RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 9:56:05 AM)

Not you specifically LP,but to the dubious idea that money spent on Foreign Aid is a  waste not worthy of America's efforts while whatever is spent on munitions is well spent....as long as we can blow all the other bastards to hell and back.
Hows the old saying go....butter before bullits.Semms to me some have twisted that shit around.




tazzygirl -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 10:04:22 AM)

quote:


Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
....
The additional tax does not apply if the maintenance of acceptable coverage would result in a hardship to an individual or if the person's income is below the threshold for filing a federal income tax return.



quote:

You must file a return if your gross income is more than the threshold for your filing status. You also must file a return if certain other situations (see "Other Situations," below) apply. Even if your gross income is below the filing requirement, you must file a return to receive any refund to which you are entitled.

Gross income is all income subject to tax, unreduced by any losses you've incurred. Gross income includes earned income (such as wages, salaries and self-employment income), and unearned income (such as interest, dividends and capital gains).


No One Claims You as a Dependent
If someone else can't claim you as a dependent, you must file a tax return if any of the following apply.

Your filing status is Single and you're either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $8,950 or more
65 or older with gross income of $10,300 or more

Your filing status is Married Filing Jointly and you are any of the following:
you are both younger than 65 with a combined gross income of $17,900 or more
only 1 spouse is 65 or older and together you have a combined gross income of $18,950 or more
you are both 65 or older with a combined gross income of $20,000 or more

Your filing status is Married Filing Separately and you are any age with gross income of $3,500 or more.

Your filing status is Head of Household and you are either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $11,500 or more
65 or older with gross income of $12,850 or more

Your filing status is Qualifying Widow(er) with dependent children and you are either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $14,400 or more
65 or older with gross income of $15,450 or more


http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_tips/tax_planning/doyoufile.html?ttiptitle=Filing%20Requirements

quote:

In 2008, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$11,201; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$21,834.[6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_threshold

quote:

Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some point within a 10 year time span.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Now, taking these numbers into consideration... exactly how many people will be affected? Your article made it sound like all americans would be subject to these penalties and fines. Yet the letter itself indicates that the penalties are not for all. Your Ways and Means committee release stated the following...

quote:

The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]



The above quotes show this isnt true. Another scare tactic by not laying out the complete truth.

quote:

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.


Again, not true.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583





LadyPact -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 10:12:45 AM)

The munitions issue is a separate debate. 

When I see our American men and women serving there country abroad all having adequate health care......

When I see our Veterans not have to fight to get the benefits they sacrificed for.....

When I stop hearing stories about how there are no medical supplies.....

When I stop reading reports about how deplorable conditions are for some, even at places like Walter Reed......

Then, maybe then, I'll feel more generous when it comes to the health care issue for illegal immigrants.

Until that happens, I will absolutely continue to say that we need to take care of our own first.




slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 10:29:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The munitions issue is a separate debate. 

When I see our American men and women serving there country abroad all having adequate health care......

When I see our Veterans not have to fight to get the benefits they sacrificed for.....

When I stop hearing stories about how there are no medical supplies.....

When I stop reading reports about how deplorable conditions are for some, even at places like Walter Reed......

Then, maybe then, I'll feel more generous when it comes to the health care issue for illegal immigrants.

Until that happens, I will absolutely continue to say that we need to take care of our own first.

All of your points are granted LP....but what you seem to be missing here is that in Popeyes world view all foreign aid packages are akin to original sin.
I agree with you wholeheartedly those who wear this countries uniforms deserve nothing but the best.....and it is downright criminal when they don't recieve the care they so richly deserve upon returning from combat deployments.
But this is not at this point an either or question...Foreign Aid serves a purpose...despite Popeyes ramblings...he would rather disregard that purpose and/or minimize it...I prefer not to let those ramblings go unchallenged....I assure you it was Popeyes buttons being pushed...not yours.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 10:31:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:


Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
....
The additional tax does not apply if the maintenance of acceptable coverage would result in a hardship to an individual or if the person's income is below the threshold for filing a federal income tax return.



quote:

You must file a return if your gross income is more than the threshold for your filing status. You also must file a return if certain other situations (see "Other Situations," below) apply. Even if your gross income is below the filing requirement, you must file a return to receive any refund to which you are entitled.

Gross income is all income subject to tax, unreduced by any losses you've incurred. Gross income includes earned income (such as wages, salaries and self-employment income), and unearned income (such as interest, dividends and capital gains).


No One Claims You as a Dependent
If someone else can't claim you as a dependent, you must file a tax return if any of the following apply.

Your filing status is Single and you're either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $8,950 or more
65 or older with gross income of $10,300 or more

Your filing status is Married Filing Jointly and you are any of the following:
you are both younger than 65 with a combined gross income of $17,900 or more
only 1 spouse is 65 or older and together you have a combined gross income of $18,950 or more
you are both 65 or older with a combined gross income of $20,000 or more

Your filing status is Married Filing Separately and you are any age with gross income of $3,500 or more.

Your filing status is Head of Household and you are either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $11,500 or more
65 or older with gross income of $12,850 or more

Your filing status is Qualifying Widow(er) with dependent children and you are either of the following:
younger than 65 with gross income of $14,400 or more
65 or older with gross income of $15,450 or more


http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_tips/tax_planning/doyoufile.html?ttiptitle=Filing%20Requirements

quote:

In 2008, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$11,201; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$21,834.[6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_threshold

quote:

Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some point within a 10 year time span.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Now, taking these numbers into consideration... exactly how many people will be affected? Your article made it sound like all americans would be subject to these penalties and fines. Yet the letter itself indicates that the penalties are not for all. Your Ways and Means committee release stated the following...




since the tax filing threshold is below the poverty threshold, and since 13-17% are below the poverty threshold, about 90% of all taxpayers would be affected.




popeye1250 -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 11:20:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

welcome to the forums. I hope you have a thick skin. Liberals outnumber conservatives here by about30 to 1..mike


Servant, that sounds like a fair fight to me!
Especially when one considers all the so called independants that loiter in these here parts.....independants who seem to hold staunchly conservative viewpoints minus the balls to cop to it.


Mike, "staunchly conservative viewpoints?"
I believe in gay marriage and would be "bestman" at PaHunk's wedding if he asked me.
I believe in women's rights.
I believe in legalising pot.
I hated George Bush, and Clinton as well.
I believe in freedom of choice.
I want to see BOTH the Dem and Repub parties go extinct.

Oh yeah, I'm a real "staunch" conservative alright!
You know liberals aren't so bad it's just that the "lefties" try to attach themselves to the Democratic Party and give them all a bad name just like the "righties" do to the Repubs.
President Obama is more conservative than I am!
He's the one bailing out big banks, stockbrokers, and big insurance cos all of which I'm against.
As for "foreign aid" conservatives love foreign aid, the lobbyists on K street and big business make tens of billions of dollars off of it.
And don't forget the Mercedes Benz dealers! And there's a Merdedes Benz dealer in every country in the world *because* of "foreign aid."
Lobbyists belong to country clubs they're not "neighborhood activists."
"Foreign aid" is a ***classic*** example of an out of control big govt program!
I just don't want my govt. involved in such things. There's so much GRAFT in it.
You should read up on how "foreign aid" *really* works! It's like *legalised stealing* while wearing an $800 Hickey-Freeman suit!




slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 11:29:50 AM)

Now now Popeye...what makes you think that one was pointed at you?
Some conservative skeletons in your closet?
When I want to tweak your nose....I will do so directly ala Foreign Aid.




popeye1250 -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 3:02:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now now Popeye...what makes you think that one was pointed at you?
Some conservative skeletons in your closet?
When I want to tweak your nose....I will do so directly ala Foreign Aid.


Mike, "foreign aid" is neither a "liberal" nor a "conservative" issue.
It is bad management, bad policy, and an out and out waste and theft of the Taxpayer's money. It's a white collar scam!
Sure I'm "conservative" when it comes to my government spending my money, who isn't? Any citizen would want to see us get the most bang for our buck right? There are simply too many people and companies who are *"set for life"* as long as the "foreign aid spiggott" remains open!
Take a ride through the Washington, D.C. suburbs in Virginia sometime and check out the palaces those people live in paid for with our Taxdollars!
Or Maryland and check out the horse farms they own! It's obscene is what it is.
Those Bastards should be in prison cells right next to Bernie Madoff!




tazzygirl -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 3:06:17 PM)

Yet conservatives dont question what the CEO's and upper executives of wall street and insurance companies live in.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 3:13:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet conservatives dont question what the CEO's and upper executives of wall street and insurance companies live in.


why should they?




slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 3:15:48 PM)

Nor the compensation of executives in the Defence Industry.
Better more Foreign Aid and less military adventures....much cheaper.
Popeye what you never allow for...hell you won't even recognise is 1)It is not just Humanitarian(though it certainly at times fills that role) it is also buying friends and influence in areas where we have National Security interests 2) That is a lot cheaper than parking an armored division in someone else's backyard.




tazzygirl -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 3:39:32 PM)

Here are two articles i found concerning the Affordable Health Care for America Act

Groups that support Affordable Health Care for America Act

Its quite a list...

and this one

Health Care Reform Bill Detailed Summary

Note the information about illegal aliens.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 5:33:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Here are two articles i found concerning the Affordable Health Care for America Act

Groups that support Affordable Health Care for America Act

Its quite a list...

and this one

Health Care Reform Bill Detailed Summary

Note the information about illegal aliens.



illegal aliens..no change = no enforcement = de facto coverage




LadyPact -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:07:24 PM)

Maybe I missed something, tazzygirl.  The only thing that I found in the second article regarding immigrants was this:

Eligibility. Affordability credits are available to American citizens and legal residents whose employers do not offer coverage or whose share of employer-sponsored health insurance costs more than 12 percent of their family income. Those eligible for other government health care programs, such as Medicare or Medicaid, cannot receive affordability credits. Establishes a mechanism by which the Commissioner must verify that individuals are citizens or legal immigrants in order to receive affordability credits.

Which doesn't mean the American people are going to stop footing the bill for the medical care of illegal immigrants.  It just means they won't get the credits.  We'll still be paying this, over and above any reform.




tazzygirl -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:11:48 PM)

"Prohibitions on Medicaid and CHIP payment for undocumented immigrants. Provides that the Medicaid title does not change current prohibitions against Federal Medicaid or CHIP payments for persons not lawfully present in the U.S."

This is what i was referring too, LP. And, unless its pointed out elsewhere, it sounds like if you arent eligible for medicaid, you have to pay for your insurance. So its not a free ride for them.




kittinSol -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:16:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Mike, "foreign aid" is neither a "liberal" nor a "conservative" issue.
It is bad management, bad policy, and an out and out waste and theft of the Taxpayer's money. It's a white collar scam!



But it's okay to exploit Nigeria's oil reserves and to not compensate its people for the privilege: it's quite fine to let corrupt foreign governments force their people to suffer from exploitation for their immediate gain.

It's okay to supplant natural agriculture with cheap coffee beans, cocoa and cotton for the benefit of multinational corporations, to the detriment of the local economies (and much to the glee of those that profit from famine and hunger, including charities).

It's perfectly fair to pillage poorer countries' natural resources for the spurious benefit of capitalistic gain and to continue whining against "them" profiteering from "us".

Yeah, right [>:] .




slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:35:16 PM)

Kittin ...yanno Might makes right.




kittinSol -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Kittin ...yanno Might makes right.



Might Makes Shit Happen. Us that are so into WIITWLTD, let's remember that MMSH.




slvemike4u -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:43:19 PM)

awww dammit to hell Kittin when I see you get mad....I just want to lay across your lap and help you work out your aggressions.[:)]




Vendaval -> RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills (11/7/2009 7:43:22 PM)

tazzygirl,

Thank you for the additional information.

As a side issue, in the experiences my family has had with AARP it has been a very beneficial organization for senior citizens and their families.  AARP offers numerous hotel, motel, rental car and gym discounts, travel, ADT security systems, prescription drug coverage, all types of insurance and even a Legal Services Network and assistance in applying for federal, state and other benefits.

http://products.aarp.org/psd_list/?intcmp=BB4_HOMEPAGE_102609

http://www.aarp.org/about_aarp/aarp_foundation/programs_services/public_private_benefits.html










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