grin)  PROVIDED ONE THING!  Both people are alright with that arrangement.  And as I have tried over and over again to explain to people in this thread who will not or do not want to listen, I am not alright with that.

The second aspect is trust.  Anyone can have financial problems.  It was the way it was handled.  One day my wife told me all of our savings were gone and all of our credit cards were maxed-out.  The total monthly payments due on the cards was $1200 a month but the credit card companies are now raising the interest rates and the amount next due was going to be $1320 a month for the minimum payment.  All of these numbers could be forgiven if it were not for one thing.  The money was not spent on rent, utilities, food, etc.  It was spent on DVD's books, commemorative plates, Ebay auctions and memberships to porn sites.  ALL JUNK!

People can make all the warm and fussy excuses for this they want.  When I was single I once lost $7000 in a poker game.  So I know what it is to piss-away money, I have done it myself.  What I have never done is piss-away family money, money that my family needed, putting them in debt.  No matter how someone slices-n-dices it this is a betrayal of trust.

How bad should it be before you leave?  I think I have found my answer.  I will continue to monitor this thread just in case someone has something genuine and helpful to add.  As for the flamers who will undoubtedly pontificate endless judgments, Blow-Me.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/2/2009 3:53:40 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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Okay howahkan I'm going to say this in the most neutral tone I possibly can.

Selling everything you own to move after knowing someone three months (and I am guessing that three months wasn't entirely face to face) is a risky proposition. Did you two start planning the wedding right after you moved there? I'm not saying it could never work, I moved really quickly for my fiance but I still had the option to move back with only minimal losses. But it is risky, and risk is something that either has a great payoff or great loss potential.

Handing over finances to your partner is not a bad thing in and of itself. Washing your hands of any interest or responsibility in YOUR OWN financial situation means you really have no right to cry foul when she did something you didn't want. Did you two discuss your opinion of debt before you handed over finances? It could be that she really saw no problem with credit card debt, and that doesn't mean she did something wrong, it just means that you two don't see eye to eye. Which is another reason why something that important should be discussed.

You blame her for not telling you. I wonder if she blames you for not asking her then getting mad.

I do think it's really sad that your marriage ended, but without knowing the whole situation I really can't determine if it's a betrayal of trust (ie, she knew without a shadow of a doubt you were opposed to credit card debt, you asked to be kept informed about the finances at the end of every month or year or whatnot, and she lied about it when you did ask) or if it's just a matter of two people having made mistakes that led to the end of their relationship.

And trust me when I say I'm not questioning this because she's a woman...I get my sounds-sketchy feelers out every time I read about a "bad Dom" who totally took advantage of a poor sweet innocent 50 year old sub on the other boards. It just never quite sounds right to me that it's all the other person's fault.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/2/2009 3:54:31 PM >

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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/2/2009 4:28:05 PM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

I have no problem with people being switches.  Hey, twice the fun for half the price. (grin)  PROVIDED ONE THING!  Both people are alright with that arrangement.  And as I have tried over and over again to explain to people in this thread who will not or do not want to listen, I am not alright with that.



Could it have been this mindset that got you into trouble in the first place?  If you were aware that your wife (or soon-to-be) identified as a switch, it should have come as no surprise when she felt a need to express that side of herself.  Yes, I'm aware you said she agreed to domme you...but was there an outlet in place for her to express her switchiness?  I'm also aware that not all switches are willing or able to switch with their regular partner, but to expect her to not acknowledge both sides and have an outlet in place for the expression of her sub side is ignoring the whole person.  It sounds as though you both chose to do this...to acknowledge only her dominant side.

Oh, btw, I take offense to the comment "Hey, twice the fun for half the price." I see this as a cop-out for people who don't want to take the time to understand the complexities involved with a person who identifies as a switch.  For some of us this is more than just play and kinky sex...and nothing half-priced whatsoever.

And with that, I'm done with this thread.  It brings to mind a dog chasing it's tail...too many circles for me.

_____________________________

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(in reply to howahkan)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/3/2009 4:09:00 AM   
allthatjaz


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I'm not sure what you were looking for? you started a thread that has turned into a debate and with a debate you have to take on all opinions. You say that you blame yourself and yet you continually blame your wife. You say that your getting out of the marriage and yet your thread title asks 'how long should I stay?' You already know that answer and I'm pretty sure that whatever has been said here hasn't changed your opinion one jot because you already knew you were leaving.

This is one side of a story and its all about you and how awful its been for you.

I'm out of here too.

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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/3/2009 5:19:17 AM   
howahkan


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Joined: 10/13/2009
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quote:

CarrieO

Oh, btw, I take offense to the comment "Hey, twice the fun for half the price."

I did not mean to offend anyone.  I apologize...

(in reply to CarrieO)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/3/2009 3:09:13 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
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From: P'burgh PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

The glue that holds all relationships together, including the relationship between the leader and the led is trust and trust is based on integrity.

~ Brian Tracy

The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.

~ Ernest Hemingway

A good marriage is at least 80 percent good luck in finding the right person at the right time. The rest is trust.

~ Nanette Newman


I wont comment on the rest because you've been given a great deal of sage advice from many people. What I will so is share with you something I learned in childhood. I was taught that every relationship is based on four corner stones or building blocks.

Trust
Honesty
Love
Respect

Any relationship, whether it be D/s, vanilla, work, family or friends, it can be visualized as a building. Every experience and every year is like adding another floor to that building. The foundation must be strong and stable in order to support each additional floor. If the foundation is solid that edifice can grow infinitely. Remove any one of those corner stones from the foundation and the building, just like the relationship, will crumble to the ground.


_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 6:19:29 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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fr

quote:

What I have never done is piss-away family money, money that my family needed, putting them in debt. No matter how someone slices-n-dices it this is a betrayal of trust.


I'm going call bullshit on this. You wrote that you smoke too much, drink too much and you're 150 pounds overweight, so, obviously, you eat too much. Just take one of those things.. say .. the smoking. What's too much? A pack a day? One pack a day for 9 years = $13,000. That's almost half the debt. Your wife has 4000 books and hundreds of DVD's to show for it all .. what do you have besides diabetis and, possibly, a future carting around an oxygen tank? Every time you took a drink or stuck a cig in your mouth, you were pissing away family money. No matter how much someone slices-n-dices, you contributed to the debt with your own form of junk. Books and DVD's.. those are things the whole family can enjoy. Your cigs, alcohol and food are something that only *you* enjoyed. I wonder who was the member of all those porn sites.. you or the wife?

You are ending the marriage because of a betrayal of trust? She didn't tell you that cigs, alcohol and McD's cost money? You didn't see the CD cases and book shelves slowly filling up over the years? You know exactly what your income is (we all do because you told us.. $40,000 a year for her, $12,000 or so a year for you). Knowing exactly how much income you had, knowing exactly what it was being spent on, the only betrayal here is that you stuck your head in the sand and are now using the blindfold YOU put on yourself as an excuse to get off the gravy train now that the fuel is empty and the piper has to be paid.

You want out, get out.. but call a spade and spade and have some intellectual honesty about the whole thing. She didn't betray you at all by keeping information from you. The information was there for the taking if you had only chosen to open your eyes and see it. Play victim all you want, make her the bad guy.. whatever it takes to let you sleep at night, but what you are trying to sell, I'm certainly not buying and if a kick in the reality ass is being mean, so be it. Others have made comment calling it tough love. I have no love, tough or otherwise for you, just calling it like I see it based on what you've posted.

You're 52 years old, smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much - 300 lbs of manchild who refused to see what was right in front of him and it's all her fault because she didn't explain the real world to you and tell you that your cigs, alcohol and trips to Burger King actually require $.

Yeah, right.




_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 6:55:02 AM   
LaTigresse


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Oh damn.........what Bita said!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 7:24:36 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

fr

quote:

What I have never done is piss-away family money, money that my family needed, putting them in debt. No matter how someone slices-n-dices it this is a betrayal of trust.


I'm going call bullshit on this. You wrote that you smoke too much, drink too much and you're 150 pounds overweight, so, obviously, you eat too much. Just take one of those things.. say .. the smoking. What's too much? A pack a day? One pack a day for 9 years = $13,000. That's almost half the debt. Your wife has 4000 books and hundreds of DVD's to show for it all .. what do you have besides diabetis and, possibly, a future carting around an oxygen tank? Every time you took a drink or stuck a cig in your mouth, you were pissing away family money. No matter how much someone slices-n-dices, you contributed to the debt with your own form of junk. Books and DVD's.. those are things the whole family can enjoy. Your cigs, alcohol and food are something that only *you* enjoyed. I wonder who was the member of all those porn sites.. you or the wife?

You are ending the marriage because of a betrayal of trust? She didn't tell you that cigs, alcohol and McD's cost money? You didn't see the CD cases and book shelves slowly filling up over the years? You know exactly what your income is (we all do because you told us.. $40,000 a year for her, $12,000 or so a year for you). Knowing exactly how much income you had, knowing exactly what it was being spent on, the only betrayal here is that you stuck your head in the sand and are now using the blindfold YOU put on yourself as an excuse to get off the gravy train now that the fuel is empty and the piper has to be paid.

You want out, get out.. but call a spade and spade and have some intellectual honesty about the whole thing. She didn't betray you at all by keeping information from you. The information was there for the taking if you had only chosen to open your eyes and see it. Play victim all you want, make her the bad guy.. whatever it takes to let you sleep at night, but what you are trying to sell, I'm certainly not buying and if a kick in the reality ass is being mean, so be it. Others have made comment calling it tough love. I have no love, tough or otherwise for you, just calling it like I see it based on what you've posted.

You're 52 years old, smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much - 300 lbs of manchild who refused to see what was right in front of him and it's all her fault because she didn't explain the real world to you and tell you that your cigs, alcohol and trips to Burger King actually require $.

Yeah, right.





This. And it was nice to see he was using all that flexible time as stay-at-home slave to stay healthy for himself and for his lady.

Above anything else, if my man, who does not work outside the house, started to get out of shape or lazy, he'd be in a world of hurt from me, and not the fun kind.  If I am going to give him the luxury of not having to worry about being the breadwinner, then at the top of his list is going to be taking great care of his body.

I'm also wondering why the OP never learned to cook. If he was the home-slave he should have been learning to cook healthy, both for him and for his lady.  And if being "at home" is your career, so to speak, then you must look at it like ANY job and make yourself valuable and marketable with that time you have.  Learning skills, making yourself invaluable, becoming the best at what you do - in case your lady disappears, passes away or dumps you. Now he's single with no marketable skills - whose fault is that?

Akasha


_____________________________

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(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 10:12:16 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

fr

quote:

What I have never done is piss-away family money, money that my family needed, putting them in debt. No matter how someone slices-n-dices it this is a betrayal of trust.


I'm going call bullshit on this. You wrote that you smoke too much, drink too much and you're 150 pounds overweight, so, obviously, you eat too much. Just take one of those things.. say .. the smoking. What's too much? A pack a day? One pack a day for 9 years = $13,000. That's almost half the debt. Your wife has 4000 books and hundreds of DVD's to show for it all .. what do you have besides diabetis and, possibly, a future carting around an oxygen tank? Every time you took a drink or stuck a cig in your mouth, you were pissing away family money. No matter how much someone slices-n-dices, you contributed to the debt with your own form of junk. Books and DVD's.. those are things the whole family can enjoy. Your cigs, alcohol and food are something that only *you* enjoyed. I wonder who was the member of all those porn sites.. you or the wife?

You are ending the marriage because of a betrayal of trust? She didn't tell you that cigs, alcohol and McD's cost money? You didn't see the CD cases and book shelves slowly filling up over the years? You know exactly what your income is (we all do because you told us.. $40,000 a year for her, $12,000 or so a year for you). Knowing exactly how much income you had, knowing exactly what it was being spent on, the only betrayal here is that you stuck your head in the sand and are now using the blindfold YOU put on yourself as an excuse to get off the gravy train now that the fuel is empty and the piper has to be paid.

You want out, get out.. but call a spade and spade and have some intellectual honesty about the whole thing. She didn't betray you at all by keeping information from you. The information was there for the taking if you had only chosen to open your eyes and see it. Play victim all you want, make her the bad guy.. whatever it takes to let you sleep at night, but what you are trying to sell, I'm certainly not buying and if a kick in the reality ass is being mean, so be it. Others have made comment calling it tough love. I have no love, tough or otherwise for you, just calling it like I see it based on what you've posted.

You're 52 years old, smoke too much, drink too much, eat too much - 300 lbs of manchild who refused to see what was right in front of him and it's all her fault because she didn't explain the real world to you and tell you that your cigs, alcohol and trips to Burger King actually require $.

Yeah, right.






(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 10:35:09 AM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
on and on and on and on. It's a dead thread folks.

My Colossal Mistakes
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2884109/tm.htm


< Message edited by howahkan -- 11/4/2009 10:39:33 AM >

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 7:33:57 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
It's only a dead thread when the readers say so!

I don't think they're quite done with it, yet.

Ditto, Bitatrouble.

Grow up, howahkan. Avoid jumping off blindly into yet another relationship until you are out of debt and over yourself.


TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 11/4/2009 7:37:01 PM >


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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/4/2009 8:05:23 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: howahkan

on and on and on and on. It's a dead thread folks.

My Colossal Mistakes
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2884109/tm.htm



Maybe if you came back to this thread and took some responsibility for your part in this mess - real, heartfelt responsibility - instead of subtly (or not) blaming your wife for everything, people would stop ganging up on you.  Your colossal mistake isn't posting on CM, it's endlessly playing the victim.

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/5/2009 8:50:35 AM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Venatrix

Maybe if you came back to this thread and took some responsibility for your part in this mess - real, heartfelt responsibility - instead of subtly (or not) blaming your wife for everything, people would stop ganging up on you.  Your colossal mistake isn't posting on CM, it's endlessly playing the victim.


I would like to do exactly as you suggest, however, at this point I feel that anything I post will only garner more hard feelings. It's not worth it.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/5/2009 9:07:36 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
Dude, you just do not get it do you......

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to howahkan)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/5/2009 9:13:50 AM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Dude, you just do not get it do you......


You're right, I don't get it. I give up.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/5/2009 9:50:23 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
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Just as a quick aside on "switchitude", confined somewhat to this context:

As many dommes can tell you, the submissive side of a person often comes out more intensely when they are facing a lot of emotional stress related to responsibility. Submitting in private is one of the ways that people cope with the burden of responsibility and leadership; when they're at work or even in the vanilla family context, a lot of male subs face a great burden--one of the reasons they feel the need to submit to a woman in the bedroom is because they need to lay those burdens aside and let someone else do the driving, be the center of topping attention, and just STOP THINKING ABOUT the things that weigh on them for a while.

We've all heard of those submissive CEO's and captains of industry, and even outside that super-elite context I think most dommes have met subs who have very responsible, very authoritative and high-pressure jobs where they have to exercise a lot of power--lawyers, business owners, doctors, cops, soldiers--whose submissive side expresses itself much much more strongly when the pressure is turned up to BE LARGE AND IN CHARGE at work.

I can't help wondering if the Switch woman in this case is such a person. It sounds as if the pressure has been ramping up, ramping up, ramping up for quite a while now, as the economy and credit system have collapsed, the family has been living beyond its means, etc etc.. At the same time, her submissive side in the bedroom is pretty much all she wants to express now--having to be solely responsible for the couple's sex life is more than she can stand, she only seeks relief from that kind of stress these days.

I can't help but speculate that in the case of a person who genuinely has both elements to their BDSM personality, that it may be that she feels more "domme" when life is better and easier, and her other burdens are lighter. For a lot of folks, submissive/bottom sexuality has an element of escapism to it--maybe if she didn't have so much she needed to escape from...?

I also hadn't realized initially that the OP was 150 pounds overweight--has this been the case since the beginning of the relationship? Because if not, it's sadly possible that the OP's partner is simply not attracted to him anymore, and he doesn't stir her dominant feelings for that reason. Most dommes need to feel phyical attraction for a partner before they have the urge to dominate, and very few human beings have a range of physical attraction that swings as far as 150 pounds off the mark. The simple fact of the matter which I have seen in countless relationships is this: when you decide to "let yourself go", you are also letting your partner go.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 11/5/2009 9:52:35 AM >


_____________________________

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-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to howahkan)
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RE: How bad should it be before you leave? - 11/5/2009 10:39:31 AM   
howahkan


Posts: 137
Joined: 10/13/2009
Status: offline
I reply to ShaktiSama's reference to my weight beinng the problem here is a photo of us both. Me on the left, her on the right.  She is 200 lbs overweight. Her weight has never bothered me. The fact is I think she is attractive at any weight. I am not so superficial and shallow as many on this board to think that simply because someone is overweight it somehow automatically makes them unattractive . I said my being overweight was a result of my obsessive-compulsive nature. Theories are great so long as you keep your facts straight. You are twisting the facts to fit your half-baked theories.  Yet another post designed to hurt people instead of help.  I am sorry you don't like fat people.  You're missing out on a lot of nice people in the world.  Me excluded of course.







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